I cannot say this enough, the Rebels need to do 2 things to win.

1) stay at long range. Look at the comparison of Neb B vs VSD.

Front:

Neb B: 3 Red dice

VSD: 3 Red dice

Sides:

Neb B: 1 Red dice

VSD: 2 Red dice

Rear:

Neb B: 2 Red dice

VSD: 2 Red dice

You have ALMOST the same firepower. When it comes to defense, the Neb has an evade and 2 braces, the VSD has 2 redirects and 1 brace. The Neb can take almost as heavy a shelling as the VSD, provided they are at Range 3.

2) Fighters

In the core box, the Rebels have the advantage when it comes to fighters. Standard Xwings vs Standard Ties, the Xwings take it. Now if you can use your commands to issue Squadron Commands, they will mop the floor with the TIEs. Then they can jump the Star Destroyer. Also do not be afraid to use your ships to shoot down TIEs. I always manage to throw some damage with my Neb B onto the TIEs and then finish them off with squadron commanded Xwings.

Honestly I don't get why people feel the Armada core set is so much inferior to the X-Wing core set. I feel completely and vehemently the opposite. I think the Armada core set is more balanced and a much better gaming experience than the X-wing core set was.

I played the x-wing core set ONCE before I went and got more ships so that I could feel like I was having the full experience. I've played both 180pt and 300pt games of armada and don't feel like the 180pt games lag very much behind the full version.

I have noticed the cards for the VSD's make them far superior and I do love the game. Dominator is a huge one; especially when coupled with Gunnery officer which means you can get 2 shots from the front arc. I think the way around it is to 'decoy' it to go after one ship while the others manoeuvre behind it. Easier said than done if like me you have 2 core sets.

Objectives on 1 core set do change the whole game into rebel territory; especially if you have higher points than the imps. some of the objectives mean then that you put them down and so put them nearer your side, which can mean then you've grabbed the lot before the vic can get near them.

edit: I also HATE that there isn't much room for rerolls in this game. In X-wing, you have multiple ways of modifying dice. If you have 4 dice with TL + F, you can expect 3+ damage easily. Here, it's sometimes all, sometimes nothing. You kill Tie Fighters on 1HP with 4 hits, you whiff all rolls on undamaged Ties. It's crazy! I would have preferred less dice with more rerolls, but I get why they went with this.

I whole-heartedly approve of this. To be fair, I come from more of an Attack Wing background, where there is so much dice fixing that one of my mates was able to roll 7 attack dice every turn, and gaurentee, GAURENTEE, 6 hits or crits. And the seventh was pretty likely.

I would rather be ruled by the dice gods. They have always hated me, but every now and again, they smile pon me.

2) Fighters

In the core box, the Rebels have the advantage when it comes to fighters. Standard Xwings vs Standard Ties, the Xwings take it. Now if you can use your commands to issue Squadron Commands, they will mop the floor with the TIEs. Then they can jump the Star Destroyer. Also do not be afraid to use your ships to shoot down TIEs. I always manage to throw some damage with my Neb B onto the TIEs and then finish them off with squadron commanded Xwings.

In my experience, Ties decimate X-wings. It's not even funny. 6 squadron vs. 4, SWARM ability, HOWLRUNNER ability. If the Imperial player has Initiative and takes a squadron command (with a matching token from Tarkin), that's just icing on the cake. Or perhaps my rolls are just abysmal. 4 dice with 1 reroll consistently kill my X-wings, while my return fire is mediocre at best. People should take into account that a dice reroll at 4 dice is almost like an extra dice, since the chances of you rolling only hits is very small. I need the Nebulon to just even the odds, and that's taking into account I don't roll poorly. The only time I get to actually fire on the VSD and not be engaged is when I use the squadron command + token (a bit harder to do on the Nebulon), to attack it directly, and that's just setting the X-wings up to be slaughtered by Ties the following turn.

People consistently say the Rebels are fine. It's ok, probably I haven't "got it" yet. I'll try to switch sides, I have been the Rebel player for the first 6 games. I have yet to see a battle report with pictures showing a Rebel win which didn't count on extremely good dice on the Rebel part though (at 180pts). My only win with the Rebels so far was done by killing Ties.

To: "Really Trying to Like Armada..."

Do or do not, there is no try.

Sorry, it was begging to be said.

on the topic of dice fixing and re-rolls:

Concentrate Fire token (Exacerbated by Tarkin and soon by Raymus)

Swarm

Leading Shots

to name a few

To: "Really Trying to Like Armada..."

Do or do not, there is no try.

Sorry, it was begging to be said.

I am a

2) Fighters

In the core box, the Rebels have the advantage when it comes to fighters. Standard Xwings vs Standard Ties, the Xwings take it. Now if you can use your commands to issue Squadron Commands, they will mop the floor with the TIEs. Then they can jump the Star Destroyer. Also do not be afraid to use your ships to shoot down TIEs. I always manage to throw some damage with my Neb B onto the TIEs and then finish them off with squadron commanded Xwings.

In my experience, Ties decimate X-wings. It's not even funny. 6 squadron vs. 4, SWARM ability, HOWLRUNNER ability. If the Imperial player has Initiative and takes a squadron command (with a matching token from Tarkin), that's just icing on the cake. Or perhaps my rolls are just abysmal. 4 dice with 1 reroll consistently kill my X-wings, while my return fire is mediocre at best. People should take into account that a dice reroll at 4 dice is almost like an extra dice, since the chances of you rolling only hits is very small. I need the Nebulon to just even the odds, and that's taking into account I don't roll poorly. The only time I get to actually fire on the VSD and not be engaged is when I use the squadron command + token (a bit harder to do on the Nebulon), to attack it directly, and that's just setting the X-wings up to be slaughtered by Ties the following turn.

People consistently say the Rebels are fine. It's ok, probably I haven't "got it" yet. I'll try to switch sides, I have been the Rebel player for the first 6 games. I have yet to see a battle report with pictures showing a Rebel win which didn't count on extremely good dice on the Rebel part though (at 180pts). My only win with the Rebels so far was done by killing Ties.

From my experience, Swarm narrows the gap somewhat, but X-Wings still have a significant advantage over TIEs, especially if they can fire first.

The advantage of the X-wings, I've personally found, is mainly due to the Neb Escort being a baller

Before those anti-squadron shots, I was really wondering why in god's name those sides were so long...

To: "Really Trying to Like Armada..."[/size]

Do or do not, there is no try.

Sorry, it was begging to be said.

And was, nearly 4 hours previously...

on the topic of dice fixing and re-rolls:

Concentrate Fire token (Exacerbated by Tarkin and soon by Raymus)

Swarm

Leading Shots

to name a few

To: "Really Trying to Like Armada..."

Do or do not, there is no try.

Sorry, it was begging to be said.

I am a

LOL, I was sooo late on this. I honestly didn't get past the first page before thinking and posting it...then I read yours. /HANDS UP! "I'll tip her!"

In my experience, Ties decimate X-wings. It's not even funny. 6 squadron vs. 4, SWARM ability, HOWLRUNNER ability. If the Imperial player has Initiative and takes a squadron command (with a matching token from Tarkin), that's just icing on the cake.

When using a token/oder dial to execute a Squadron command you activate each squadron seperately. If you spread out a little your opponent should only be able to engage 1 squadron at a time and thus only benefit from swarm here and there. I think you can also put some pressure on the Ties by jinking the Neb B to have the fighters positioned to the side if they engage.

The other question is, are you in a rush or playing to the same tempo each game? If your opponent uses a Squadron Command on turn 3 each game the hang back and wait for turn 4 if you can. With a 3 turn lead your opponent really shouldn't be that lucky in getting the drop on you every game.

It also sounds like you are flying into the middle of a swarm, just go to the edge and shoot 1 tie, then fly to the next and so on.

We have the same problem locally here, VSD's with Tarkin are constantly taking repair commands, and using the offensive co-ordinator to switch a tokent hat Tarken has already given a bunch to either do squadrons or concentration fire (Depending on the need) or using repair itself, its incredibly hard to get a VSD down like that.

Even flying right at them with 2 core sets ... its much easier to have both VSD's focus fire and kill a nebulon B quickly...

I've shelved the game given up on it until wave1 and even then ... my original "MUST HAVE ALL THE SHIPS" has turned into "Will buy a couple for rebels and see how it plays out"

Hell really I don't even want to play rebels but almost 75% of the local meta is Imps

In my experience, Ties decimate X-wings. It's not even funny. 6 squadron vs. 4, SWARM ability, HOWLRUNNER ability. If the Imperial player has Initiative and takes a squadron command (with a matching token from Tarkin), that's just icing on the cake.

When using a token/oder dial to execute a Squadron command you activate each squadron seperately. If you spread out a little your opponent should only be able to engage 1 squadron at a time and thus only benefit from swarm here and there. I think you can also put some pressure on the Ties by jinking the Neb B to have the fighters positioned to the side if they engage.

The other question is, are you in a rush or playing to the same tempo each game? If your opponent uses a Squadron Command on turn 3 each game the hang back and wait for turn 4 if you can. With a 3 turn lead your opponent really shouldn't be that lucky in getting the drop on you every game.

It also sounds like you are flying into the middle of a swarm, just go to the edge and shoot 1 tie, then fly to the next and so on.

Thanks for this advice, I was hoping to get a response like yours!

We're playing differently each round, trying out different things. I can generally position my X-wings so he can't engage them in a single turn. Preferrably I would get in range of the VSD in one movement. The problem is I usually want an engagement with the VSD on the side that's out of shields, and because the X-wings have speed 3 they clump up to make that shot. This should happen in turn 3-4, otherwise I don't

Should I engage the swarm instead? If I engage the swarm at the edges, if they use a squadron command they'll just swarm with the Fighters that were out of range..

In my experience, Ties decimate X-wings. It's not even funny. 6 squadron vs. 4, SWARM ability, HOWLRUNNER ability. If the Imperial player has Initiative and takes a squadron command (with a matching token from Tarkin), that's just icing on the cake.

When using a token/oder dial to execute a Squadron command you activate each squadron seperately. If you spread out a little your opponent should only be able to engage 1 squadron at a time and thus only benefit from swarm here and there. I think you can also put some pressure on the Ties by jinking the Neb B to have the fighters positioned to the side if they engage.

The other question is, are you in a rush or playing to the same tempo each game? If your opponent uses a Squadron Command on turn 3 each game the hang back and wait for turn 4 if you can. With a 3 turn lead your opponent really shouldn't be that lucky in getting the drop on you every game.

It also sounds like you are flying into the middle of a swarm, just go to the edge and shoot 1 tie, then fly to the next and so on.

Thanks for this advice, I was hoping to get a response like yours!

We're playing differently each round, trying out different things. I can generally position my X-wings so he can't engage them in a single turn. Preferrably I would get in range of the VSD in one movement. The problem is I usually want an engagement with the VSD on the side that's out of shields, and because the X-wings have speed 3 they clump up to make that shot. This should happen in turn 3-4, otherwise I don't

Should I engage the swarm instead? If I engage the swarm at the edges, if they use a squadron command they'll just swarm with the Fighters that were out of range..

I play mostly imperial (because I leave the choice to my opponents and they prefer being "good guys" for some weird reason). The most trouble I have is if my opponent manages to tempt me into pushing my ties too close to his capital ships. Where an X-Wing laughs about one or two dice Anti Squadron armament for Ties they are deadly. This is even worse if he successfully tempts me into commiting my ties out of range of squadron commands, which can be surprisingly short ranged compared to the Ties movement range. 2 Escort Frigates can easily deal with a Tie Swarm without even needing X-Wing Support. If they have it and maybe a squadron command or, force beware, initiative, then the ties are dead.

I play mostly imperial (because I leave the choice to my opponents and they prefer being "good guys" for some weird reason). The most trouble I have is if my opponent manages to tempt me into pushing my ties too close to his capital ships. Where an X-Wing laughs about one or two dice Anti Squadron armament for Ties they are deadly. This is even worse if he successfully tempts me into commiting my ties out of range of squadron commands, which can be surprisingly short ranged compared to the Ties movement range. 2 Escort Frigates can easily deal with a Tie Swarm without even needing X-Wing Support. If they have it and maybe a squadron command or, force beware, initiative, then the ties are dead.

I agree, Escort Frigates are quite good against Ties, but I only have one (at 180pts with one Core set). I also get one good shot on a clump of Ties per game before they decimate my X-wings, so it's luck all the way (although I do try to pair it with a Concentrate Fire command, which brings me to 3 blue dice).

I play mostly imperial (because I leave the choice to my opponents and they prefer being "good guys" for some weird reason). The most trouble I have is if my opponent manages to tempt me into pushing my ties too close to his capital ships. Where an X-Wing laughs about one or two dice Anti Squadron armament for Ties they are deadly. This is even worse if he successfully tempts me into commiting my ties out of range of squadron commands, which can be surprisingly short ranged compared to the Ties movement range. 2 Escort Frigates can easily deal with a Tie Swarm without even needing X-Wing Support. If they have it and maybe a squadron command or, force beware, initiative, then the ties are dead.

I agree, Escort Frigates are quite good against Ties, but I only have one (at 180pts with one Core set). I also get one good shot on a clump of Ties per game before they decimate my X-wings, so it's luck all the way (although I do try to pair it with a Concentrate Fire command, which brings me to 3 blue dice).

You are aware that using a Concentrate fire Command on an attack against Squadrons only gives you the extra dice for one of those attacks against one of those squadrons, right?

As to "Just the Core game":

At 180 points just don't even try to take out the Victory. Focus all your firepower on taking out ties while protecting your X-Wings as much as possible and maybe grab a few points via objectives.

I definitely don't have to try to like this game, I love it. Like others have said however, it is frustrating to play just core set 180 point games. Really, more like boring, in my opinion. Boring in so much that you can see on the horizon that there will be more and interesting option to use as Wave 1 and future waves release.

The current core set battles are still good to play though if you like the game, if for nothing else than to get fluid with the rules. There are a lot of nuances. Becoming proficient with maneuvers and methods to attack your opponent and win are worth mastering.

Also, like many have said, as the Rebels, you have to use your strengths to your advantage. Rebels can go in guns blazing, but really only when they are all together and the are being selective with their targets. The Rebels in the Core Set just can't enter into a bar room brawl with the imperials and think they are going to come out on top. They are not.

I play mostly imperial (because I leave the choice to my opponents and they prefer being "good guys" for some weird reason). The most trouble I have is if my opponent manages to tempt me into pushing my ties too close to his capital ships. Where an X-Wing laughs about one or two dice Anti Squadron armament for Ties they are deadly. This is even worse if he successfully tempts me into commiting my ties out of range of squadron commands, which can be surprisingly short ranged compared to the Ties movement range. 2 Escort Frigates can easily deal with a Tie Swarm without even needing X-Wing Support. If they have it and maybe a squadron command or, force beware, initiative, then the ties are dead.

I agree, Escort Frigates are quite good against Ties, but I only have one (at 180pts with one Core set). I also get one good shot on a clump of Ties per game before they decimate my X-wings, so it's luck all the way (although I do try to pair it with a Concentrate Fire command, which brings me to 3 blue dice).

You are aware that using a Concentrate fire Command on an attack against Squadrons only gives you the extra dice for one of those attacks against one of those squadrons, right?

As to "Just the Core game":

At 180 points just don't even try to take out the Victory. Focus all your firepower on taking out ties while protecting your X-Wings as much as possible and maybe grab a few points via objectives.

I was going to argue that it still counts as one attack (which it does), but you add the extra die in an intermediate step, not in the beginning. Concentrate fire is almost useless against squadrons then.

Our local group has decided to shelve Armada until more ships are available.

It is just not all that fun compared to X-Wing (in our opinion) in its current state.

We will be back!

Cya in a few months

HNN has the scoop:

Rebellion in Despair; Resistance Useless

The game is great. It has a lot of potential.

But the scope is extremely limited due to the range of ships, and it won't be until after wave 2 (IMO) that we really start to get the most out of it.

To draw an analogy, it's like we're playing chess but we only have the pawns and bishops.

You could prove it, and FFG still shouldn't do anything about it. Core Sets do not strive to be or need to be balanced. It be a waste to address something that will be a non-issue in the coming weeks. It isn't as if there are Regionals for Armada.

I don't get your point, why shouldn't they be balanced? I think the appeal for X-wing started because the Core set was incredibly fun and somewhat balanced, at least a lot more than this.

No it wasn't XWing core set is awfu armada you can build two full size lists. XWing not even close.

You could prove it, and FFG still shouldn't do anything about it. Core Sets do not strive to be or need to be balanced. It be a waste to address something that will be a non-issue in the coming weeks. It isn't as if there are Regionals for Armada.

I don't get your point, why shouldn't they be balanced? I think the appeal for X-wing started because the Core set was incredibly fun and somewhat balanced, at least a lot more than this.

No it wasn't XWing core set is awfu armada you can build two full size lists. XWing not even close.

What do you mean by "full-size"? Standard tournaments will be 400pts once wave 2 hits. The Core set doesn't even come close, not to mention that you're stuck with 1 ship vs. 2 ships, which is *exactly* the way X-wing was. The difference is in X-wing player skill and luck could swing the game both ways, whereas here it seems to me like the Imperial player just has to lay back and not do critical mistakes with his Ties (because there's very *very* little chance of someone dropping the Victory in 6 rounds at 180 pts with just the Core.

I admit, I MIGHT pick me up some rebels and ditch my Vicky Squadron idea, and take some AF2's in a line of battle. Front one is a tank with engineering commands and tokens every turn, then the second one being the command ship, and third bringing up the rear with either the carrier role or a line grunt. Or the second one can be a fleet carrier... Hmm.

I might need more than 300 points...

But I like my "Line of Battle" idea.

Rebels just seem more fun to play, due to the quirks with their ships.