We were discussing Wave 7 upgrades at the store and came up with something we all liked, and I would like to bounce it off of the FFG Forums.

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

But what if the fix for the X-wing is a title upgrade that add's and extra torpedo slot.

Title:

T65B

1 pts

Add one hull and extra torpedo slot.

This allows an instant fix, and allow the X-wing to have access to Extra Munitions.

Were thinking they will do something like this to boost the X-wing, especially since the Proton Torpedo and X-wing are always referenced in the movies. Plus Major Juggler stated, "He believes the way to fix the X-wing is a Hull upgrade.

Which according to this card, would basically cost 1 for hull upgrade and 0 for extra torpedo slot.

Do you think FFG will do something like this for X-wing to become unique again?

What do you think?

eagletsi111

That looks like all gain, no sacrifice to me. You're basically paying 1 point for a 20% increase in durability, and the "cost" is born in IF you choose to equip it with munitions.

A "fix" like Chaardan Refit has both gain and sacrifice (the missile slot).

Seems weak. You're now paying the same points cost as a Blue Squadron Pilot for a ship that is still less durable and less maneuverable (lack of Barrel Roll) but slightly faster.

X-Wing is currently a glass cannon ship, adding 6 points of Torpedos to it will only skew it further in that direction and make it even more costly when your 28 point Rookie dies in 1-2 rounds of concentrated fire.

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

Technically it can. Equip the card and place a token on it. Easy.

It's a completely legal waste of two perfectly good points.

Although an extra hull would be nice, the added price for the title (1), extra munitions (2) AND the torpedo (2-6) is not an attractive option. I'd prefer a title that adds an extra hull and another action such as evade, boost or barrel roll. In another thread the S-Foil action was mentioned which isn't a bad idea,

A "fix" like Chaardan Refit has both gain and sacrifice (the missile slot).

That's a pretty small sacrifice... Giving up a slot on one uses anyway. Plus the X1 title for the Advanced doesn't cost a thing or take up a useful slot. Not unless they come out with another title for the Advanced anyway.

The Chardaan doesn't really require a sacrifice moreso than it just makes all missiles cost +2 points on an A-Wing.

That's why Proton Rockets seem so amazing on A-Wings for 3 points, it's because they actually cost 5 points on an A-Wing.

A fix shouldn't really require the ship to sacrifice something meaningful, then it's not really a fix, it's just another upgrade option. That's why I don't like OP's idea, the 1 point is a steep price to pay for something the X-Wing should already have for free.

I'd rather see an X-Wing only Torpedo upgrade that cost -1 point that allowed you to discard it to discard a face down damage card at the end of the round.

A "fix" like Chaardan Refit has both gain and sacrifice (the missile slot).

That's a pretty small sacrifice... Giving up a slot on one uses anyway. Plus the X1 title for the Advanced doesn't cost a thing or take up a useful slot. Not unless they come out with another title for the Advanced anyway.

Also, giving up the missile slot on an A-Wing makes a lot of sense when the Z-95 is a much better missile platform. Even without the Refit, if I want to run darned near any missile, I'm not looking at A-Wings to do it with.

And so the A-Wing fix was rather smart: take away an option that had become even more devalued, and give back points, plus an extra EPT slot to allow players to further customize their speed demons.

The "free Hull Upgrade" needs to cost 0, not 1, for the Rookies to still be worth considering vs a B-wing. Biggs and Wedge are another story entirely.

The "free Hull Upgrade" needs to cost 0, not 1, for the Rookies to still be worth considering vs a B-wing. Biggs and Wedge are another story entirely.

I don't think it would be a huge issue if Biggs and Wedge (and Tarn) became tournament staples as a result of a universal X-Wing buff. We saw something similar happen with Soontir and Interceptors when autothrusters came out, where non-Soontir Interceptors are now pretty good in competitive play again, but Soontir Fel is just head-and-shoulders above any other Interceptor Pilot in the game. I don't think the X-Wing as a ship should be held back because a couple of its pilots happen to be very good.

I don't expect to see an x-wing upgrade, till the T-70 from episode VII comes out.

I don't expect to see an x-wing upgrade, till the T-70 from episode VII comes out.

Not much chance of it happening any other way. Would FFG be willing to just make T-70 a title?

Would love to see an X-wing bump but I don;t think the torpedo slot is going to be the way to do it.

My vote (seen others propose the same), title that decreases the cost of a modification by three.

Now, if you wanna get nuts, don't include the minimum of zero clause. Munitions Failsafe for -2 points? Yes, Please!

Seems weak. You're now paying the same points cost as a Blue Squadron Pilot for a ship that is still less durable and less maneuverable (lack of Barrel Roll) but slightly faster.

X-Wing is currently a glass cannon ship, adding 6 points of Torpedos to it will only skew it further in that direction and make it even more costly when your 28 point Rookie dies in 1-2 rounds of concentrated fire.

Wow, the X-Wing is a glass cannon? How would you describe most TIEs then since most of them do not have shields and a single crit can put an end their abilities if they even have any?

C-3po unofficially made anything without 8 health a glass cannon. I heard someone describe the defender as a glass cannon in a another thread.

Seems weak. You're now paying the same points cost as a Blue Squadron Pilot for a ship that is still less durable and less maneuverable (lack of Barrel Roll) but slightly faster.

X-Wing is currently a glass cannon ship, adding 6 points of Torpedos to it will only skew it further in that direction and make it even more costly when your 28 point Rookie dies in 1-2 rounds of concentrated fire.

Wow, the X-Wing is a glass cannon? How would you describe most TIEs then since most of them do not have shields and a single crit can put an end their abilities if they even have any?

X-wings are a glass cannon because the ratio of their firepower to durability is greater than the TIE Fighter's firepower to durability ratio by about 40%.

Seems weak. You're now paying the same points cost as a Blue Squadron Pilot for a ship that is still less durable and less maneuverable (lack of Barrel Roll) but slightly faster.

X-Wing is currently a glass cannon ship, adding 6 points of Torpedos to it will only skew it further in that direction and make it even more costly when your 28 point Rookie dies in 1-2 rounds of concentrated fire.

Wow, the X-Wing is a glass cannon? How would you describe most TIEs then since most of them do not have shields and a single crit can put an end their abilities if they even have any?

It's a foot soldier. Its not threatening enough on its own to be worth shooting at. That's why it is so durable. The X-Wing, by contrast, is a ship that can do a lot of damage if left alone. So people aim at them first. And they get taken out fairly quickly.

The only time we've seen more than a single ordnance slot on a ship is on fighter-bombers and heavier - the Y-Wing, B-Wing, TIE Bomber, etc. Even the E-Wing, which is described as being able to carry a large payload, only has a single torp slot.

I highly doubt we'll ever get more than a single torpedo slot on the X-Wing, as it isn't thematically appropriate - at Yavin, the Y-Wings were the primary attackers, with the X-Wing attack runs being a last-ditch effort. Throughout the books, X-Wings are there to provide fighter cover while heavier fighters attack. X-Wing proton torpedoes are only there as a redundant back-up for a strike force, and aren't there as part of the primary role of the fighter.

Soontir Fel is just head-and-shoulders above any other Interceptor Pilot in the game.

Carnor Jax disagrees.

Seems weak. You're now paying the same points cost as a Blue Squadron Pilot for a ship that is still less durable and less maneuverable (lack of Barrel Roll) but slightly faster.

X-Wing is currently a glass cannon ship, adding 6 points of Torpedos to it will only skew it further in that direction and make it even more costly when your 28 point Rookie dies in 1-2 rounds of concentrated fire.

Weak? His suggestion gives a Hull Upgrade (which cost 3 points!) + a torpedo slot. It is in fact too powerful.

I would be happy with that title (hull and torp).

I prefer the reduced cost for a modification but I would not mind an extra torp slot as hull would be my go to modification.

as a title it does seem a bit to good, I can stack it with Hull upgrade.

I would be happy with that title (hull and torp).

I prefer the reduced cost for a modification but I would not mind an extra torp slot as hull would be my go to modification.

as a title it does seem a bit to good, I can stack it with Hull upgrade.

Well you could add the phrase. Cannot take a Hull Upgrade Modification

A "fix" like Chaardan Refit has both gain and sacrifice (the missile slot).

That's a pretty small sacrifice... Giving up a slot on one uses anyway. Plus the X1 title for the Advanced doesn't cost a thing or take up a useful slot. Not unless they come out with another title for the Advanced anyway.

I was going to disagree with the relevance of your point til I checked the actual spoiled card, and saw that it includes a 4 point discount to the sensor. So, good point. I was thinking it just added a sensor slot to your upgrade bar that you would then have to spend points on.

Extra Munitions works well as is. Bombers up to now lack the agility and fire power per points to be effect stand alone. Once you start putting munitions on them they quickly become more expensive then their survivability can justify. Extra Munitions fixes that by allowing Bombers to load up at a considerably cheaper cost. Fighter/Bombers such as the B-wing and Y-wing can still see a bonus from this upgrade. These ships are better with the upgrade even though without munitions they can still hold their own. Fighters work well with or without munitions and don't need the upgrade to hold their own.

Despite all the fervor about how the X-wing needs to be fixed, it is still a stand alone fine fighter. Players are moving away from it not because it can't hold its own, but because it doesn't have any easy gimmicks. If you look at wave 7 release you will notice that at face value the Kihraxz Fighter is in many ways a cut and paste of the X-wing. This brings mid range versatility the Rebels get with the X-wing and the Empire are going to get with Tie Advanced, to the Scum faction

Totally disagree on the gimmicks comment.

The B-Wing is just such an objectively better ship for the same cost. B-Wing can be gimmicky but even stock is just such a solid ship it pushes out the X-Wing. Just look at BBBBZ.

X-Wing doesn't need a gimmick, it needs a reason to be taken. Right now the B-Wing does everything the X-Wing does, but better and it does other stuff for the same cost.

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

Technically it can. Equip the card and place a token on it. Easy.

It's a completely legal waste of two perfectly good points.

Technically it can't, as you say put the token on the Extra munitions card because the tokens are the extra munitions, the tokens go on the actual torpedo/missile/bomb upgrades. With just the Extra Munitions the token stays in the token bin. Jeez, I can't believe 5 people liked your faulty reasoning.

The Chardaan doesn't really require a sacrifice moreso than it just makes all missiles cost +2 points on an A-Wing.

That's why Proton Rockets seem so amazing on A-Wings for 3 points, it's because they actually cost 5 points on an A-Wing.

A fix shouldn't really require the ship to sacrifice something meaningful, then it's not really a fix, it's just another upgrade option. That's why I don't like OP's idea, the 1 point is a steep price to pay for something the X-Wing should already have for free.

I'd rather see an X-Wing only Torpedo upgrade that cost -1 point that allowed you to discard it to discard a face down damage card at the end of the round.

The first part of what you are saying makes no sense, as though you've completely misread the card, because the Chadaan refit is -2 points not +2 points, and it uses up the missile slot, so it's not bringing the cost of Proton Rockets down to 3 from 5. Sorry to tell you but you've been using that card all wrong and need to reread it.

We were discussing Wave 7 upgrades at the store and came up with something we all liked, and I would like to bounce it off of the FFG Forums.

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

But what if the fix for the X-wing is a title upgrade that add's and extra torpedo slot.

Title:

T65B

1 pts

Add one hull and extra torpedo slot.

This allows an instant fix, and allow the X-wing to have access to Extra Munitions.

Were thinking they will do something like this to boost the X-wing, especially since the Proton Torpedo and X-wing are always referenced in the movies. Plus Major Juggler stated, "He believes the way to fix the X-wing is a Hull upgrade.

Which according to this card, would basically cost 1 for hull upgrade and 0 for extra torpedo slot.

Do you think FFG will do something like this for X-wing to become unique again?

What do you think?

eagletsi111

If you add an extra torpedo slot to the X-wing you can have two torpedoes

If you use the Extra Munitions card in one of the torpedo slots you get...

wait for it...

two torpedoes

what the hell are you smoking man?

I like the title card idea for the X-wing but not for ordinance.

Specific Squad leader title cards that give bonuses to the squadron would be way better.

Red Squadron Leader

Rogue Squadron Leader

etc.

I don't think trying to turn the X-wing into a K-wing is the right direction.

If you want to play with X-wing fixes there's a long list of variants here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/X-wing_starfighter

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

Technically it can. Equip the card and place a token on it. Easy.

It's a completely legal waste of two perfectly good points.

Technically it can't, as you say put the token on the Extra munitions card because the tokens are the extra munitions, the tokens go on the actual torpedo/missile/bomb upgrades. With just the Extra Munitions the token stays in the token bin. Jeez, I can't believe 5 people liked your faulty reasoning.

Extra munitions is a torpedo upgrade card. It orders you to place an ordnance token on every torpedo upgrade card. Therefore you have to place an ordnance token on the extra munitions card. Which part of that reasoning, exactly, do you consider faulty?

Placing ordnance tokens on extra munitions and bomb loadout is stupid but technically mandatory.