Auto-thrusters were a good nerf to turrets. Fix MoV and you will see the field spread out. Another direct nerf to turrets and it will just become Soontir/Whisper-Wing.

Auto-thrusters were a good nerf to turrets. Fix MoV and you will see the field spread out. Another direct nerf to turrets and it will just become Soontir/Whisper-Wing.

ugh, no

auto-thrusters are not a nerf

they are quite explicitly an upgrade and also the only reason interceptors can reliably compete in a game that inexplicably emphasizes maneuvering and yet has a subtype of ship that completely ignores it when selecting targets to shoot at

If you're defining nerf as making something less effective, then Autothrusters are most definitely a turret nerf. Try hitting AT LW Guri with Mango Dash sometime.

If you're just randomly narrowing the definition of the term then this is a fairly silly discussion.

Can anyone from NJ regional give us top 8 lists?

They are most definitely a turret nerf. Try hitting AT LW Guri with Mango Dash sometime.

Can anyone from NJ regional give us top 8 lists?

again, no

a nerf would imply that every other ship benefited instead of a very select few who can actually take the upgrade , two of which needed it to even show up to competitive tables

honestly, Mango Dash is more of a nerf to HLC Dash than auto-thrusters are to turrets

calling auto-thrusters somehow a "nerf" misconstrues the actual problem with (primary weapon) turrets and how they adversely affect gameplay (And somehow implies that Interceptors, Vipers, Aggressors and A-wings having it somehow helps the rest of the cast out), and it also does a disservice to how useful auto-thrusters are in general (no more popping to HLCs )

They are a buff and a necessary one in order to overcome the nigh-failproof nature of range 1-3 turrets

How do you see the game developing after another nerf to turrets? With so many already unfielded ships for Rebels, what do you think Rebel players could field?

How do you see the game developing after another nerf to turrets? With so many already unfielded ships for Rebels, what do you think Rebel players could field?

I hope to see less primary turrets, more of everything else

only two rebel ships are primary weapon turrets and one of them barely even uses its crappy 2 dice primary

And I have to keep stressing primary turrets because Dash isn't a problem (not as in he's easy to beat, he's not, but as in mangler sucks and HLC has an actual positioning weakness that can be played around) and he doesn't seem to be malignant like Han and Cheri.

More Dash, less Han would already be a change for the better imo.

Otherwise, there's BBBBZ, control lists, E-wings in more situations than just the male angler fish to the female angler fish in 2-ship builds, plus all the bombing silliniess and new 2ndary turret coming in WAve 7

Try hitting AT LW Guri with Mango Dash sometime.

Or people could ya know just beat them? Seems like a better thing to do than call for nerfs.

Tough competition in NJ regionals. Rumor has it that Paul Heaver started 0-2 with a 4 ship Biggs/Stresshog/B FCS/A.

Haha, yes! It was my first 0-2 drop in quite a while! I went into Saturday wanting to play: Rebels, no turret since I spent all of 2014 playing turrets, and not the same list I top 4'ed at WV with. I threw together a PS4 list with ABXY, just to have a variety of ships, but wasn't very excited about it. After the first two rounds, I noticed I was playing terribly, not really enjoying the list, and my friends from college and HS were going to see Mad Max later. So, I salvaged something out of the day!

Or people could ya know just beat them? Seems like a better thing to do than call for nerfs.

going by regional results, apparently not

anyway, my gripe with them isn't how powerful they are, just how they completely ignore most of the core rules of the game and turn it into a dice-fest

win or lose, it's a boring experience that does a great disservice to an otherwise amazing game

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

I'll say again, Turrets are used so much because they are tanky, and counter arc dodgers. Nerf the turrets, and arc dodgers will be worse then they are now.

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

This discussion really needs to be taken to a different thread.

I'll say again, Turrets are used so much because they are tanky, and counter arc dodgers. Nerf the turrets, and arc dodgers will be worse then they are now.

Combine that with their native abilities and something like Predator. Now you've got a ship that can spend its action to arc dodge, or not even be facing a ship at all, maintain its shot and modify die. Arc dodgers are supposed to pay the price of not having a shot in exchange for not being blasted away. Arc-dodging turrets don't give a ****.

Also, (not you, Mega) saying 'beat them' or 'play better' is an atrocious argument given that all but perhaps three winning lists so far contain decked-out turrets. This pattern is nothing new because they're capable of being in the middle of ******* nowhere and maintaining a shot while remaining insanely difficult to kill.

EDIT: Posted too soon, dumb phone.

Overall, Scum and Villainy has been healthy for the game. Top 8s have been insanely diverse for regionals, which is awesome. But seeing almost the same cookie-cutter winners is discouraging. I don't doubt these players are good, but fat turret lists do a lot to negate player skill on either end of the table.

Some of the guys in my play group who use all sorts of lists are taking turrets to regionals just because they want to win. Nothing wrong with wanting to win, but there is something wrong when they admit a fat turret list is (practically, barring extreme luck) the only thing at the moment giving them that chance.

Rainbow, we're discussing the propensity of turret lists to win regionals. How are we off-topic?

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

I thought it was only dash who could ignore obstacles? I didn't know the other 11 obstacles could ignore them? Also you're telling me that even when I'm blocked I don't have to follow those rules! Heck yeah I guess next time I'll take my action and shoot the guy who blocked me.

I guess I've been doing the planning all wrong too. I usually have a solid plan of where I'm gonna be a few moves from now with contigency plans to back it up. I probably should just spin my dials randomly and let fate decide.

Also I guess when I've been using my missiles and making sure I have auto thruster ships on arc that I've been doing that all wrong too. I guess I should just keep shooting down all those auto thruster ig and fels out of arc since I wouldn't ever want them in arc.

Also I don't need actions? Sweet! I guess you're right. Turrets are completely broken! Here I was thinking that you were just bitter and upset because it sounded like you can't beat good players who fly turrets but it can't be that. I mean with that evidence you showed me I'm amazed ffg even released them since they don't even play the same game as normal ships.

I'll say again, Turrets are used so much because they are tanky, and counter arc dodgers. Nerf the turrets, and arc dodgers will be worse then they are now.

With the ridiculous action economy granted to ships like Han, Chiraneau and Dash, they may as well be arc dodgers themselves. Yes, it costs a few more points for that Engine Upgrade, but **** if it doesn't get that ship out of arc.

Combine that with their native abilities and something like Predator. Now you've got a ship that can spend its action to arc dodge, or not even be facing a ship at all, maintain its shot and modify die. Arc dodgers are supposed to pay the price of not having a shot in exchange for not being blasted away. Arc-dodging turrets don't give a ****.

Also, (not you, Mega) saying 'beat them' or 'play better' is an atrocious argument given that all but perhaps three winning lists so far contain decked-out turrets. This pattern is nothing new because they're capable of being in the middle of ******* nowhere and maintaining a shot while remaining insanely difficult to kill.

EDIT: Posted too soon, dumb phone.

Overall, Scum and Villainy has been healthy for the game. Top 8s have been insanely diverse for regionals, which is awesome. But seeing almost the same cookie-cutter winners is discouraging. I don't doubt these players are good, but fat turret lists do a lot to negate player skill on either end of the table.

Some of the guys in my play group who use all sorts of lists are taking turrets to regionals just because they want to win. Nothing wrong with wanting to win, but there is something wrong when they admit a fat turret list is (practically, barring extreme luck) the only thing at the moment giving them that chance.

Rainbow, we're discussing the propensity of turret lists to win regionals. How are we off-topic?

And this all adds up to why those Fat Turrets are so expensive. You could bring your 15 Z95s or your two Fat Turrets.

^exactly a ship that costs half or more of your points SHOULD be really **** good and hard to kill. Way more than a ship that only costs 1/8th

How do you see the game developing after another nerf to turrets? With so many already unfielded ships for Rebels, what do you think Rebel players could field?

When were turrets ever nerfed?

Rainbow, we're discussing the propensity of turret lists to win regionals. How are we off-topic?

Re-hashing the same ridiculous "turrets don't even have to worry about their maneuvers" nonsense isn't really contributing much.

We had Bydgoszcz Poland regionals yesterday. 36 players. TO did not ask for lists, so here's top 8 from my memory:

Winner:

35 Soontir Fel

Royal Guard TIE, Push the Limit, Stealth Device, Autothrusters

65 Rear Admiral Chiraneau

Predator, Rebel Captive, Ysanne Isard, Gunner, Engine Upgrade

Second place:

65 Rear Admiral Chiraneau

Predator, Rebel Captive, Ysanne Isard, Gunner, Engine Upgrade

35 Soontir Fel

Royal Guard TIE, Push the Limit, Hull Upgrade, Autothrusters

top4:

34 Keyan Farlander

Advanced Sensors, Stay on Target

54 Chewbacca

Predator, C-3PO, Gunner, Millennium Falcon

12 Bandit Squadron Pilot

top4:

49 IG88-B

Predator, Advanced Sensors, “Mangler” Cannon, Inertial Dampeners, IG-2000, Autothrusters

49 IG88-C

Predator, Advanced Sensors, “Mangler” Cannon, Inertial Dampeners, IG-2000, Autothrusters

top8:

42 Corran Horn

R2-D2, Fire-Control System, Veteran Instincts

58 Dash Rendar

Push the Limit, Heavy Laser Cannon, Kyle Katarn, Outrider, Engine Upgrade

top8 (first place after swiss, used SC bye):

50 IG88-B

Veteran Instincts, Fire-Control System, Ion Cannon, “Mangler” Cannon, Seismic Charges, IG-2000, Autothrusters

50 IG88-C

Veteran Instincts, Fire-Control System, Ion Cannon, “Mangler” Cannon, Seismic Charges, IG-2000, Autothrusters

top8:

45 Captain Oicunn

Darth Vader

33 Bounty Hunter

21 Omicron Group Pilot

(built specifically for 60 min rounds)

top8:

50 Commander Kenkirk

Determination, Darth Vader, Moff Jerjerrod

2x 25 Royal Guard Pilot

Push the Limit

Interesting fact: the winner is beginner actually, he's still learning the rules, it was his first big tournament. And to think that month ago I was showing him my tricks to avoid asteroids with big ships. Congratulations!

I want to know what that Fell Whisper Shuttle build had for upgrades on the shuttle.

That was me. It was just a normal doomshuttle. Omicron with Vader.

What core rules do they ignore? Most of this game is a dice fest.

you mean apart from that entire half of the game that revolves around setting dials, predicting opponents, accounting for obstacles, accounting for blocks, planning ahead, managing firing-arcs and whether or not you get actions...

So I guess I've been playing the game wrong. I set my dial, I predict where my opponent will be so I can catch them in arc or do a maneuver out of there arc or go to block.

I thought it was only dash who could ignore obstacles? I didn't know the other 11 obstacles could ignore them? Also you're telling me that even when I'm blocked I don't have to follow those rules! Heck yeah I guess next time I'll take my action and shoot the guy who blocked me.

I guess I've been doing the planning all wrong too. I usually have a solid plan of where I'm gonna be a few moves from now with contigency plans to back it up. I probably should just spin my dials randomly and let fate decide.

Also I guess when I've been using my missiles and making sure I have auto thruster ships on arc that I've been doing that all wrong too. I guess I should just keep shooting down all those auto thruster ig and fels out of arc since I wouldn't ever want them in arc.

Also I don't need actions? Sweet! I guess you're right. Turrets are completely broken! Here I was thinking that you were just bitter and upset because it sounded like you can't beat good players who fly turrets but it can't be that. I mean with that evidence you showed me I'm amazed ffg even released them since they don't even play the same game as normal ships.

-I can shoot 360

-MOV favors expensive ships that are hard to kill

-I can automatically get 2 evades. 4 if Lando rolls really good.

-I don`t need an action to alter my attack dice.

Tell me how do you us mere mortals "outfly" that. When the dice are fickle and all I have are standard actions and a 90 degree fire arc? And before I can get in the way they turn and now I am chasing.

Yes skill is important. But with some lists, if you get the wrong match up your game is done.

I like Autothrusters and Outmaneuver and Push the Limit. Those 1 and 0 defense dice those Fat Turrets have is their problem.

The "outfly/outplay" thing is a fallacy. We are here to play well. Why are you assuming you, or I, will play better than an opponent?

I may be a phantom scrub, but I hate playing nothing more than a 3PO Falcon Title.