They could also introduce missions/objectives. That's something that would shake the entire game up without having to upgrade every ship.

Missions merely change what is on top. It is not something that seemed to create balance in Attack Wing.

Attack wing isn't a good metric for the validity of game mechanics of any kind imo

Attack wing isn't a good metric for the validity of game mechanics of any kind imo

Generally, no. But missions still could not find balance in their unbalance, I do not see why they would find balance with our "unbalance".

And you will pardon me if I dismiss "but I want something different at the top" arguements.

They could also introduce missions/objectives. That's something that would shake the entire game up without having to upgrade every ship.

Attack wing isn't a good metric for the validity of game mechanics of any kind imo

Generally, no. But missions still could not find balance in their unbalance, I do not see why they would find balance with our "unbalance".

And you will pardon me if I dismiss "but I want something different at the top" arguements.

Dismiss away

Just know that attack wing isn't a great comparison because it has problems well beyond xwing. If anything good could have been said about 5, it's "well at least it's not attack wing"

Objectives work wonders for game balance and, more importantly, replay ability. They work wonders in more robust game systems such as war machine and armada

The only real reason to not use them is if xwing just wasntcdesigned with them in mind, which may well be the case

Yeah, and that's why the current meta and upcoming ships excite me. I see great potential in the future of this game.

Jacob

Jerez de la Frontera, Spain

June 6, 2015

Player vs Player

Attendance: 45

• Winner: Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Fire-Control System + Rebel Captive + ACD; Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics; 3x Academy Pilot

I'm sorry. Phantoms are nerfed and can't win. This is not allowed.

Sure they can, green dice willing.

Well, with such a broad definition, I can understand where the math seems so dire. That definition of Fat seems like it's too encompassing. I'd like to know why you say that 'any 2 ship list = fat'. I don't agree with that myself.

Already explained in the same post.

Snipped:

I define any 2-ship list as automatically fat. By definition, the MoV advantages directly translate to the per-game victory condition if it goes to time, and the Swiss ranking tiebreakers. You don't need to have a regenerating or C-3P0 ship for this to be true. Specifically in regards to the victory condition, going to time still happens occasionally in 75 minute rounds, and even if it doesn't go to time it still gives significant tactical advantages to the fatter list.

On a side note, at our MA Regionals I know of one player that missed making the cut (4-2) because his opponent ran away and won at time with a 1HP fattie when time was called. Said player took several minutes to place his dial, which forced it to be the last round. We could digress on the issue of lack of partial points and slow-play, but the point is that having a Fat Fortress or 2 ship list can frequently end in this scenario. In this scenario the "less fat" list automatically loses if the game goes to time.

In my case, I only went 4-2, but I didn't lose a ship during any of my victories (2HP IG88B for the win!), so my MoV was good enough by 21 points to walk home with Shield tokens. My round 5 loss was to the tournament winner, and was easily the worst luck I have had in 50+ games with BroBots, so overall I don't feel too bad about the day, being my first ever Regional.

2 ship lists are fat, and the scoring system is broken without partial points. That's why so many players are taking 2 ships. It won't change until the scoring system changes, or some cheaper ship becomes so heinously overpowered that it starts to dislodge everything else.

I think one thing that is overlooked and a major variable (With the number of ships) is fatigue; this may help explain why the 2 ship often seem to do better. Everyone knows you make more mistakes the more tired you get especially in a 5-6 round day plus cut. The simple fact is more ships require a lot more brain effort to watch bumps, play effects, landing on obstacles etc. Of course, we can test this objectivity by looking at round 1 pairings (Random pairings) and see if 2 ships do just as well as 4+ ship builds or how well winning is correlated with respect to the round, or perhaps look at a timer to see how long it takes to place your dials given your number of ships and what round you are in. I predict, your time deciding on moves increases and/or mistakes increase as a factor with the number of ships and which round you are in. This equals, on average, more damage and in the end losses.

Well, with such a broad definition, I can understand where the math seems so dire. That definition of Fat seems like it's too encompassing. I'd like to know why you say that 'any 2 ship list = fat'. I don't agree with that myself.

Already explained in the same post.

Snipped:

I define any 2-ship list as automatically fat. By definition, the MoV advantages directly translate to the per-game victory condition if it goes to time, and the Swiss ranking tiebreakers. You don't need to have a regenerating or C-3P0 ship for this to be true. Specifically in regards to the victory condition, going to time still happens occasionally in 75 minute rounds, and even if it doesn't go to time it still gives significant tactical advantages to the fatter list.

On a side note, at our MA Regionals I know of one player that missed making the cut (4-2) because his opponent ran away and won at time with a 1HP fattie when time was called. Said player took several minutes to place his dial, which forced it to be the last round. We could digress on the issue of lack of partial points and slow-play, but the point is that having a Fat Fortress or 2 ship list can frequently end in this scenario. In this scenario the "less fat" list automatically loses if the game goes to time.

In my case, I only went 4-2, but I didn't lose a ship during any of my victories (2HP IG88B for the win!), so my MoV was good enough by 21 points to walk home with Shield tokens. My round 5 loss was to the tournament winner, and was easily the worst luck I have had in 50+ games with BroBots, so overall I don't feel too bad about the day, being my first ever Regional.

2 ship lists are fat, and the scoring system is broken without partial points. That's why so many players are taking 2 ships. It won't change until the scoring system changes, or some cheaper ship becomes so heinously overpowered that it starts to dislodge everything else.

I think one thing that is overlooked and a major variable (With the number of ships) is fatigue; this may help explain why the 2 ship often seem to do better. Everyone knows you make more mistakes the more tired you get especially in a 5-6 round day plus cut. The simple fact is more ships require a lot more brain effort to watch bumps, play effects, landing on obstacles etc. Of course, we can test this objectivity by looking at round 1 pairings (Random pairings) and see if 2 ships do just as well as 4+ ship builds or how well winning is correlated with respect to the round, or perhaps look at a timer to see how long it takes to place your dials given your number of ships and what round you are in. I predict, your time deciding on moves increases and/or mistakes increase as a factor with the number of ships and which round you are in. This equals, on average, more damage and in the end losses.

I imagine this is true. And the more ships you have, the more likely you are to run in formations as well, further increasing the possibility that you'll bump with mistakes.

I don't know about that. Bumping a B and bumping Fel have disproportionate consequences. Most of these more common top lists have at least one challenging ship.

I don't know about that. Bumping a B and bumping Fel have disproportionate consequences. Most of these more common top lists have at least one challenging ship.

That's a fair point. Loosing your actions with Soontir can easily mean your Soontir will not be there at the end of the turn.

I'm dropping down form a 5 ship list to a 3 ship list for that reason. By game 4 or 5 it becomes more of a chore trying to maintain formation and remember which one you wanted to move first.

I was the other pilot to go to the Finals in KC. Took Fat Han as a safe bet. I flew poorly against the Brobots that Aaron Bonar flew. Next time, Gadget!

Jerez de la Frontera, Spain

June 6, 2015

Player vs Player

Attendance: 45

List Juggler: N/A

Links:

• Lists: http://foro.escuadronpicaro.es/t6421-listas-regional-jerez#95091

• Winner: Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Fire-Control System + Rebel Captive + ACD; Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics; 3x Academy Pilot
• 2nd place: IG88B&C + Veteran Instincts + Heavy Laser Cannon + Advanced Sensors + Inertial Dampeners + Autothrusters + title

Very happy to see the old squad can still perform with the new Decloak! Great result and it appears an excellent win for a tough final match up!

Of course post nerf whisper is still viable, you still get to candy cane willy nilly and get 15 free actions a turn with essentially a 4/4 statline.

Of course post nerf whisper is still viable, you still get to candy cane willy nilly and get 15 free actions a turn with essentially a 4/4 statline.

I don't think you're doing it right if you're whisper is getting 15 actions a turn...

Of course post nerf whisper is still viable, you still get to candy cane willy nilly and get 15 free actions a turn with essentially a 4/4 statline.

I don't think you're doing it right if you're whisper is getting 15 actions a turn...

He's just "that guy", ignore him.

PGS: "Phantom OP, Phantom OP, nerf the Phantom!"

FFG: -nerfs Phantom-

PGS: "Phantom OP, Phantom OP, nerf the Phantom harder !"

Of course post nerf whisper is still viable, you still get to candy cane willy nilly and get 15 free actions a turn with essentially a 4/4 statline.

I don't think you're doing it right if you're whisper is getting 15 actions a turn...

He's just "that guy", ignore him.

PGS: "Phantom OP, Phantom OP, nerf the Phantom!"

FFG: -nerfs Phantom-

PGS: "Phantom OP, Phantom OP, nerf the Phantom harder !"

Fun fact: replace "Phantom" with IG-88[everything], Han, Chirpy, Soontir, or anything else that has ever won a tournament, anywhere, ever, and you have at least half of PGS's posting history.

Of course post nerf whisper is still viable, you still get to candy cane willy nilly and get 15 free actions a turn with essentially a 4/4 statline.

I don't think you're doing it right if you're whisper is getting 15 actions a turn...

or maybe you're doing it way too well

NSW Regional

Sydney, Australia

13 June, 2015

Good Games Town Hall

Attendance: 40

List Juggler: TBC

Winner:

63 Oicunn, Pred, Gunner, Isard, Vader, Engine, Title

36 Soontir, PTL, Title, Autos, Shield

-99-

2nd Place:

54 Dash, PTL, HLC, Kyle, Title

46 Corran, VI, FCS, R2-D2, Engine

-100-

3rd (lost to winner):

Boba, VI, Autoblaster, Engine, Dampeners

Pirate x 4

4th (lost to 2nd):

BBBBZ

5th (lost to 4th):

Dash, Pred, HLC, Recce Spec

Corran, VI, FCS, R2-D2, Engine

6th (lost to 2nd):

Xizor, VI, FCS, Auto, Dampeners

Pirates x 5

7th (lost to winner):

Corran, PTL, Sensor Jammer, R2-D2

WSF, Mangler, Intel Agent, APL, Title

Bandit

8th (lost to 3rd):

Whisper, VI, FCS, ACD

Soontir, PTL, Title, Auto, Stealth

AP

AP

NSW Regional

Sydney, Australia

13 June, 2015

Good Games Town Hall

Attendance: 40

List Juggler: TBC

Winner:

63 Oicunn, Pred, Gunner, Isard, Vader, Engine, Title

36 Soontir, PTL, Title, Autos, Shield

-99-

2nd Place:

54 Dash, PTL, HLC, Kyle, Title

46 Corran, VI, FCS, R2-D2, Engine

-100-

3rd (lost to winner):

Boba, VI, Autoblaster, Engine, Dampeners

Pirate x 4

4th (lost to 2nd):

BBBBZ

5th (lost to 4th):

Dash, Pred, HLC, Recce Spec

Corran, VI, FCS, R2-D2, Engine

6th (lost to 2nd):

Xizor, VI, FCS, Auto, Dampeners

Pirates x 5

7th (lost to winner):

Corran, PTL, Sensor Jammer, R2-D2

WSF, Mangler, Intel Agent, APL, Title

Bandit

8th (lost to 3rd):

Whisper, VI, FCS, ACD

Soontir, PTL, Title, Auto, Stealth

AP

AP

I believe I recognize that winning list.

Did you win again Morgan?

This time with Oicunn though?

Twitch Feed for Fargo Regional:

http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxcnc

I'm noticing that as the season progresses, we are seeing almost as many Corran Horn in the top 8 as we are fat turrets of all types.