I'm surprised they didn't put anything in to increase damage if one of the ships is moving at speed 4 or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a ramming oriented upgrade card down the line that did something to that effect.

Anyone remember Operation Ram's Head?

No ramming?

Thousands of klingon commanders diasagree, violently.

I think the ramming rules are fine. They bring another layer of strategy to the game. It's really gratifying to have a Neb or Corvette ram a VSD on it's last hull point and take it out before it can shoot, even if you have to sacrifice the rebel ship in the process. In fact, to me, that makes it even more awesome.

Rules like "You must avoid a collision is possible when executing a move" just bog the game down. As it is currently, when your opponent begins his move, says 'Well, I guess we collide. My speed drops to 0 and we both take a damage", you can believe he's either making a mistake or deliberately doing it, but it doesn't matter as far as game flow is concerned. With some kind of anti-collision rule, individual ship moves can turn into "Hey, if you turn like this, you'll clear the ship!" "No, it won't, see how it would clip here?" "Nah, do the actual move like that and you'll see that it's clear." "Now you've moved the ships and we can't know what the exact position is anymore...", etc, etc.

That's not the kind of game I'd want to play.

WE HAD ONE OF THESE HAPPEN. Sorry for the caps but I want to really get your attention:

Basically: we had the healing station obstacle very close to one side. The VSD then tried to move 1 or 2 slight through it, but a CR90 was on top of it. And since there was "obstacle" between us, we could not shoot at each other. (At least, that's what the guy who was rules-guru-ing said.

So we just, sat there and bumped for 3 turns, while the CR90 regained each damage it too, and yeah.

Rules Guru was wrong. The obstacle merely obstructs the shot, so you have to remove one die of your choice from the pool when you attack.

RRG, p8, "Obstructed"

"An attack is obstructed if line of sight is traced through an obstacle token or another ship that is not the defender. If an attack is obstructed by one or more ships or obstacles, the attacker must choose and remove one die from his attack pool before he rolls dice during the “Roll Attack Dice” step."

Edit: Also the Corvette would be taking 2 damage per round. One when it runs into the Vic and one when the Vic runs into it. Dito for the Vic. The Station would only heal one of the two.

Thanks. He did say there were a lot of rules and it was only his 3rd time playing. So, it was just an honest mistake. He was nice and very welcoming. (And I still won!)

Yes, we were both taking 2 damage a turn, and the Corvette was healing one each turn....

Does that happen? I feel like some reading of the rule says its when you get onto it. Once you're on it it doesn't do it over and over again every turn.

Otherwise its super easy: as Imperials, bid for initiative. Set the healing station near 1/3 of the way on the field in the corner on your side. Park your damnably hard to kill VSD on it. Profit if they try and come near you. Or even heck, just try flying around avoiding the stuff for 6 turns.

WE HAD ONE OF THESE HAPPEN. Sorry for the caps but I want to really get your attention:

Basically: we had the healing station obstacle very close to one side. The VSD then tried to move 1 or 2 slight through it, but a CR90 was on top of it. And since there was "obstacle" between us, we could not shoot at each other. (At least, that's what the guy who was rules-guru-ing said.

So we just, sat there and bumped for 3 turns, while the CR90 regained each damage it too, and yeah.

Rules Guru was wrong. The obstacle merely obstructs the shot, so you have to remove one die of your choice from the pool when you attack.

RRG, p8, "Obstructed"

"An attack is obstructed if line of sight is traced through an obstacle token or another ship that is not the defender. If an attack is obstructed by one or more ships or obstacles, the attacker must choose and remove one die from his attack pool before he rolls dice during the “Roll Attack Dice” step."

Edit: Also the Corvette would be taking 2 damage per round. One when it runs into the Vic and one when the Vic runs into it. Dito for the Vic. The Station would only heal one of the two.

Thanks. He did say there were a lot of rules and it was only his 3rd time playing. So, it was just an honest mistake. He was nice and very welcoming. (And I still won!)

Yes, we were both taking 2 damage a turn, and the Corvette was healing one each turn....

Does that happen? I feel like some reading of the rule says its when you get onto it. Once you're on it it doesn't do it over and over again every turn.

Otherwise its super easy: as Imperials, bid for initiative. Set the healing station near 1/3 of the way on the field in the corner on your side. Park your damnably hard to kill VSD on it. Profit if they try and come near you. Or even heck, just try flying around avoiding the stuff for 6 turns.

If you are at speed zero, then you cannot spend defense tokens. I believe if you are under fire even one spend of a brace token every round will save you at LEAST as much damage as the Station would heal. Also the station only heals damage cards, so by the time it starts helping you you have already wasted all your shields without getting to spend defense tokens.

A Vic without Defense tokens goes down in 3-4 medium range and 4-6 long range attacks from the rebels.

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Accidental collisions should be very accidental, unless the Captain of a ship intended it to happen. So looking at DnD: AttackWing, they use a rule that creatures in different planes (altitudes) can move their figures just past the subject figure if they want to. Yes this does allow someone to really leap frog in movement distance.

Similarly, for two star ships, if the end movement would overlap and thus cause a collision, the movant should have the option of continuing to move past the subject ship, in a straight line, until the movant is completely past and clear of the ship.

3D space combat on a 2D map has always had limits. I just cannot see collisions happening accidentally as often as represented in the game unless the ships are intentionally at close quarters.

Maybe roll a dice, if a critical is rolled, a collision happens, otherwise move past until clear. Now which dice is rolled, hmm?

So far the game has been fun, and I am sure everyone has their opinion about everything.

the less dice, the better

collision rules are perfectly fine from a gameplay perspective since it both incentivizes and discourages collisions during specific situations, both further emphasizing positioning and adding variety to gameplay

Because you can basically pre-measure your maneuvers, collisions are never "accidental." They're either a product of choice or lack thereof (in which case the ship forced to ram got hemmed in)

At this point in the game, I think collision rules are fine too.

I personally would like to see some refinement to the ramming rules. It should absolutely be possible to ram, but I feel damage should be tied more to the size class of the ships involved. For example base ram damage should be 1 damage point as it is now, but with an additional +1 damage per size discrepancy. So a corellian corvette (small) would do 1 damage to an Imperial star Destroyer (large), but suffer 3 damage in return. That same Star Destroyer ramming an Assault Frigate MkII (medium) should do 2 points of damage to it and suffer 1 damage in return etc.

not so much refinement there are added complexity, which would be a good way to balance the mechanic if it was at all in need of balancing

As is, though, it seems ramming is a really good way of pushing those last few points of damage through a Victory's wall of redirects and repairs

Victory, by contrast, doesn't need any help at all

Sort of reminds me of the silliness of the millennium fortress in xwing.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/12205573#12205573

Seems like it would make sense if two ship ram twice in a row then you place the ship on the other side or something. Realistically ramming repeatedly probably isn't a problem, but I certainly have rammed intentionally to keep the frontal arc of my VSD where I want it.

I personally would like to see some refinement to the ramming rules. It should absolutely be possible to ram, but I feel damage should be tied more to the size class of the ships involved. For example base ram damage should be 1 damage point as it is now, but with an additional +1 damage per size discrepancy. So a corellian corvette (small) would do 1 damage to an Imperial star Destroyer (large), but suffer 3 damage in return. That same Star Destroyer ramming an Assault Frigate MkII (medium) should do 2 points of damage to it and suffer 1 damage in return etc.

Would be a bad idea. It would allow ISD to deal way too much damage. It already have more hull, big enough advantage.

the problem with these fluff analogies is that the thing you're imaging by "ramming" isn't really happening in the context of the game, just like in the silly Squadron size and Squadron command debates

Despite the 2d gameplay, battles are supposed to be taking place in 3d space. What actually happens when a ship has to reduce its maneuver to avoid overlapping doesn't necessarily have to be two ships going BONK!

It could be dangerous exchange of very close fire, or having to pull off a very strenuous maneuver to avoid contact, or brushing past each other in George Carlin's definition of collision

"They say when two planes almost collide, it's a near-hit. bull, my friends. It's a near-hit. A collision is a near-miss!"
"Look! They nearly missed!"
"yes, but not quite."

If (and big IF) I was going to make any change I would just make it one point per size level that you do, to account for the extra mass that you have. But if you try to add to much I think you end up takeing away from the game. So over all I would just leave it the way it is.

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Actually, the fluff supports the close-in nature of Star Wars combat. If you watch Episode 3, or any of the Clone Wars episodes, the ships are always (relatively) very close together.

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Actually, the fluff supports the close-in nature of Star Wars combat. If you watch Episode 3, or any of the Clone Wars episodes, the ships are always (relatively) very close together.

Take evasive action!

<roOOOOR! roOOOOR!>

Armada retcon:

We only have one yaw click available!

I told you we should have activated the other Star Destroyer first!

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Actually, the fluff supports the close-in nature of Star Wars combat. If you watch Episode 3, or any of the Clone Wars episodes, the ships are always (relatively) very close together.

Take evasive action!<roOOOOR! roOOOOR!>Armada retcon:We only have one yaw click available!I told you we should have activated the other Star Destroyer first!

Why do we move 1 at a time anyway? That's almost as dumb as our ridiculous, impossible to aim blasters.

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Actually, the fluff supports the close-in nature of Star Wars combat. If you watch Episode 3, or any of the Clone Wars episodes, the ships are always (relatively) very close together.

Take evasive action!<roOOOOR! roOOOOR!>Armada retcon:We only have one yaw click available!I told you we should have activated the other Star Destroyer first!

Why do we move 1 at a time anyway? That's almost as dumb as our ridiculous, impossible to aim blasters.

Well, it's better than moving half at a time

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Actually, the fluff supports the close-in nature of Star Wars combat. If you watch Episode 3, or any of the Clone Wars episodes, the ships are always (relatively) very close together.

Take evasive action!<roOOOOR! roOOOOR!>Armada retcon:We only have one yaw click available!I told you we should have activated the other Star Destroyer first!

Why do we move 1 at a time anyway? That's almost as dumb as our ridiculous, impossible to aim blasters.

Most people only have two hands.

I think with the 3D aspect of space and vast distance, ramming should be far far more rare. This is not a bumper car environment.

Actually, the fluff supports the close-in nature of Star Wars combat. If you watch Episode 3, or any of the Clone Wars episodes, the ships are always (relatively) very close together.

If you read the books, just a couple kilometers is pretty long range for starfighters. Capital ships might be fighting at 10's of kilometers at most. Point blank in the context of space.

Honestly how many major tv or film franchises involving space combat that haven't had a ship intentionally ram another ship at some point?

Firefly. Wait no! Wash gets a spaceship to the chest.

This is how i see it.:

The thing that bugs me more than anything is the fact that you're moved back a full "speed" pip - there's a gap between your ship and mine; how did you ram me?

I feel like you should either be left touching base to base (as with X-wing) or overfly in a straight line off the other side (as in D&D Attack wing) - grinding together for several turns makes little sense to me.