So I Played a 300pt game last night, and a situation arose where 2 neb Bs were nose to nose onto a VSD, all three ships at speed 1 and with less than a speed 1 distance between them.

Rammaing insued, for 3 turns, as none of the ships had the speed or manouvrablity to clear its opponent. So they just sat there and butted heads.

Finally, my opponent managed to ramp up the off centre Neb B to speed 3, but said he was going to jink it in and ram again from the side.

The Vic blew up before then, and its companion swooped in with gunnery team to blow both Neb Bs away with its front arc. However it did raise some concerns as to the validity of the ramming rules.

We concluded that if a ship can perform a manouvre that can avoid a ram at their current speed they must.

If they cant avoid it the ram happens.

if the ram is to repeat next turn due to ships positions and set speeds,they should be forced to change their command dials to navigate in order to clear the collision as quickly as possible in order to get back to the business of SHOOTING each other

I dunno, I just don't see it as a viable tactic for rebels to face plant in front of a star destroyer. Like you mentioned, your second victory ended up clearing out both frigates, so that had to be a net gain for you on points.

Not to mention ramming is an actual tactic used in the starwars fluff

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kamikaze

I don't think you can take away the ability to ram, accidentally or otherwise. Not only is it a legitimate danger, it ups the ante on black dice since getting in range means risking a collision. Furthermore, I think the occasional sacrifice ram might be a fun holy $@#* tactic. Ideally sportsmanship keeps it from being a go-to tactic.

I kind of wish there was a formula for such things, based on size base and speed. Frankly a single damage trade isn't that big a deal if I have 2-3 corvettes to kamikazie you with. A part of me wants some logic of smaller ship always loses to bigger ship outright, though still causing damage. Something like:

L destroys M destroys S, instant. But S automatically deals 3, M deals 6, L deals 8. So a M can hit a small and destroy it but it also takes 3 damage no questions.

Probably too complicated but it's my whimsy idea. Punishes the smaller ship but still costs the larger so it's a real hard trade. Also, if you destroy a ship by ramming it, no points are counted toward the final victory because pfffft!

In one of the X-wing books an Interdictor reversed it's gravity well to push other ships away. That would be neat. It isn't meant for that and it strained the system. So maybe push all ships in range 1 away some but receive one damage, shield or hull as needed.

Um.... the VSD didn't fire at all during this time? And the Neb b survived 2 turns of fire at close range from the VSD? and the VSD survived 2 turns of fire from the NEBs?

I had a game with just the core box "Learn to play". the Corvette came into long range of the VSD, then moved to close range, before the VSD moved it was down to one Hull left, and was destroyed in a ram by the VSD. So much for diplomatic immunity. The VSD ended up with 2 or 3 hull damage

No, i think the rules are just fine. If you are ramming, you both are going to lose

Your house, your tabletop home rules!

Adjust ramming as you guys see fit...

I don't think you can take away the ability to ram, accidentally or otherwise. Not only is it a legitimate danger, it ups the ante on black dice since getting in range means risking a collision. Furthermore, I think the occasional sacrifice ram might be a fun holy $@#* tactic. Ideally sportsmanship keeps it from being a go-to tactic.

I kind of wish there was a formula for such things, based on size base and speed. Frankly a single damage trade isn't that big a deal if I have 2-3 corvettes to kamikazie you with. A part of me wants some logic of smaller ship always loses to bigger ship outright, though still causing damage. Something like:

L destroys M destroys S, instant. But S automatically deals 3, M deals 6, L deals 8. So a M can hit a small and destroy it but it also takes 3 damage no questions.

Probably too complicated but it's my whimsy idea. Punishes the smaller ship but still costs the larger so it's a real hard trade. Also, if you destroy a ship by ramming it, no points are counted toward the final victory because pfffft!

My favorite mission in X-wing vs Tie Fighter(Balance of Power) mission was when a corvette laden with explosives blows away most of a super star destroyer by ramming its bridge.

Sure the corvette “lost” but that mechanic is much worse than dealing a single damage card to the rammed ship. It should stay in the game.

I wish for two things for it:

1) Damage is relative to the speed of both ships

2) There was a brace for impact effect. IE, engineering commands reduce damage on impact.

I'd rather see it be a dice roll that auto-bypasses shields.

And have it be based on relative ship sizes.

1 size difference in bases collide (eg Small & Medium, or Medium & Large), the smaller ship rolls a Blue die, larger a Red die.

2 size difference in bases collide (eg Small and Large), smaller ship rolls a Black die, larger a Red die.

Same size bases collide, Both roll Blue dice

This provides some degree of randomness to it, it is no longer a sure thing to attempt a ram - AND - now smaller less expensive ships may not be as effective against larger ships, but still have a chance of pulling off a Crit or a double Hit.

Could add to the rule that the person being collided with suffers a hit on Accuracy results as well - or that Accuracy counts as a Hit.

How can two ships survive for 3 rounds in the front arc of a Vic while also each getting 2 automatic hull damage every round from the ramming? (1 hull damage from the Neb B moving into the Vic and 1 from the Vic moving into the Neb B. That alone is 6 hull damage for one Neb B without the Vic firing at it once...)

Nebs were at close range in a Vic's front arc, and neither of them died after three turns, until one of the Nebs was "able to reach speed 3"?

I...question the validity of this scenario. : ) Were you perhaps using X-Wing rules by mistake, and saying since the ships were 'touching', they couldn't shoot each other? Because in Armada, they totally can.

I will add to the majority opinion: ramming rules are fine as is. When played properly and/or *highly unlikely* outlier scenarios aren't strawman-argumented in the way.

Edit: For the record, I'm assuming there's an honest mistake here somewhere, not a deliberate strawman construction. ; )

the ships weren't touching, they were sitting at less than speed 1 away from each other, thus not able to complete any manouvres at their set speeds.

Oh, and it was due to TERRIBAD rolling on my behalf that the Neb Bs survived so long in front of my VSD1. once the other VSD2 rocked up it Tarkined the frak out of them.

I am not saying to remove the damage component of ramming at all, I am calling for a tweek so that ships at low speeds just park in front of each other and CANNOT move as they cannot complete a manouvre due to the opposing ships position.

Maybe something like after a ram has happening, the ramming ship is placed on the opposite side of the rammed ship, touching bases.

Its just to keep the fight flowing and not turn into a parking lot

Personally I find the ramming rules fine. Very elegant, very streamlined so they don't bug down the overall flow of the game. With the give ships its efficacy is bent toward the Rebels but it's far from a winning tactic. It can be useful at times - to finish of a VSD or keep it from moving into a scoring zone. But as people post any current Rebel ship will disintegrate in the blink of an eye when stuck in a VSDs forward firing arc at short range.

I think of a couple of rounds of ramming (3 sounds a little much) as the ships slowly grinding together (which would bypass the shields per rules). They keep firing because not all the guns would be damaged in the grind. Just makes sense in my mind.

One of the favourite moments I have in this game so far is blasting a Neb-B with the front guns of my Vic. The tricksy little bugger survived with 1 hull point left... SO I RAN THE BASTARD OVER!

Please leave collision rules alone, It's fun crushing damaged fragile Rebel ships with undamaged Imperial goliaths.

"I brake for no one!"

Bumper Sticker from the back of the Spaceballs ship.

I don't like the idea of ships not being able to move indefinitely due to hear on collisions, so how about on the second occurrence the ship is moved past the obstacle instead of back but still taking the hit?

I don't like the idea of ships not being able to move indefinitely due to hear on collisions, so how about on the second occurrence the ship is moved past the obstacle instead of back but still taking the hit?

this is what I am after!

I am not saying remove the collision rules, just tweek them so that ships can flow through afterwards and continue fighting, otherwise it just turns into a carpark if they havent got the speed to clear the ship they hit on their next move

I've already voiced my opinion on collisions in another thread so I won't go back into it again but the other day I had an idea -

On the first turn of the collision you temporarily reduce the ships speed by 1 as per the rules. On the next turn it collides with the same ship again you can temporarily increase the ship's speed by 1.

If you can produce a speed command at the same time you should be able to clear the other ship.

Of course you take damage on the turns you would have collided but at least the game doesn't become a parking lot.

WE HAD ONE OF THESE HAPPEN. Sorry for the caps but I want to really get your attention:

Basically: we had the healing station obstacle very close to one side. The VSD then tried to move 1 or 2 slight through it, but a CR90 was on top of it. And since there was "obstacle" between us, we could not shoot at each other. (At least, that's what the guy who was rules-guru-ing said.

So we just, sat there and bumped for 3 turns, while the CR90 regained each damage it too, and yeah.

WE HAD ONE OF THESE HAPPEN. Sorry for the caps but I want to really get your attention:

Basically: we had the healing station obstacle very close to one side. The VSD then tried to move 1 or 2 slight through it, but a CR90 was on top of it. And since there was "obstacle" between us, we could not shoot at each other. (At least, that's what the guy who was rules-guru-ing said.

So we just, sat there and bumped for 3 turns, while the CR90 regained each damage it too, and yeah.

Rules Guru was wrong. The obstacle merely obstructs the shot, so you have to remove one die of your choice from the pool when you attack.

RRG, p8, "Obstructed"

"An attack is obstructed if line of sight is traced through an obstacle token or another ship that is not the defender. If an attack is obstructed by one or more ships or obstacles, the attacker must choose and remove one die from his attack pool before he rolls dice during the “Roll Attack Dice” step."

Edit: Also the Corvette would be taking 2 damage per round. One when it runs into the Vic and one when the Vic runs into it. Dito for the Vic. The Station would only heal one of the two.

Oh, and it was due to TERRIBAD rolling on my behalf that the Neb Bs survived so long in front of my VSD1. once the other VSD2 rocked up it Tarkined the frak out of them.

Neb Bs only have 5 hull, 3 rounds of ramming means 6 damage straight to the Neb B's hull. 5 If there was only one ram instead of two in the first round, still enough to kill one in 3 rounds, even if you roll all blanks with the Vic.

Oh, and it was due to TERRIBAD rolling on my behalf that the Neb Bs survived so long in front of my VSD1. once the other VSD2 rocked up it Tarkined the frak out of them.

Neb Bs only have 5 hull, 3 rounds of ramming means 6 damage straight to the Neb B's hull. 5 If there was only one ram instead of two in the first round, still enough to kill one in 3 rounds, even if you roll all blanks with the Vic.

Maybe they weren't applying the damage to the hull. Afterall, he mentions when one of the Neb-Bs got up to speed 3 he wanted to jink in and ram the side arc. The arc you hit doesn't matter since both ships just receive a face-down damage card.

I, personally, think the ramming rules are just fine. I mean, if you and your opponent are just going to slowly fly directly at each other at speed 1 without making any sort of maneuvers, then you have gotten yourselves into that situation where you'll just keep bumping with no escape.

We have had a few bumps and it always resolved within a turn as one or other ship dies just from the amount of damage being dealt. If it is a Nebulon ramming a VSD it has to make sure that it is dead on straight and in the middle as being slightly to the side for a head on collision results in a full 6 die frontal attack into the flank of the nebulon, generally killing it off after it took the 1 damage from the previous turn. If not the next bump kills it. Even taking the damage through the front shields (which if it has gotten that close are probably all ready down) will still kill it in one turn.

I can't see how people are managing to bump for more than a turn, the direct to hull damage, full frontal attack, plus other attacks form other ships guarantess a kill. The rules really don't need changing.