Ten Numb- When attacking, 1 of your Crit results cannot be cancelled by defense dice

Mangler Cannon- When attacking, you may change 1 of your hit results to a Crit result

Question:

Does Ten and the MC work together or does the player have to pick which will be used for shooting?

Thanks

Doug

They work together. You declare that you are attacking using the cannon. Change 1 hit to crit. That crit cannot be canceled by dice.

Now, I don't know, but am pretty sure, that spending an evade token doesn't cancel the Numb crit. Just like it doesn't with auto blasters - a guaranteed damage.

Okay. So then it's one or the other. Can't have an uncancelled Crit for Ten and have a hit turned to Crit via MC then?

Okay. So then it's one or the other. Can't have an uncancelled Crit for Ten and have a hit turned to Crit via MC then?

What? No. How on earth did you come to that conclusion after emmjay's response?

You may use the Mangler to turn a hit into a critical, and then Ten can make it so that your opponent can't cancel that critical (assuming you didn't roll a second one, anyway).

Also, emmjay is correct that Evade tokens won't be able to stop it, either. They are considered to add a dice result when you spend them, so they're just as useless as a regular dice in this situation.

What??!!

You roll 2 hits and a crit

Ten changes one of the hits to a crit

You now have 1 hit and 2 crits

One of those crits cannot be cancelled, doesn't matter which one, just one of them cannot be cancelled, then the defender can cancel the othe crit as well as the hit.

Okay. So then it's one or the other. Can't have an uncancelled Crit for Ten and have a hit turned to Crit via MC then?

What? No. How on earth did you come to that conclusion after emmjay's response?

You may use the Mangler to turn a hit into a critical, and then Ten can make it so that your opponent can't cancel that critical (assuming you didn't roll a second one, anyway).

Also, emmjay is correct that Evade tokens won't be able to stop it, either. They are considered to add a dice result when you spend them, so they're just as useless as a regular dice in this situation.

Oops. Must have read his response wrong. Sorry.

I was only asking as I used this setup on the weekend and I thought it was use the MC or Ten's ability with the weapons on his BWing. Glad it's not.

I've used Ten before and like him...even though he is 31pts base.

Thanks again

Okay. So then it's one or the other. Can't have an uncancelled Crit for Ten and have a hit turned to Crit via MC then?

What? No. How on earth did you come to that conclusion after emmjay's response?

You may use the Mangler to turn a hit into a critical, and then Ten can make it so that your opponent can't cancel that critical (assuming you didn't roll a second one, anyway).

Also, emmjay is correct that Evade tokens won't be able to stop it, either. They are considered to add a dice result when you spend them, so they're just as useless as a regular dice in this situation.

Oops. Must have read his response wrong. Sorry.

I was only asking as I used this setup on the weekend and I thought it was use the MC or Ten's ability with the weapons on his BWing. Glad it's not.

I've used Ten before and like him...even though he is 31pts base.

Thanks again

I'm afraid you might be still be misunderstanding one or both of the effects here.

The Mangler Cannon allows you to modify your attack dice after you roll them. Specifically, it lets you change one [boom] result to a [kaboom] result.

Ten Numb says that one of your [kaboom] results can't be canceled by your opponent's dice. It happens much later than the Mangler Cannon's change to your results--it happens when you're comparing dice results, which is after both Attack and defense dice have been rolled and modified. And it also won't work at all if you don't have any [kaboom] results--they have to come from somewhere, after all.

So Mangler Cannon and Ten's pilot ability work great together, since Ten's ability means the almost-guaranteed [kaboom] result from the Mangler can't be canceled. Is that a clear explanation?

Sure is.

You could, with the normal roll and then the Mangler, end up with all your dice being crits.

But Ten would only stop 1 being cancelled.

Yes they work together but it's not an effective combo he`ll never make his points back at best he's an expensive Biggs.

Yes they work together but it's not an effective combo he`ll never make his points back at best he's an expensive Biggs.

This is only true until you face Soontir with stealth and autothrusters, which is possibly the second or third most popular named ship right now.

Yes they work together but it's not an effective combo he`ll never make his points back at best he's an expensive Biggs.

This is only true until you face Soontir with stealth and autothrusters, which is possibly the second or third most popular named ship right now.

Indeed. Played a non-store champ tournament post-S&V, my opponent was flying Soontir + Turr + Shuttle, while I had Ten+mangler+Adv. Sensors+VI, 2xBlue+FCS, Tala. Slowly following the others, making use of advanced sensors, barrel roll and PS10, and stripping the Stealth Devices while landing crits on both Interceptors... so good. Though he is still pretty grossly overcosted. It was nice actually breaking out the Ten alt art card for once though.

Yes they work together but it's not an effective combo he`ll never make his points back at best he's an expensive Biggs.

You need to pair him with something equally nasty.

I ran this last night: Ten + VI + Mango, Corran + PTL + R2D2 + FCS, and Blount with an IPM.

Blount was really there to fill out the other 20 points. I might go with a Prototype w/ Prockets instead. The opponent has two options shoot at the easier to kill B-wing or go after Horn (which they should) which gives Ten a bunch of sniping shots. I'll be fine if you go after Ten Numb first. I got silly powerful Horn in the end game. I slaughtered a 3 B-wing and Biggs list with it and 2 double IG lists. I really like Ten now.

I guess you could potentially use Elusiveness to counter Ten as long as he didn't roll any other crits and didn't reroll a crit. It's a 2 point chance to cure a 35 point 'superweapon'.

Now, if Ten has a focus, and rolls all misses and 1 eyeball, can he then use the focus to change that to a hit and then change that hit into a crit?

Now, if Ten has a focus, and rolls all misses and 1 eyeball, can he then use the focus to change that to a hit and then change that hit into a crit?

Yes.

I guess you could potentially use Elusiveness to counter Ten as long as he didn't roll any other crits and didn't reroll a crit. It's a 2 point chance to cure a 35 point 'superweapon'.

Assuming Ten has a Mangler Cannon, this only works when he rolls only one success.

The defender modifies attack dice before the attacker modifies attack dice, so you have to chose a die for Ten to reroll before he changes a hit result to a crit result with the Mangler. If he has at least two hit results, you can only reroll one of those, and he can convert the other.

So just pray for munitions failure?

So just pray for munitions failure?

Only if you're getting it from a Proton Bomb.

Otherwise, he'll be down to 2 hp or fewer after the faceup card is dealt regardless, and will have already dealt his damage.

...emmjay is correct that an Evade token can't stop them, either. They are considered to add a dice result to them...

This makes no sense to me. Numb's card says specifically the one critical hit cannot be cancelled by defense dice. An evade token is a TOKEN. If it were the intent to have the ability to apply to tokens AND dice, why would it not say it cannot be cancelled, period. If it were a Focus token, I agree as it is modifying dice.

Example: Numb rolls two hits. One is change to a critical. Defender rolls two evades. First die cancels the regular hit, second does not cancel the Critical hit per the ability. BUT, then the defender spends an evade token. I think it should cancel it.

Perhaps I am missing something.

This makes no sense to me. Numb's card says specifically the one critical hit cannot be cancelled by defense dice. An evade token is a TOKEN. If it were the intent to have the ability to apply to tokens AND dice, why would it not say it cannot be cancelled, period. If it were a Focus token, I agree as it is modifying dice.

Example: Numb rolls two hits. One is change to a critical. Defender rolls two evades. First die cancels the regular hit, second does not cancel the Critical hit per the ability. BUT, then the defender spends an evade token. I think it should cancel it.

Perhaps I am missing something.

It honestly used to work like this.

However, to buff him and the Autoblaster family, an FAQ entry was released, stating that Evade Tokens and other additional dodges count as unmodifiable dice results.

This makes no sense to me. Numb's card says specifically the one critical hit cannot be cancelled by defense dice. An evade token is a TOKEN. If it were the intent to have the ability to apply to tokens AND dice, why would it not say it cannot be cancelled, period. If it were a Focus token, I agree as it is modifying dice.

Example: Numb rolls two hits. One is change to a critical. Defender rolls two evades. First die cancels the regular hit, second does not cancel the Critical hit per the ability. BUT, then the defender spends an evade token. I think it should cancel it.

Perhaps I am missing something.

It honestly used to work like this.

However, to buff him and the Autoblaster family, an FAQ entry was released, stating that Evade Tokens and other additional dodges count as unmodifiable dice results.

Technically, I think it used to be that evade tokens added dice results (as per the core rule book), and therefore couldn't be used against Autoblaster Cannon/Turret or Ten Numb's Mangler.

Then a FAQ changed it so that evade tokens could still be used against those uncancellable hits/crits.

Than a newer FAQ changed it back.

They work together. You declare that you are attacking using the cannon. Change 1 hit to crit. That crit cannot be canceled by dice.

Now, I don't know, but am pretty sure, that spending an evade token doesn't cancel the Numb crit. Just like it doesn't with auto blasters - a guaranteed damage.

Also Greedo and an Ion Cannon. Dat ion damage that crits.

This makes no sense to me. Numb's card says specifically the one critical hit cannot be cancelled by defense dice. An evade token is a TOKEN. If it were the intent to have the ability to apply to tokens AND dice, why would it not say it cannot be cancelled, period. If it were a Focus token, I agree as it is modifying dice.

Example: Numb rolls two hits. One is change to a critical. Defender rolls two evades. First die cancels the regular hit, second does not cancel the Critical hit per the ability. BUT, then the defender spends an evade token. I think it should cancel it.

Perhaps I am missing something.

It honestly used to work like this.

However, to buff him and the Autoblaster family, an FAQ entry was released, stating that Evade Tokens and other additional dodges count as unmodifiable dice results.

Technically, I think it used to be that evade tokens added dice results (as per the core rule book), and therefore couldn't be used against Autoblaster Cannon/Turret or Ten Numb's Mangler.

Then a FAQ changed it so that evade tokens could still be used against those uncancellable hits/crits.

Than a newer FAQ changed it back.

As Klutz points out, the effect of spending an evade token is to "add one additional [evade result] to his defense roll," so for as long as tokens could block Ten and Autoblaster, we had an odd distinction between "defense dice" and "defense dice results" which caused additional ambiguity with other cards like C-3PO. The current ruling cleans up the rules, doesn't break anything, and improves some formerly unplayable cards to the point that they are at least worth a second look. This ruling really is for the best.

My qualm with the FAQ ruling is that forcing a fighter to spend its action on an evade token in hopes of getting out of dice proof damage is a great value unto itself. Your opponent is buttoning up and forgoing focus and TL in case a crit comes through. That's potential damage given up against your squad. Since evade tokens no longer block the damage, they're worthless to choose against such opponents. You have the possibility of gaining 1-3 damage or a crit and lady dady everybody is going to be choosing focus or putting a TL on you because the name of the game is no longer trying to mitigate the damage, it's to kill you off as rapidly as possible in order to stop it. And the evades that are rolled that don't stop the autohits will certainly stop the crits and hits that don't apply.

FFG slapped a huge band-aid on the issue and took a level of complexity out of the game.