-About Serena. What happens if she is defeated? Does she automatically get lost? I'd say yes, as on the contrary, heroes would get an advantage is she is defeated, as this way she could't then get lost on any way.

-About heros. What happens when they are knocked down? Do they get lost automatically? Can they trace LoS to the wisp while KO? If not, can they stan up by themselves, as lost heroes are supossed to not be able to perform actions while lost? Can a KO hero be targeted by healing skills?

-About lost heroes (not KO). Can a lost hero be targeted by attacks or any other skill? Do lost heroes have a turn? Do "star-of-your-turn" things trigger (i.e. Poison)? Rules say that lost heroes (or Serena) can't perform actions, but, can they do "non-action" things? Like exhausting cards. I'm thinking now of Herbal Lore, which is exhausted during other heroes turn, not Apothecary's. Does a lost hero block movement or LoS?

Now it's me who's completely lost...

1) I went over the ally rules yesterday, looking for where they are supposed to be placed, so I'm pretty sure that I read:

Allies that are defeated are permanently defeated for that encounter. They cannot be revived. They do re-appear at full health in the following encounter.

EDIT: Since heroes can trace line of sight to hero tokens for "lost" purposes, I'd actually say that knocked out heroes are NOT automatically lost, but just can become lost if they stay knocked out.

If a hero were revived, he would immediately not be lost anymore, as he'd be adjacent to another hero. Lost heroes cannot perform actions (stand up is an action,) and I would otherwise treat them as you would a knocked out hero, since they are not actually on the map. Therefore, it wouldn't make sense for them to be performing non-attack actions, or non-attack moves (otherwise a "lost" wildlander could just use nimble/fleet of foot to fatigue move a bunch and become un-lost, which as far as I'm aware, is not allowed.)

For setup of encounter 2, remember that Serena is not a hero. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether she was lost in Encounter 1- she sets up adjacent to a hero, like any other encounter.

Ok, so you're saying that a lost hero is practically the same as a KO'ed one, for the purpose of other figures and cards, right? What about their own turn, and conditions?

For Serena, I directly interpreted as if she should be placed on one place or the other like the heroes. Didn't remember that allys are not heroes for questions rules. So, if all heroes are lost, is she actually forced to be placed with them on the Exit? And if only some heroes were lost, can you choose where to place her?

Ok, so you're saying that a lost hero is practically the same as a KO'ed one, for the purpose of other figures and cards, right? What about their own turn, and conditions?

For Serena, I directly interpreted as if she should be placed on one place or the other like the heroes. Didn't remember that allys are not heroes for questions rules. So, if all heroes are lost, is she actually forced to be placed with them on the Exit? And if only some heroes were lost, can you choose where to place her?

I would say the "lost hero" doesn't have a turn while lost. That is probably worth asking FFG for clarification. Please post the answer when you get it.

If you look at the LOR rulebook, you'll find:

"Other quests will state “The heroes control their ally,” meaning that the heroes control the ally they received during the campaign. If playing the quest outside of a campaign, the heroes may choose which ally they control. The ally’s token

Since encounter 2 just says to place "heroes" and not "heroes and allies" according to whether they were lost in encounter 1, only the heroes get placed specially, and then Serena must be placed adjacent to any hero. She is only forced to start on the "lost" location if all heroes became lost in encounter 1.

Question submitted.

Thanks a lot, as always, Zaltyre.

I don't want to start a new topic for this so here goes.

The Special rules state:

If a hero or ally cannot measure LOS to the wisp and they are not within 3 spaces of a hero or ally that can measure line of sight to the wisp, they become lost

...

If a hero or ally is ever has (big typo here ) LOS to a lost hero or ally, the lost hero is no longer lost.

Since the second sentence doesn't mention the LOS to the wisp, its seems to me that a chain reaction like below is possible.

The turn starts like this, all heroes except for one hero are lost.

Hero 1 (lost) - space - space - Hero 2 (lost) - space - space - Hero 3 (lost) - space - space - space - space - Wisp - Hero 4 (not lost)

Now, Hero 4 starts his turn and moves to the other side of the Wisp

Hero 1 (lost) - space - space - Hero 2 (lost) - space - space - Hero 3 (lost) - space - space - Hero 4 (not lost) - space - Wisp

The rules say 'If a hero or ally is ever has (big typo here ) LOS to a lost hero or ally, the lost hero is no longer lost.'

So, since Hero 4 has LOS to Hero 3, Hero 3 is now longer lost. Reading the same rule again, since Hero 3 is no longer lost and he has LOS to Hero 2, Hero 2 is no longer lost, ..

And we end up with this:

Hero 1 (not lost) - space - space - Hero 2 (not lost) - space - space - Hero 3 (not lost) - space - space - Hero 4 (not lost) - space - Wisp

That doesn't seem right. Or is that really how it's supposed to work?

I would expect Hero 1 and 2 to still be lost, since Hero 3 is not within 3 spaces of the wisp. But that's not what the rules say it seems.

Also, which quest is the most fun to play? Through the Mist, or Back from the Dead?

Nobody? Not even Zaltyre?

That chain actually seems possible as written, but it is strange, because by the first paragraph, hero 1 and two should be lost again, since they do not have LOS to the wisp or are within 3 of a hero who does. Might be worth asking. They are lost by the first condition, but not lost by the second condition.

What email address do I send this question to?

I read the rules again, and under 'The Wisp' it says "At the end of the wisp's movement, the overlord checks to see if any allies are lost."

That sort of leads to more confusion, since the rules in my previous post seem to say 'as soon as he can not measure LOS he is lost'.

Or is he only lost when the hero does the wisp movement?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

That is the link to submit rules questions. I think the check occurs after the wisp moves, but if the wisp moves itself into the position you outlined, there is still the question of whether heroes 1 and 2 are lost or not.

Finally got an answer

Hey Steven,

After reviewing your question, it seems best to errata that section of the Special Rules. The last sentence of the second paragraph under Special Rules will instead read, “If a lost hero can measure line of sight to the wisp or is within 3 spaces of a hero or ally that can measure line of sight to the wisp, the lost hero or ally is no longer lost."

Thanks for playing!

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Finally got an answer

Me too!

So well, that's something interesting, but.... I'm afraid I was too scarce on my question, so I still don't know what happens with KO heroes regarding lost rules, and the interaction with lost heroes with the rest of the game (taken as objective of attacks, skill or cards). Not sure how to interpret the phrase: "Other game effects should operate normally". My bad in this case. Well, Kara did apologize a lot for "the late response", so I guess I can ask again!

I'll come here as soon as I have news.

Stand up is an action. They couldn't stand up, and while knocked out are not on the map.

So then, a KO hero can only be revived by others, I guess. But, do they become lost rght away? I mean, can KO heroes trace LoS to the Wisp?

Anyway, it is submitted, so let's see what they say.

Ok, so finally got an answer!! It seems that this time it was hard even for them.

Hey Andrew,

Nathan and I had a long discussion on how to handle this answer, so I must thank you again for your patience. How to rule lost heroes (and knocked-out heroes) in this encounter caused a lot of good conversation about the rules of this encounter.

We determined that in Through the Mist, a knocked-out hero is allowed to trace line of sight from his or her hero token to the wisp or a hero or ally within 3 spaces that can see the wisp, and so a hero is not automatically lost if knocked out.

We also determined that a lost hero is more like a knocked-out hero. A lost hero is not on the map but, similar to a knocked-out hero above, may trace line of sight from his or her hero token to become not lost as the rules currently state. Contrary to my previous ruling, a lost hero does not have a turn and cannot use abilities. I apologize for the reverse, but the discussion that resulted from this ruling convinced us this is how a lost hero should be treated.

Thanks, as always, for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

And now I hope this covers everything!