Hello There,

I am not that new to FFg Games but certainly newer to this community. I have received as a gift one copy of Imperial Assault. Considering the fact that both universes are nice, Star Wars because it is Star Wars and Descent because it is a well extended universe with much Expansion that give shape to the background.

Stil... I have read many reviews comparing both games and it comes out that Imperial Assault does have a more polished game system that his Grand Brother.

So, having never had the opportunity to give Descent a try, I would like to know what you think about the game as it is now with all his expansion pack released, from the big boxes to the single Lieutenant.

As I hesitate between investing fully in Star Wars as I have the core set as a gift or giving a try at both games... What is appealing in Descent it is surely its content already rich, which is still not sure about Imperial Assault.

And there I am : asking you guys if I should invest my time and money into IA or following the appeal of a Dark dungeon whose system looks to have disappointed some players (most of them fans of the 1st Edition and some others having played for a long time on this 2nd Edition)

Thanks a lot for your answers

Elrad

Descent with all expansions:

1) Loads of minis

2) Loads of quests

3) TOO MANY RULES, FAQs, ERRATAS

Seriosly, there are a lot of questions even in 2015 with move rules, LoS and etc.

ALSO if your friends passed 2 or more campaignes they will find so OP combinations. "Elder mok bard" just for example.

But if you are not afraid to descend - we're welcome you in Descent.

It's really a question of what kind of experience your are after. Did you play Descent first edition? If so, are you reading about second edition and really hoping it's the first edition? If so, you should go with IA probably. However, if you found first edition to be a little cumbersome and time consuming, the second edition is a streamlined version that's a bit lighter on the RPG elements, and heavier on tactics and strategy. Personally, that's exactly what I'm after, and this game hits the spot. In Descent, the quest information is public to all players- in IA, the campaign quests are kept hidden by the Imperial player in order to surprise the rebels. Again, one allows you to plan and strategize, the other is more about RPG elements.

You should also realize that IA got to take advantage of the fact that D2e has been out for so long that they could leverage the best of things and place them into IA. In addition, FFG learned from past mistakes, and as a result there are some things (rules, etc.) that may be better in IA than they exist in D2e.

Having said that, I own both games and enjoy them for different reasons. As you stated, they are two entirely different worlds, and they appeal to me in different ways.

I have heard that some people use the LoS system from IA when playing D2e.

I'm not sure if I'm going to implement that or not - I'm going to ask the players. I'm introducing them to D2e on Wednesday. Other than that, I haven't seen much wrong with the rules. (not saying D2e LoS is wrong, it's just that I think IA LoS makes a bit more sense)

I have heard that some people use the LoS system from IA when playing D2e.

I'm not sure if I'm going to implement that or not - I'm going to ask the players. I'm introducing them to D2e on Wednesday. Other than that, I haven't seen much wrong with the rules. (not saying D2e LoS is wrong, it's just that I think IA LoS makes a bit more sense)

I encourage you to try D2E as is first, before tweaking it. IA Line of Sight rules may be more "realistic," but realism is not necessarily the highest virtue in board gaming. If I wanted realism, I wouldn't be playing a fantasy game in the first place.

I encourage you to try D2E as is first, before tweaking it.

Sold. I won't even mention IA LoS on Wednesday. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible for everyone involved, including myself.

This will be the first time playing for all of us. I got a great deal on a full, practically brand new D1e box, so I bought D2e and the conversion kit, so I have lots of heroes and monsters available, but I'm reluctant to use the extras just yet. I think I'm just going to present them with the two heroes for each archetype that came with D2e, and I won't use any of the D1e monsters for my Open Groups either.

After we've played with the basics a bit, then I'll introduce more, and likely buy the rest of the expansions, assuming all goes well.

That is the perfect way to learn D2e. Just start with the basics. As the player introducing the game, and presumably the one playing the OL, I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to know the rules and the FAQ very, very, well.

There is already one thread within this forum talking about a group of players that are quitting the game after one single play through of a single quest. Virtually all of their issues resulted from players (especially the OL) not playing by the correct rules.

I would also strongly advocate that you play the game with 4 heroes (even if you don't have 4 physical players to match up 1 to 1 with each hero), as the game is most balance in this format.

Thanks to all for your answers,

I have not played any of the to Descent before. So today monday 27th) was my first two games on IA. I liked it. One thing I like that i see Descent doesn't do is to have both sides playing back and forth. and for all the rules that are still - for some - kinda problematic, won't the team behind D2 release a new refined and clarifield rule of the game after what they did in IA ?

Some of the posts I have read here and there on the Net show the worriness of their author concerning the futur of Descent 2. I guess the point has already been discused here but do you think that FFG will stop D2 to grow up to D3 ?

I am fairly certain that FFG will release many IA expansions in the near(ish) future. So, unless you want to get fully geared up with expansions right away, I wouldn't consider this as an advantage of Descent over IA.

For me, it all comes up to the game universe.

An epic fantasy world with monsters, heroes and an evil mastermind... Sorry Star Wars, but I will wait for the movie

If I could bring one thing and only one to a desert island, it would be D2E. It would keep me busy for the next 10 years or so. Including the expansions, so maybe I´m cheating here, but you get the idea.

I don't think D2E and IA are incompatible purchases, you could just try them both. Both games are similar but they still feel very different. Obviously IA has a lot of appeal coming from the franchise, but Descent doesn't feel blend either. It's generic fantasy in essence, but you have these unique monsters too that make the game unique.

As for its future, who knows? It's also up to the community to keep it alive

If I could bring one thing and only one to a desert island, it would be D2E. It would keep me busy for the next 10 years or so. Including the expansions, so maybe I´m cheating here, but you get the idea.

I don't think D2E and IA are incompatible purchases, you could just try them both. Both games are similar but they still feel very different. Obviously IA has a lot of appeal coming from the franchise, but Descent doesn't feel blend either. It's generic fantasy in essence, but you have these unique monsters too that make the game unique.

As for its future, who knows? It's also up to the community to keep it alive

Yep, both games are cousins, each does things in their own way so it's possible to have both.

It just depends on what you're actually looking for.

Eh thanks for your answers you two,

I will consider it more carefully in the future. I don't really need an overwhelming story around the game because its material already arise the imagination and creativity.

To me, I consider Lieutenant expansions to be... a bit cosmetic. What do you guys think about those mini-packs ? They clearly look like the Allies and Vilains packs of AI but the content in AI seems a bit more rich than in Descent's Lieutenants, what's your point of view ?

on the contrary Hero and Monster packs look to bring some fresh air to the game by... adding more figs... Again, what's your opinion about those expansion packs ?

I think with the time, I will put my hand on a copy of Descent 2E or at least try it at a games convention or so.

Thanks for your answers,

Elrad

Small edit to answer @Gridash : to be honnest, I am more appealed by the theme of Descent universe but on the other side, I like the system of IA... And as it has been offered to me, I won't send it to the trash

I shall give a try to Descent instead of always taking advice. Like someone said : "Stop Talking, Start Playing"

You should also realize that IA got to take advantage of the fact that D2e has been out for so long that they could leverage the best of things and place them into IA. In addition, FFG learned from past mistakes, and as a result there are some things (rules, etc.) that may be better in IA than they exist in D2e.

This is absolutely true. However, it's also absolutely true that D2E got to benefit in the same way from D1E. D2E was beautiful and sleek and elegant when it was first released, but it became bloated as expansion after expansion came out and complicated things. In fact, I would be inclined to argue that this is a natural consequence of expansion-heavy game design and it will probably happen to IA as well, in time.

One thing I like that i see Descent doesn't do is to have both sides playing back and forth. and for all the rules that are still - for some - kinda problematic, won't the team behind D2 release a new refined and clarifield rule of the game after what they did in IA ?

I'm quite sure they will, and it will be called Descent 3rd Edition.

This isn't intended to be a cynical response, just an acknowledgement of the business model. I'm not saying that D2E is done yet, nor that D3E will be coming anytime soon. But it will be coming some day - Descent is too large a franchise for FFG to let it stagnate in Second Edition forever. And when 3E comes out, it will assuredly learn a number of valuable lessons from D2E, IA, and any other games they might publish with this basic game engine in between now and then.

The good news for the immediate future is that because D2E and IA are so close in mechanics, it probably wouldn't be too hard to port over any rules you really like from IA. For example, the alternating hero/monster/hero/monster mechanics could probably be introduced to D2E if you really want to. FFG won't do it, but you can in homebrew.

To me, I consider Lieutenant expansions to be... a bit cosmetic. What do you guys think about those mini-packs ?

on the contrary Hero and Monster packs look to bring some fresh air to the game by... adding more figs... Again, what's your opinion about those expansion packs ?

Regarding LT packs, I bought the three Farrows just because I like them as characters. They're such a central part of the Terrinoth mythology. However, I don't know if I'll ever buy any of the others. I'm certainly not looking to buy them all - that would just be too many options when I can only use 1 per campaign. Inevitbaly most of them would sit around collecting dust after I found my faves. The figs themselves would see use in LT form, of course, but that's still a lot of money for figures that really ought to have been in the box.

Regarding Hero & Monster packs, they seem like a good way for people who missed out on D1E to get figs for all those monsters and heroes. I already own D1E, so I'm satisfied with the Conversion Kit giving me necessary rules without figures.

I've already sold my IA and I will tell you why. I'm sticking with Descent. Pretty sure I've posted this before but I can't remember.

#1 - No clases. I like choice. Descent has 40 characters right now if you don't include any upgrade kit ones. There are for sure a whole bunch more coming. IA has 6. But for sake of argument lets say IA has the same amount of expansions and they have 40 characters as well. Descent has 222 combinations of characters. IA will have 40. You will only be able to play the Commander in IA one way ever. I think someone else already pointed out it will take a lifetime to go through all the options Descent has.

#2 - Characters choose most of the quests. This is super lame. People in my group will pick quests they can win with out a doubt. So you will most likely play the same boring easy (for the heroes quests) every time. Which will also limit which characters the players will pick as well. No one will pick the jedi if getting the lightsabre quest is impossible.

#3 - Hidden quests sucks. I know lots of people like this, but this is descents strength. In IA once you have played a quest twice the information isn't hidden any longer. Players can now take advantage of the fact they know where and when events will happen. Especially if your heroes keep picking the same "easy to win" quests. Because the information is open, anyone can play Overlord and anyone can play heroes. You can play the same quest as a challenge because knowing the information doesn't change the outcome of the quest.

Ya descent could use some rule changes that IA has, but I think you are going to see Descent with more staying power in the long run unless IA drastically changes in the future.

I am a big Star Stars Fan too so it wasn't that I didn't like that Theme. I really wanted to like it.

I've already sold my IA and I will tell you why. I'm sticking with Descent. Pretty sure I've posted this before but I can't remember.

#1 - No clases. I like choice. Descent has 40 characters right now if you don't include any upgrade kit ones. There are for sure a whole bunch more coming. IA has 6. But for sake of argument lets say IA has the same amount of expansions and they have 40 characters as well. Descent has 222 combinations of characters. IA will have 40. You will only be able to play the Commander in IA one way ever. I think someone else already pointed out it will take a lifetime to go through all the options Descent has.

what do you mean by "upgrade kit ones" ? you mean the one heroes included in Hero and Monster packs ? Forget what I wrote here, I didn't had in mind that there were a converion kit for the 1st edition.

#2 - Characters choose most of the quests. This is super lame. People in my group will pick quests they can win with out a doubt. So you will most likely play the same boring easy (for the heroes quests) every time. Which will also limit which characters the players will pick as well. No one will pick the jedi if getting the lightsabre quest is impossible.

I agree that this point looks like a problem, but I didn't get deeper in the campaign rules as I try to master the fundamentals ones (combat, abilities, etc.)

#3 - Hidden quests sucks. I know lots of people like this, but this is descents strength. In IA once you have played a quest twice the information isn't hidden any longer. Players can now take advantage of the fact they know where and when events will happen. Especially if your heroes keep picking the same "easy to win" quests. Because the information is open, anyone can play Overlord and anyone can play heroes. You can play the same quest as a challenge because knowing the information doesn't change the outcome of the quest.

You say that one of Descent Strenghts is that the quest are open to everyone, do you refer by this to the structure of the campaigns in Descent that already give the list of the quests only allowing the winner team to chose the path to follow ?

Thanks again for your post, it brings me to think a bit more about what to choose. Am I descending into the Dark somehow ?

Elrand,

What Kage13 means is that in the quest guide for descent all quest information is open, the heroes know when events will occur, what the goals are and when reinforcements will appear.

In IA outside of some basic knowledge on objectives this information is hidden form the hero players, so if something happens when a door opens the rebels wont know about it unitl they open the door in the quest.

BUT

once the rebels know that this will happen, should they ever replay the quest the information is not 'hidden' anymore, as long as they remember it..

Elrand,

What Kage13 means is that in the quest guide for descent all quest information is open, the heroes know when events will occur, what the goals are and when reinforcements will appear.

In IA outside of some basic knowledge on objectives this information is hidden form the hero players, so if something happens when a door opens the rebels wont know about it unitl they open the door in the quest.

BUT

once the rebels know that this will happen, should they ever replay the quest the information is not 'hidden' anymore, as long as they remember it..

Also, after having reinforcements appear almost every time you open a door in IA, you begin to get a very good sense of "I've got a bad feeling about this" and can predict when, if not what reinforcements are going to appear.

I always thought that hidding information is a strength on the IA game for the short run but a bad selling point in the long run.

Having classes in Descent is something HUGE. I bought the conversion kit even if I don't have any of the miniatures, so I have 8 heroes from the base game + 2 from Lair of the Wyrm +4 from Labyrinth of Ruin +45 from the conversion kit. That alone makes it really tasteful !!

See this image:

That's just the character. Imagine you just have the base game and the conversion kit, then you now have to choose between 2 classes. That availability of options is what attracts me. Also the ability to create new classes (I made a post about hybrid classes: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/171073-hybrid-classes/ ).

The thing I like the most from IA is that is similar to Descent

immediate question to @Wallack : you mention you don't have all the minis to match the conversion kit, but your picture seems to show the contrary, mayby a friend copy of all minis from DESCENT 1E helpd you out ? I do not intend to look like the one who's looking for the tiny dirty detail, but I'm curious :-)

Another question, how do you play the character whitout their minis ? With tokens ?

Secondly, I have fully understood what Kage13 told me about the quest managment, but the fact that everything is known in Descent from the very beginning and that everything just get known by everybody just by playing through the game doesn't bring to the same situation eventually ?

Some players complain about the amount of rules that complicates the game more and more (whih is not a default to me), and that some OL players finish to have to counter the same character groups again and again, played by players who always take the best combination of characters to beat the game. What difference does this do with th fact that IA only offer one "class" per character ? That's certainly a limitation, but the big amount of combination possibilities in D2E is somehow ruined by the players attitude....

I am not that naïve either, I know that htere are always players who will try everything in their game instead of cheating and killing it merely.

Personally, I have never played IA and probably won't. I like Star Wars, but the franchise is so large. That's not to say I'll never try it.

Two months ago, I walked into a game store and my friend picked up this box. Descent: Journeys into the Dark. 80 bucks. 'It's kind of like Hero's Quest' he said. My interest was piqued. I always loved Hero's Quest and for the longest time wanted to find a game that was just like it. And there it was.

So two weeks later, with the available cash I bought it, brought it home, opened it and learned the game. Now if what people are saying about IA is true, then Hero's quest worked in a similar sort of way. You opened a door and it was only then that the room was revealed, from the furniture to the monster inside.

With Descent, everyone knows where the monsters are. The whole quest (scenario would be a more appropriate description) is usually laid out for everyone. Each side knows what goal they are trying to accomplish as they continue to fight each other. What makes it challenging is figuring out how to accomplish those goals. Figuring out what tactics to use, which hero should move first, how that hero should move, etc. And as the Overlord, punishing them for making ill advised choices.

There is alot of variety here. No scenario can ever play out the same way. There are different heroes to choose from, with different classes for you to choose for them to be. This makes a hero party very dynamic. There are "open groups" of monsters that the Overlord ( the evil player) can choose on any given quest, meaning you could play the same quest and see different types of monsters. Depending on the winner of a quest in a Campaign, those winners can choose what quest to go to next. You will not see the same quest in a Campaign each time you play it. And as you get more expansions, those options in variety just continue to increase.

There really isn't that many rules to be honest. Some specific questions can occur, but with a game that offers so much in components, that's not a big surprise.

But the only real question legitimately that you can ask, if you really are on the fence about this game, is a quite simple one. Simply: Is the game fun?

I can tell you it is. At least I think it is. And usually the people I have introduced it to. My playgroup is excited about wanting to get back together soon to kick off our campaign again. (That might be due to the fact that they are currently steamrolling my Overlording Rear atm but Trenloe is Trenloe and Shiver is Shiver.)

One thing I want to say about Lieutenant packs: If they only came with the base figure, I'd call FF out on them just being a money grubbing tactic. I don't particularly like having tokens represent figures that should actually be included in the base game. The thing that makes me not mind them though is the extras that come with them. Each Lieutenant pack comes with Threat Tokens and a Threat Deck. These decks can add to the Overlord play experience. It sorta gives the OL a little bit more of an edge, but at the same time can give the hero side some added benefits. Each pack has a different threat deck and only one threat deck can be used during any given campaign. It also works off the Rumor mechanic which you gain from any small box expansion. It also allows you to use a Lieutenant in place of a master monster if you wish, making quests even that more interesting. So that being said... I will eventually obtain them all. (Also Serena who can actually be a hero too. )

Hopefully this gives you some insight on what the game is about.

immediate question to @Wallack : you mention you don't have all the minis to match the conversion kit, but your picture seems to show the contrary, mayby a friend copy of all minis from DESCENT 1E helpd you out ? I do not intend to look like the one who's looking for the tiny dirty detail, but I'm curious :-)

Another question, how do you play the character whitout their minis ? With tokens ?

Secondly, I have fully understood what Kage13 told me about the quest managment, but the fact that everything is known in Descent from the very beginning and that everything just get known by everybody just by playing through the game doesn't bring to the same situation eventually ?

Some players complain about the amount of rules that complicates the game more and more (whih is not a default to me), and that some OL players finish to have to counter the same character groups again and again, played by players who always take the best combination of characters to beat the game. What difference does this do with th fact that IA only offer one "class" per character ? That's certainly a limitation, but the big amount of combination possibilities in D2E is somehow ruined by the players attitude....

I am not that naïve either, I know that htere are always players who will try everything in their game instead of cheating and killing it merely.

The picture is not mine!

I play with the minis I have. I don't have the need to match the picture of the hero sheet with the miniature. So I might use one hero sheet and then the miniature I like the most that has some resemblance or none at all. At the end that doesn't really matter. Also I have miniatures from other games (Warhammer for example) and miniatures I buy from the internet just to match some chars. For example, from the lieutenants I only bought one, Liza Farrow because I liked the miniature. The rest ... bought miniatures that fit the theme but are much nicer.

About knowing stuff. That really depends on the players, I mean, I as a player like to try different things, so if I play the same quest as yesterday I might try a different hero combination. Having a big pool to choose from is always good. The difference between knowing the objectives and not knowing is like reading a book. IA rules are based around surprise and you might lose that if you play the quest more than once and remember about it. What I mean here is that one of the perks of IA dissapear over time.

One thing you can do with your group is offer them for example, to draw a number amount of heroes and then choose one from there. Then choose the class they want for that hero for example. Don't allow repeating if you want ... that repetitiveness is what kills games.

The thing that you say about players attitude, that's true, but that's something that has NOTHING to do with the game while hidden rules that once known are not hidden anymore does. I would play IA and a full campaign if a friend hosts one but I wouldn't buy it. I'm more fantasy oriented (that should be the main thing to look when choosing) and the thing that the game offers classes and roles really different one from each other is always great.

Secondly, I have fully understood what Kage13 told me about the quest managment, but the fact that everything is known in Descent from the very beginning and that everything just get known by everybody just by playing through the game doesn't bring to the same situation eventually ?

If I understand what you are saying here, the answer is No.

In IA the hidden information is worked into "balance" of the quest. In IA quest certain events occur when the heroes do things. Some of those events might be easier for the heroes.

For example (a simple one mind you). The heroes open door A then 3 stormtroopers appear. If they open door B then an AT-ST appears. Well guess what happens the 2nd time the heroes play that quest? Do you think they will ever open door B again?

The heroes also choose 66% of the quests. 4 for each hero they pick, and 4 (grey?) ones. 4 others are chosen randomly. If I've already played Quest A and B and B was impossible. Guess which one i'm going to choose?

Its not the same as the heroes choosing the next quest in Descent based on if they won or lost the last one. In IA the heroes pick 8 of the 12 quests before the campaign begins.

In descent there is no balance issue because of hidden information. And don't get me wrong I absolutely love hidden information. Descent 1E had it. But you can only play quests once. I'm looking long term.

If I own the game of IA, I can also NEVER be a hero because I own all the "inside" information. Especially if I run a group, but in another group someone else wants to be the Imperial player.

In descent, you can study the quest book all you want. and it makes no difference who plays the OL or Heroes.

In descent I can play the same campaign with 222+ combinations of heroes, with everyone switching out as OL and heroes.

maybe my non-knowledge of Descent2E (and non-further experience on AI to now) makes me misunderstanding you Kage13.

But let's re-take your example with doors A and B.

In Descent, Can a room with a closed door hide a group of Monsters only revealed when the players decide to open the door or is the group of monster already in game at the beginning ? So if the monsters are already in play, can they (logically yes, but who knows) open themselves the door ?

If yes is the answer to both those above questions, then the difference between IA and Descent lies in the fact that whatever they decide to open it or not, the players will meet the monsters behind the door where they will be able to avoid it in Star Wars as it is a hidden element not revealed unless the door is open.

So if I am right all the way to here, and if we consider your exemple in Descent whatever they choose, the players will meet the two groups "hidding" behind the two doors whn in IA they will only meet the group behind the door they will have chosen to open, am I right ?

thanks to Omnislash024 and Wallack for your answers too !

I am more than on the fence to acquire Descent 2E.

I still need one answer that has been partly given : something I like a lot in IA is the turn-based system with characters playing Back and forth, one unit at a time instead of a full heroes turn and then a full OL turn. Is that dynamic portable from IA to Descent without too many problems ? And by the way, what do you think about that difference of turn-based system between the two games ?

Thanks in Advance,

Elrad

Ya I see what you are saying. Descent is not like that. All the monsters start on the board. And can reappear. And the heroes always know where they can reappear, so then can plan accordingly.

In descent Door A will just have a different challenge then Door B. Not harder or easier because the knowledge is hidden and the heroes just made a bad choice.

IA quest balance is based on the heroes not knowing where Enemies can show up. but after playing a quest a few times they will know exactly where they can show up and be able to plan for it. But with hidden info that's the point, heroes shouldn't be able to plan for it.

I also do like the back and forth between the players and OL, but that doesn't mean its better. Its just a different kind of strategy.

IA for sure has some rule "fixes" Descent can benefit from. I'd be disappointed if it didn't. After all IA is based on Descent..

I really like Large figure movement, and LOS rules in IA better then Descent.

EDIT: I have not tried incorporating any of these IA rules into Descent. You never know how much of this will mess with balance.