I would say that 24/44 is an improvement, but I wouldn't call it "good". I'd call it...."meh".
What would a diverse meta look like? How about fat turrets not making up more than 25% of the Regional winners list.
2015 Regionals Results
24/44 is Pretty good. Look at the tail end of last regional season through World's.I'm no expert but I'd say the meta is definitely diversifying.
It's a nice thought, but what are you basing it on. If I counted correctly 24 of the 44 top lists from week 9 were fat turrets. That's still over 50%. Which I wouldn't qualify as diversity. It does seem like Bobrots have shown themselves to be a real contender with their performance the second half of the regional season and that's for the better.
I'm not a doomsayer. I think things will work themselves out eventually. However, it's starting to look like it won't be this regional season. Maybe Nationals and Worlds will set a new tone that will lead the way into next year.
To argue semantics, "pretty good" is significantly different from "not awful" it was "awful." I'll even add encouraging. But as ive said before, everyone knows they have to face fat turrets, player expect to see them and plan accordingly and still fall short
Please share what a diverse meta would look like in your eyes.I have higher hopes for diversity in the meta. Let's just say that in my opinion it still has a way to go to earn the adjective diversified.24/44 is Pretty good. Look at the tail end of last regional season through World's.It's a nice thought, but what are you basing it on. If I counted correctly 24 of the 44 top lists from week 9 were fat turrets. That's still over 50%. Which I wouldn't qualify as diversity. It does seem like Bobrots have shown themselves to be a real contender with their performance the second half of the regional season and that's for the better.I'm no expert but I'd say the meta is definitely diversifying.
I'm not a doomsayer. I think things will work themselves out eventually. However, it's starting to look like it won't be this regional season. Maybe Nationals and Worlds will set a new tone that will lead the way into next year.
I did a quick count of what was reported so far by week. The numbers are still incomplete and I may have miscounted so take this with a grain of salt.
1st half of regional season through 10 weeks, so weeks 1-5.
Week 1 is 10 of 15.
Week 2 is 23 of 50.
Week 3 is 17 of 48.
Week 4 is 19 of 41.
Week 5 is 30 of 58.
Total is 99 of 212 reported lists in the top 8 contained fat turrets or 47%.
2nd half weeks 6-10.
Week 6 is 29 of 52.
Week 7 is 17 of 42.
Week 8 is 36 of 78.
Week 9 is 24 of 44.
Week 10 is 9 of 20 so far.
Total is 115 of 236 reported lists in the top 8 contained fat turrets or 49%.
Combined it is 214 of 448 reported top 8 lists contained fat turrets or 48%.
Like I said, it is possible I miscounted, so any verifications would be helpful. I counted close to 50% of the lists in top 8 containing fat turrets. To me, that seems like over representation of any one archetype to be able to call a meta diverse.
Edited by StarbanePlease share what a diverse meta would look like in your eyes.24/44 is Pretty good. Look at the tail end of last regional season through World's.I'm no expert but I'd say the meta is definitely diversifying.
It's a nice thought, but what are you basing it on. If I counted correctly 24 of the 44 top lists from week 9 were fat turrets. That's still over 50%. Which I wouldn't qualify as diversity. It does seem like Bobrots have shown themselves to be a real contender with their performance the second half of the regional season and that's for the better.
I'm not a doomsayer. I think things will work themselves out eventually. However, it's starting to look like it won't be this regional season. Maybe Nationals and Worlds will set a new tone that will lead the way into next year.
I have higher hopes for diversity in the meta. Let's just say that in my opinion it still has a way to go to earn the adjective diversified.
How about less than half the high level events being won by the same three ships? I'll accept that as a starting point.
To argue semantics, "pretty good" is significantly different from "not awful" it was "awful." I'll even add encouraging. But as ive said before, everyone knows they have to face fat turrets, player expect to see them and plan accordingly and still fall short
"Planning accordingly" does not mean gauranteed win. There is a very high skill factor in this game. Even when flying the turret lists, despite the detractors many, many complaints to the contrary.
Combined it is 214 of 448 reported top 8 lists contained fat turrets or 48%.
I believe it's worse if you only look at the winners. I know the first few weeks are definately in that camp.
If I was a competitive player the last thing I'd want would be a diverse meta. I'd want everyone to jump on the Soontir / RAC bandwagon so I could easily counter against them.
I had a great diverse meta experience this weekend at Wisconsin in terms of fat ships --> I only faced one fat turret the whole day!
One feature that folks have asked for in List Juggler is some data around how the meta is being represented at the events. I recently added a basic list ranking feature , but it doesn't really tell the story very well. I'm thinking about taking all of the lists that have been submitted and boiling them down to a distinct set of archtypes, and then reporting on those archtypes. This will help answer "how diverse is the meta", and (perhaps more importantly) what the change factor is over time.
Perhaps we could put on our 18th century scientist hats at do some meta classification to boil out the archtypes? Please like this post if you think I should start a 'X-Wing List Classification' thread whereby we don our spectacles, sun hats, and long socks!
4 votes, that's enough for me, thread created
If you think about it there's really 4 main archetypes you have turrets, arc dodgers, swarms, and others (your jousters and control stuff). Turrets being the most expensive with the least amount of red dice. We've been seeing all of these lists do well.
To argue semantics, "pretty good" is significantly different from "not awful" it was "awful." I'll even add encouraging. But as ive said before, everyone knows they have to face fat turrets, player expect to see them and plan accordingly and still fall short
"Planning accordingly" does not mean gauranteed win. There is a very high skill factor in this game. Even when flying the turret lists, despite the detractors many, many complaints to the contrary.
So obviously us plebs flying non turrets are just a bunch of ******* morons then
Rekkon won Boise Regionals with RAC and Soontir. Soontir had Stealth with AT, PtL and RAC had Pred, Gunner, Isard, Engines and Rebel Captive.
The runner up was Super Dash (HLC, Outrider, Engines, Push, Kyle) and Vrill with HLC and Tactician. Rekkon beat it twice, once in swiss to make the cut (it was the top seed) and then again in the final game.
Top 4 was IGs with Stay on Target and HLCs not sure on upgrades and other was RAC (Vader) and Soontir (hull).
The pairing seemed to be randomly within the scoring so the best score didn't face the next top.
They fixed the top cut pairings, and I think they ended up correct. I was 8th going into the finals, and I believe my first opponent was the only undefeated guy. I did not get to observe all the top 8 lists, but from memory:
1st place: Rekkon
RAC + Predator + Gunner + Isard + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive
Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device + Push the Limit
2nd place: J_Chav
Dash + Push the Limit + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider + Engine Upgrade + Kyle
Vril + Heavy Laser Cannon + Tactician
3rd or 4th place:
IG-88B + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
IG-88D + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
5th-8th place:
Han + Predator + Engine Upgrade + C-3PO + R2-D2 + Millenium Falcon
3x Tala
As for the tournament itself, it was unpleasant, but I think All About Games did well given all the problems they were dealt. The owner said he had turned on the air conditioning the night before, but it either was not working or was not up to the task of 40-some humans putting out waste heat on a 100 degree day. That said, they knew it was a problem and brought in a bunch of fans to help the situation. They also provided free snacks and, more importantly, water. Given how and when those things showed up, I am guessing it was organized on the fly in response to the conditions. I think the TO got stuck with the role (or stuck as primary/only TO) when they got shorthanded. Additionally he was unfamiliar with the software and only given a crash course on it that morning, an issue perhaps related to the staffing problem. Since AAG did not appear to have a laptop, he had to constantly run back and forth to enter/change data. Additionally, the FFG software credited Store Championship byes with 150 MoV rather than 200, and the TO had to correct that every round. How we were told to fill out the match strips changed at least once, which no doubt contributed additional scoring errors (like any time you ask players to compute their own MoV). And let us not forget that the TO was the one store employee stuck there until all the games were over, which was 0100 (yay for 0530 flights home...).
In short, an otherwise adequate situation turned sucky after unexpected mechanical, software, staffing complications. I would give them a second chance were I ever forced to go to Idaho again (did not realize WI was doing pre-registration).
So I should have had 50 more MoV. I wonder if that would have bumped me from 18 to 16. I left pretty quickly after he posted the final standings (first draft I guess) because it was so hot at that point that I really just wanted to get in my car and crank the AC all the way home.
Congratulations on your win. It was nice to meet you and cool to tell my wife (and everyone else that thought I was crazy for driving 3 hours to play X-Wing) that someone travelled as far as you did. Spending a day talking X-Wing with equally enthusiastic players was worth it for me.
Finally, "forced to go to Idaho" isn't that kind of like force to go to Disneyland or forced to have dessert?
Ya, there was a corrected final standings printed. The software kept "fixing" his bye MoV corrections. I know I dropped from 7th to 8th between versions.
Crazy for 3 hours? That is still short range.
Nice to meet you too.
I have personal baggage with Idaho, but even without that it still sucks. In all fairness, I grew up in North Dakota, and it sucks too.
After the updated final roster, there were two guys that went from top sixteen to lower, and they got last year's Luke as a consolation. I think all the other top sixteen players claimed their shields.
The most interesting thing about the FFG software was it wasn't pairing highest MoV to highest MoV (with same score) but instead was random. In round 3 he printed off standing sheets and myself (#1) and my buddy (#2) were the two highest spots. We didn't face each other. Instead I faced #3 and he faced #8..."
Makes me wonder what would have been different with the correct pairings the whole day but oh well.
The FFG software pairs by match wins.
Not match points and mov.
This is actually a bit nicer as top players aren't eliminating each other and it makes pairings a bit easier.
Edited by PicassoThe FFG software pairs by match wins.
Not match points and mov.
This is actually a bit nicer as top players aren't eliminating each other and it makes pairings a bit easier.
Edit, yup I checked it's all here pretty clear. Did they use the old FFG software or the new one? Sounds like it might have been the old software (not that I have used the new).
Edited by ID X T
That's odd, did they not update the tournament rules to actually say that you do use MoV for pairings? I'm sure they did.The FFG software pairs by match wins.
Not match points and mov.
This is actually a bit nicer as top players aren't eliminating each other and it makes pairings a bit easier.
Edit, yup I checked it's all here pretty clear. Did they use the old FFG software or the new one? Sounds like it might have been the old software (not that I have used the new).
I mean, isn't that the point? Or is it normal around here to like to beat up poor nub scrubs who have no idea.
After the updated final roster, there were two guys that went from top sixteen to lower, and they got last year's Luke as a consolation. I think all the other top sixteen players claimed their shields.
Aye, after posting I remembered that no top 16 shields went unclaimed.
That's odd, did they not update the tournament rules to actually say that you do use MoV for pairings? I'm sure they did.The FFG software pairs by match wins.
Not match points and mov.
This is actually a bit nicer as top players aren't eliminating each other and it makes pairings a bit easier.
Edit, yup I checked it's all here pretty clear. Did they use the old FFG software or the new one? Sounds like it might have been the old software (not that I have used the new).
The FFG tournament rules state that you must do pairings first by tournament points, and then by MoV.
The new (still in beta) FFG software does not support pairings by MoV; this is a technical limitation. Strictly speaking their new software is not tournament legal.
Do what I say, not what I do.
To argue semantics, "pretty good" is significantly different from "not awful" it was "awful." I'll even add encouraging. But as ive said before, everyone knows they have to face fat turrets, player expect to see them and plan accordingly and still fall short
"Planning accordingly" does not mean gauranteed win. There is a very high skill factor in this game. Even when flying the turret lists, despite the detractors many, many complaints to the contrary.
So obviously us plebs flying non turrets are just a bunch of ******* morons then
If someone can win with Jake, Corran, and biggs, or win with wedge, biggs, gold, and craken, or even craken and some z's then that just shows that if you practice enough and get good you'll be overcome turrets even without autos or other turrets.
Hi everybody
The Regional Championship at Mons in Belgium organized by Cartazimut with Bedebile Store this last saturday
5 rounds, no top
40 players (19 from Belgium, 19 from France, 1 dutch and ... 1 american)
Results
http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/be/t3_tournament_results.php?tid=13838
And on 19 september, we organize our first Belgium National Championship, we're happy
Enjoy
Xavier
That's odd, did they not update the tournament rules to actually say that you do use MoV for pairings? I'm sure they did.The FFG software pairs by match wins.
Not match points and mov.
This is actually a bit nicer as top players aren't eliminating each other and it makes pairings a bit easier.
Edit, yup I checked it's all here pretty clear. Did they use the old FFG software or the new one? Sounds like it might have been the old software (not that I have used the new).
The FFG tournament rules state that you must do pairings first by tournament points, and then by MoV.
The new (still in beta) FFG software does not support pairings by MoV; this is a technical limitation. Strictly speaking their new software is not tournament legal.
Do what I say, not what I do.
I noticed it at MN FFG regional. Not disagreeing by what is in the FAQ. Just observation on what had happened.
Rekkon won Boise Regionals with RAC and Soontir. Soontir had Stealth with AT, PtL and RAC had Pred, Gunner, Isard, Engines and Rebel Captive.
The runner up was Super Dash (HLC, Outrider, Engines, Push, Kyle) and Vrill with HLC and Tactician. Rekkon beat it twice, once in swiss to make the cut (it was the top seed) and then again in the final game.
Top 4 was IGs with Stay on Target and HLCs not sure on upgrades and other was RAC (Vader) and Soontir (hull).
The pairing seemed to be randomly within the scoring so the best score didn't face the next top.
They fixed the top cut pairings, and I think they ended up correct. I was 8th going into the finals, and I believe my first opponent was the only undefeated guy. I did not get to observe all the top 8 lists, but from memory:
1st place: Rekkon
RAC + Predator + Gunner + Isard + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive
Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device + Push the Limit
2nd place: J_Chav
Dash + Push the Limit + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider + Engine Upgrade + Kyle
Vril + Heavy Laser Cannon + Tactician
3rd or 4th place:
IG-88B + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
IG-88D + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
5th-8th place:
Han + Predator + Engine Upgrade + C-3PO + R2-D2 + Millenium Falcon
3x Tala
I'll assume that the Fat Han + Talas was in ONE list out of the Top 8, not all 4.
Rekkon won Boise Regionals with RAC and Soontir. Soontir had Stealth with AT, PtL and RAC had Pred, Gunner, Isard, Engines and Rebel Captive.
The runner up was Super Dash (HLC, Outrider, Engines, Push, Kyle) and Vrill with HLC and Tactician. Rekkon beat it twice, once in swiss to make the cut (it was the top seed) and then again in the final game.
Top 4 was IGs with Stay on Target and HLCs not sure on upgrades and other was RAC (Vader) and Soontir (hull).
The pairing seemed to be randomly within the scoring so the best score didn't face the next top.
They fixed the top cut pairings, and I think they ended up correct. I was 8th going into the finals, and I believe my first opponent was the only undefeated guy. I did not get to observe all the top 8 lists, but from memory:
1st place: Rekkon
RAC + Predator + Gunner + Isard + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive
Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device + Push the Limit
2nd place: J_Chav
Dash + Push the Limit + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider + Engine Upgrade + Kyle
Vril + Heavy Laser Cannon + Tactician
3rd or 4th place:
IG-88B + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
IG-88D + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
5th-8th place:
Han + Predator + Engine Upgrade + C-3PO + R2-D2 + Millenium Falcon
3x Tala
I'll assume that the Fat Han + Talas was in ONE list out of the Top 8, not all 4.
MJ, that is correct.
Boise Idaho Regional with 43 players, 12 used first round byes
Swiss standings were
#1) Eric Brown - Texas (lost to #8)
Paul Heavers championship list
#2) Jason Wadsworth - Utah (won #7, lost to #3)
Soontir + PTL, Hull, Autothrusters
RAC + Vader, RC, Gunner, Predator, Engine
#3) Justin Chavez - Utah (won #6, won #2, lost #8)
Dash + Push the Limit + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider + Engine Upgrade + Kyle
Vrill + Heavy Laser Cannon + Tactician
#4) Andrew Miller - Montana (won #5 but lost to #8 next round)
IG-88B + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
IG-88D + Heavy Laser Cannon + Autothrusters + Fire Control System + Inertial Dampeners + IG-2000 + Stay on Target
#5) Bryce Nielsen - Utah (lost to #4)
Han and Jan Ors list
Jan had chewbacca and hull
#6) Mike Cline (lost to #3)
Dash list that didn't have outrider!
#7) Paul Davis - Utah - This was me and I used Hsu's list...lost to #2 which was also my only loss in swiss as well. However while prepping for the tourney, I scrimmaged and I won against him (when it didn't matter : )
Wedge + DTF, R2D2, Shield
Biggs
Stressbot
Bandit
#8) Ryan Voigt - Minnesota - Won the tournament
RAC + Predator + Gunner + Isard + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive
Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device + Push the Limit
