I'll say again, Turrets are used so much because they are tanky, and counter arc dodgers. Nerf the turrets, and arc dodgers will be worse then they are now.

With the ridiculous action economy granted to ships like Han, Chiraneau and Dash, they may as well be arc dodgers themselves. Yes, it costs a few more points for that Engine Upgrade, but **** if it doesn't get that ship out of arc.

Combine that with their native abilities and something like Predator. Now you've got a ship that can spend its action to arc dodge, or not even be facing a ship at all, maintain its shot and modify die. Arc dodgers are supposed to pay the price of not having a shot in exchange for not being blasted away. Arc-dodging turrets don't give a ****.

Oh, I understand. As a Z-95 swarmer though, for the most part turrets don't give me any issue. However, arc dodgers are a pain in the butt. I rely on my numbers and blocking to help me, but it doesn't help that much against them. If turrets get nerfed, they get even stronger. Right now, it looks like I have to use a full Bugzapper list to take on Fels; though I'd love for them to have some backup, in playtesting it didn't help much. You don't hear much from the swarmer's point of view because there are so few of them at this time. It's the rock-paper-scissors thing where one side is not seen much, as the other two kinda just add the last one to themselves instead.

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

So I guess I've been playing the game wrong. I set my dial, I predict where my opponent will be so I can catch them in arc or do a maneuver out of there arc or go to block.

I thought it was only dash who could ignore obstacles? I didn't know the other 11 obstacles could ignore them? Also you're telling me that even when I'm blocked I don't have to follow those rules! Heck yeah I guess next time I'll take my action and shoot the guy who blocked me.

I guess I've been doing the planning all wrong too. I usually have a solid plan of where I'm gonna be a few moves from now with contigency plans to back it up. I probably should just spin my dials randomly and let fate decide.

Also I guess when I've been using my missiles and making sure I have auto thruster ships on arc that I've been doing that all wrong too. I guess I should just keep shooting down all those auto thruster ig and fels out of arc since I wouldn't ever want them in arc.

Also I don't need actions? Sweet! I guess you're right. Turrets are completely broken! Here I was thinking that you were just bitter and upset because it sounded like you can't beat good players who fly turrets but it can't be that. I mean with that evidence you showed me I'm amazed ffg even released them since they don't even play the same game as normal ships.

The problem isn`t just the turrets. Its the turrets and all the other factors.

-I can shoot 360

-MOV favors expensive ships that are hard to kill

-I can automatically get 2 evades. 4 if Lando rolls really good.

-I don`t need an action to alter my attack dice.

Tell me how do you us mere mortals "outfly" that. When the dice are fickle and all I have are standard actions and a 90 degree fire arc? And before I can get in the way they turn and now I am chasing.

Yes skill is important. But with some lists, if you get the wrong match up your game is done.

You said it yourself with matchups sometimes you just play against the absolute worst match up and it sucks. 90% of the time you don't want to be chasing them so pick where you want the fight to occur and stay there. Break off and regroup if you have too. Fickle dice are just that fickle dice. A big part of the game is putting the odds in your favor. Having good action economy and ways to modify dice help a ton. I was playing a buddy and he was so disappointed that his ties never seemed to hit anything. I told him that because he kept evading and and barrel rolling he was leaving the dice up to the dice gods. Being able to have a focus and reroll is extremely powerful and there are many ways to do it outside of turrets.

Has anyone here never beaten a fat turret list? If you've beaten it once then you can do it again. There are always strategies and counters. If you've never beaten one then keep playing against them until you finally do it and remember how you did so so you can hopefully do it again in a similar fashion.

Whisper (with VI, FCS and ACD) and RAC (PTL, Engine, Ysanne, Rebel Captive) picked up a win at one of the UK regionals this weekend (and flown by one of the UK's fine female players no less!)

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

Has anyone here never beaten a fat turret list? If you've beaten it once then you can do it again. There are always strategies and counters. If you've never beaten one then keep playing against them until you finally do it and remember how you did so so you can hopefully do it again in a similar fashion.

Beat tons of them. I like to eat them for breakfast, with eggs and salsa.

Tasty.

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

Has anyone here never beaten a fat turret list? If you've beaten it once then you can do it again. There are always strategies and counters. If you've never beaten one then keep playing against them until you finally do it and remember how you did so so you can hopefully do it again in a similar fashion.

Beat tons of them. I like to eat them for breakfast, with eggs and salsa.

Tasty.

That's that attitude people need to have. You'd think they were indestructible by the way some people talk.

With 60 minute rounds they might as well be unless you are running a swarm, or a control list. The problem with fat han is the time limit; in a 75 minute round it shouldn't be as big a problem. I may just be a little sick of them because that's all the local meta has is turrets wave 3 hit and it was all yt1300, fat falcons started before wave 4, wave 4 hit it stayed the same, wave 5 hit and its both yts and decimators.

Whisper (with VI, FCS and ACD) and RAC (PTL, Engine, Ysanne, Rebel Captive) picked up a win at one of the UK regionals this weekend (and flown by one of the UK's fine female players no less!)

Which UK Regionals? Got a link or some more info?

Whisper (with VI, FCS and ACD) and RAC (PTL, Engine, Ysanne, Rebel Captive) picked up a win at one of the UK regionals this weekend (and flown by one of the UK's fine female players no less!)

Which UK Regionals? Got a link or some more info?

It was the one in Northern Ireland - Replay Games. Details in UK Facebook page, 34 player turnout.

With 60 minute rounds they might as well be unless you are running a swarm, or a control list. The problem with fat han is the time limit; in a 75 minute round it shouldn't be as big a problem. I may just be a little sick of them because that's all the local meta has is turrets wave 3 hit and it was all yt1300, fat falcons started before wave 4, wave 4 hit it stayed the same, wave 5 hit and its both yts and decimators.

But that's the rub isn't it? While a lot of lists are competitive in an untimed game, tourneys are more restrictive, and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Which means you better bring enough red dice to win in 60-75 minutes (at least I've heard 75-minute rounds are a thing, most I ever see are 60).

So, is that a turret problem or a tourney problem? Neither, it just is what it is.

As far as your local meta, fly anything swarmy and watch those turrets melt fast. I favor B-wings, but there are plenty of other options.

I do think Scum opened up the meta quite a bit. While I was at first a little disappointed to see so many fat turrets in the top 8 of Regionals results, it makes sense, because it favors what you need in tourneys: durability, easier piloting, less tourney fatigue. Since Scum doesn't have a fat turret, it lags behind. On the other hand, it does have some counter-meta options.

OK, so we still are mostly in the dark on this weekend's Regionals, probably because many of them are international. but here is what we have for Week 4.

Week 4: May 16-17

Brussels, Belgium

Vilnius, Lithuania

Bydgoszcz, Poland

Bangor, UK

West Berlin, New Jersey, US

Stockton, UK

Has anyone here never beaten a fat turret list? If you've beaten it once then you can do it again. There are always strategies and counters. If you've never beaten one then keep playing against them until you finally do it and remember how you did so so you can hopefully do it again in a similar fashion.

Absolutely. Dual Aggressor loves to see fat turrets. They taste delicious with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

Has anyone here never beaten a fat turret list? If you've beaten it once then you can do it again. There are always strategies and counters. If you've never beaten one then keep playing against them until you finally do it and remember how you did so so you can hopefully do it again in a similar fashion.

Absolutely. Dual Aggressor loves to see fat turrets. They taste delicious with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

Do they? I´m no expert but Fat Han with EU and Zs does have some play by boosting out of at least one arc while blocking the clumsy IGs with those Zs. Super-Dash does also have great potential to move out of IG arcs with his PS7 and BR and EU.

Do they? I´m no expert but Fat Han with EU and Zs does have some play by boosting out of at least one arc while blocking the clumsy IGs with those Zs. Super-Dash does also have great potential to move out of IG arcs with his PS7 and BR and EU.

It depends on the build, of course. Not every turret player takes Engine Upgrade. Sometimes they work themselves into a position where they can't arc dodge with it due to obstacles or board edges; sometimes it doesn't provide enough movement to get them out of arc anyway.

The bottom line is that it is possible to beat fat turrets. It may not be easy; there's at least some validity to the argument that it shouldn't be easy to vape a ship that a player has sunk 60+ points into. All I know is that I don't mind flying against fat turrets as IG because Autothrusters means that I generally get one free evade every time I get shot at, giving the Aggressor the kind of survivability it doesn't always have against non-turreted lists.

After 10-20 games messing around with a few of the more interesting top 8's I've settled on a favorite:

2nd place (Aaron Bonnar): Guri + LoneWolf + Autothrusters + Virago + SensorJammer; Palob + Opportunist + Blaster Turret + Moldy Crow + Recon Specialist + Engine; Thug + BTL-A4 + ICT

For several obvious reasons this list has to be named K.O.

It's one of the most enjoyable and dastardly lists I've ever flown in X-wing. That Palob is absolute murder. The combo is beyond murder.

I think of that Palob build as the "KILL IT WITH FIRE" pattern of Palob, because that's what is going through you're opponent's head. Each turn it's still on the board is another pound of flesh it carves out of your list.

With 60 minute rounds they might as well be unless you are running a swarm, or a control list. The problem with fat han is the time limit; in a 75 minute round it shouldn't be as big a problem. I may just be a little sick of them because that's all the local meta has is turrets wave 3 hit and it was all yt1300, fat falcons started before wave 4, wave 4 hit it stayed the same, wave 5 hit and its both yts and decimators.

Fat falcon has been dominating tournaments since wave 4 when c3p0 and Zs dropped. It's still one of the best list just no longer completely broken and it was, don't fool yourself to thinking it wasn't the best list by far. Wave 5/6 gave it some more fat turret competition from the imperials when chin was able to team up with whisper and then fel, but never solved the issue of how stong the list was.

Autothrusters never killed the turret it made chin/fel team up to be just as strong as fat Han and made interceptors relevant again.

The only thing that will break the turret meta is a big power creep and that's coming with the advanced fix. Tie advanced are going to out last the fat Falcons and the tie advanced biggest weakness will be arc dogers, but they will still be the list to beat.

There is no nerf to turrets needed. Two ship turret builds do not have the red dice to kill a 5 hull 3 evade ship in a single turn. Unlike tie swarms which stopped being a major threat to turrets in wave 4 tie advanced will require at least two rounds of fat Han and friends to kill one advanced. In that same time tie advanced lists are throwing out 12-16 red dice a turn on turrets with garaunteed crits which are a huge bane to turrets as well.

I have been the biggest fat Falcon hating player since I first saw c3p0 and the Zs in the spoilers. I knew just by looking at the numbers it was broken but it's time is coming to a close. Turrets will still be competitive it just won't own the meta. You just have to laugh at people who say there is nothing wrong with fat Falcons or the fat turret meta. The proof is in the numbers. Fat turrets have been winning every major event since wave 4.

A 38 point HWK??? Jeesh.

After 10-20 games messing around with a few of the more interesting top 8's I've settled on a favorite:

2nd place (Aaron Bonnar): Guri + LoneWolf + Autothrusters + Virago + SensorJammer; Palob + Opportunist + Blaster Turret + Moldy Crow + Recon Specialist + Engine; Thug + BTL-A4 + ICT

For several obvious reasons this list has to be named K.O.

It's one of the most enjoyable and dastardly lists I've ever flown in X-wing. That Palob is absolute murder. The combo is beyond murder.

One of my first wave 6 builds was a very similar PS5 Aces variant with Guri, Palob, and Drea. Personally, I would rather have K4 Security Droid than Recon Spec, so you can F+TL with 4 dice every turn. You know that Palob is going to be target #1 anyway so you might as well maximize his damage. Then make Guri more of a threat with at least FCS for the free target lock, or Advanced Sensors for better maneuverability or pre dial TL + bump/focus. Being a tank is nice but not super helpful when you are the last target. Lone Wolf + Sensor Jammer is annoying, but doesn't help whittle down the enemy forces at all in the start of the game, where things really start to snowball.

It's a nice list, and Aaron flies everything well, I just see some tweaks that I would make for my playstyle.

Yea I can see that. I play advS ptl Corran though. I just naturally gravitate towards defense, and that guri is a late game turret-slayer nearly on par with Corran at a significant discount.

I will say that my spidey-sense doesn't appreciate how easy the Hwk can go down, but there's nothing to be done about it.

Yea I can see that. I play advS ptl Corran though. I just naturally gravitate towards defense, and that guri is a late game turret-slayer nearly on par with Corran at a significant discount.

I will say that my spidey-sense doesn't appreciate how easy the Hwk can go down, but there's nothing to be done about it.

My first thought was to add Serissu with PtL or something instead of the BTL Y, and try to keep her at Range 3 in tandem with the HWK at Range 2. I have no idea how critical that Ion is to the build, but it gives your opponent a few terrible options. Do you shoot at a turtled 3 or 4 AGI Serissu to get rid of the defensive rerolls, the 2 AGI tokened up HWK receiving the rerolls, or the Lone Wolf 3 AGI autothrustered Sensor Jammer Guri? None of them seem particularly soft, and if people choose to go after Serissu, you've just basically added 3 HP to Palob's lifespan (behind 3 agility).

Don't like the additional loss of firepower, but this basically reminds me of some other Jan or Keyan or Wedge or Opportunist lists I've seen - Put a lot into that one big, reliable gun rather than a few mediocre guns.

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

So I guess I've been playing the game wrong. I set my dial, I predict where my opponent will be so I can catch them in arc or do a maneuver out of there arc or go to block.

I thought it was only dash who could ignore obstacles? I didn't know the other 11 obstacles could ignore them? Also you're telling me that even when I'm blocked I don't have to follow those rules! Heck yeah I guess next time I'll take my action and shoot the guy who blocked me.

I guess I've been doing the planning all wrong too. I usually have a solid plan of where I'm gonna be a few moves from now with contigency plans to back it up. I probably should just spin my dials randomly and let fate decide.

Also I guess when I've been using my missiles and making sure I have auto thruster ships on arc that I've been doing that all wrong too. I guess I should just keep shooting down all those auto thruster ig and fels out of arc since I wouldn't ever want them in arc.

Also I don't need actions? Sweet! I guess you're right. Turrets are completely broken! Here I was thinking that you were just bitter and upset because it sounded like you can't beat good players who fly turrets but it can't be that. I mean with that evidence you showed me I'm amazed ffg even released them since they don't even play the same game as normal ships.

The problem isn`t just the turrets. Its the turrets and all the other factors.

-I can shoot 360

-MOV favors expensive ships that are hard to kill

-I can automatically get 2 evades. 4 if Lando rolls really good.

-I don`t need an action to alter my attack dice.

Tell me how do you us mere mortals "outfly" that. When the dice are fickle and all I have are standard actions and a 90 degree fire arc? And before I can get in the way they turn and now I am chasing.

Yes skill is important. But with some lists, if you get the wrong match up your game is done.

You said it yourself with matchups sometimes you just play against the absolute worst match up and it sucks. 90% of the time you don't want to be chasing them so pick where you want the fight to occur and stay there. Break off and regroup if you have too. Fickle dice are just that fickle dice. A big part of the game is putting the odds in your favor. Having good action economy and ways to modify dice help a ton. I was playing a buddy and he was so disappointed that his ties never seemed to hit anything. I told him that because he kept evading and and barrel rolling he was leaving the dice up to the dice gods. Being able to have a focus and reroll is extremely powerful and there are many ways to do it outside of turrets.

Has anyone here never beaten a fat turret list? If you've beaten it once then you can do it again. There are always strategies and counters. If you've never beaten one then keep playing against them until you finally do it and remember how you did so so you can hopefully do it again in a similar fashion.

Great idea. Except no matter how accurate your dice are it doesnt matter if the Chewie with Lando rolls 2 evades. Or if the Chirpy build you face just completely dodges gou arcs when you set up as best you can. IT becomes something where my play has a lot less of an impact than it should.

My point is the Fat turrets take away the randomness of the dice and the need for the right action at the right time.

Yes fat tuurets can be beat. But the likelihood of them getting beat is less than a typical list. The action economy, raw health, and tournament format makes it highly unlikely to be beat.

Instead of preaching "fly better" it should be preached "fly better witH a fat turret."

The 23 point slot is the one that doesn't quite seem to completely synchronize with the rest of the list yet. Right now it has a Warthog, but I keep experimenting to find something that does a better job in that position.

Did some googling, Brussels had 36 players. Hopefully we can get some info from them!

https://m.facebook.com/outpostbrussels/albums/1599466820311157/

I was speaking with an Italian X-Winger who told me his regionals will only be 50 minutes rounds. Crazy!

After 10-20 games messing around with a few of the more interesting top 8's I've settled on a favorite:

2nd place (Aaron Bonnar): Guri + LoneWolf + Autothrusters + Virago + SensorJammer; Palob + Opportunist + Blaster Turret + Moldy Crow + Recon Specialist + Engine; Thug + BTL-A4 + ICT

For several obvious reasons this list has to be named K.O.

It's one of the most enjoyable and dastardly lists I've ever flown in X-wing. That Palob is absolute murder. The combo is beyond murder.

I must have missed that list when looking through the top8s. I definitely like it. I am always looking for new things to run with my warthogs.