• Top 8: Corran + PTL + Advanced Sensors + R2D2 + Engine Upgrade; Gold + Ion Cannon Turret + BTL-A4 + R3-A2; Gold + Ion Cannon Turret + BTL-A4 + Bomb loadout + Proximity Mine

Hell yes. Y-Wings are coming back, friends.

the outrider does have a range restriction, unless it's rolling the terribly inefficient mangler in which case it's still not getting +1 attack die at range 1

mangler outriders are like teeny tiny Han solos, they're just nibbling annoyances next to the idiocy of han and chiri in that they also can only be "outplayed" by dice, but they're incredibly easy to out roll (no guaranteed damage mitigation will do that to ya)

HLC Dash may be a fast bastard, but reliance on PTL (holy ****, honest to god block-able actions that matter ) and the range 1 bubble give you almost infinitely more counterplay options compared to "oh, I'm blocked? Guess I get to do everything anyway apart from evade/boost" and "oh, you can shoot me? I'm not on an asteroid, so I get to shoot you first"

Imo, I'd agree that all secondary weapon turrets are very acceptable because they have actual limitations (mangler outrider outside, but at least it sucks)

HLC Dash actually scares me more than Han. The only ship that made it easy to exploit the range 1 donut was the Phantom. I thought running Vader with engine upgrade would also be simple, but it really isn't. That large ship barrel roll + boost (assuming EU) covers an incredible distance, but I wouldn't be too bothered by if asteroids were actually an issue! A good Dash player can easily cut off avenues of approach using asteroids. I had no issues with HLC Dash until I realized how hard it was to actually exploit the range 1 donut relative to the difficulty of flying Dash.

The most viable option is to block and ability to do so consistently will depend on your list.

That's pretty much exactly the problem I had in my Top 8 match. If I tried to chase, he could keep in range of just a single ship fairly easily(he was to be fair pretty **** good at judging distances), if I slowed down...he could still do the same thing. If I got one of my stress causing ships in range to shoot at all, he'd simply not PTL. I'm sure there's things I could have done differently, but I feel the same way in regards to the asteroids. If Dash's ability was different(don't lose Perform Action but still roll damage dice, or vice versa) maybe it'd be a different story, but being able to ignore them entirely while moving makes trying to effectively follow him rough, and if you're already not fast enough to catch him it gets tricky trying to block.

If you're chasing turrets without auto thrusters then you're playing into his strengths. When your're behind them and moving first you're letting them control the engagement. Oh you're range 1 let boost or barrel roll. Oh you have tactician let me just boost to range 3... You need to break off and force him to come back towards you so you can potentially cut him off. Never ever chase turrets.

Earlier this year at a SC played a guy who brought 5 a wings with prockets. He set up in the left corner and I deployed right across from him. I could see his eyes getting bigger at the thought of me jousting him and him getting to roll 25 dice at my Yt's. I went 1 forward the first round and he of course screamed forward with a 5 and boost. Next turn he did his 5 and focused and I did 1 turns with boosts and right then and there I had just won the game. He would never get his prockets off at that point and my ships were faster and he could never block me. I stayed at range 2 and 3 all day and only let 1 ship ever catch me in arc. poor guy never realized that he should have broke off and tried again...

This is a really good teaching point during competitive play, is having the discipline to break off an engagement, taking a few rounds to regroup. I think with very durable ships and a distinct time limit forces alot of players to act too hastily and it often causes them to lose.

Against fast turrets you need to counter deploy Operation Scumbag (run while you have an mov lead or tie)

Some general things I've found helpful are:

Don't be afraid to take a turn or two to regroup esp if he's far. You won't beat him one on one with anything less than a sensor+ptl+r2d2 Ewing.

If he's skirting the edge, the middle is a great place to strike out from. Try to cut him off from there.

Move, more or less, as a group. You need to get several shots off a turn.

Against Dash specifically, positioning will actually matter. He cannot get close to you for risk of losing his shot and worse, his actions. It's really difficult to exploit with stuff like B-wings, but Ties have a surprisingly good time of it.

I had a very fun, close game against superdash and fringer friend. I lost not because of turrets or dice but because I screwed over poor backstabber pretty early and took too long to kill the fringer

Still, we operation scumbag, howlie and 3 ties ate into his hull before they all popped

Swarms are hard to fly

the outrider does have a range restriction, unless it's rolling the terribly inefficient mangler in which case it's still not getting +1 attack die at range 1

mangler outriders are like teeny tiny Han solos, they're just nibbling annoyances next to the idiocy of han and chiri in that they also can only be "outplayed" by dice, but they're incredibly easy to out roll (no guaranteed damage mitigation will do that to ya)

HLC Dash may be a fast bastard, but reliance on PTL (holy ****, honest to god block-able actions that matter ) and the range 1 bubble give you almost infinitely more counterplay options compared to "oh, I'm blocked? Guess I get to do everything anyway apart from evade/boost" and "oh, you can shoot me? I'm not on an asteroid, so I get to shoot you first"

Imo, I'd agree that all secondary weapon turrets are very acceptable because they have actual limitations (mangler outrider outside, but at least it sucks)

HLC Dash actually scares me more than Han. The only ship that made it easy to exploit the range 1 donut was the Phantom. I thought running Vader with engine upgrade would also be simple, but it really isn't. That large ship barrel roll + boost (assuming EU) covers an incredible distance, but I wouldn't be too bothered by if asteroids were actually an issue! A good Dash player can easily cut off avenues of approach using asteroids. I had no issues with HLC Dash until I realized how hard it was to actually exploit the range 1 donut relative to the difficulty of flying Dash.

The most viable option is to block and ability to do so consistently will depend on your list.

That's pretty much exactly the problem I had in my Top 8 match. If I tried to chase, he could keep in range of just a single ship fairly easily(he was to be fair pretty **** good at judging distances), if I slowed down...he could still do the same thing. If I got one of my stress causing ships in range to shoot at all, he'd simply not PTL. I'm sure there's things I could have done differently, but I feel the same way in regards to the asteroids. If Dash's ability was different(don't lose Perform Action but still roll damage dice, or vice versa) maybe it'd be a different story, but being able to ignore them entirely while moving makes trying to effectively follow him rough, and if you're already not fast enough to catch him it gets tricky trying to block.

If you're chasing turrets without auto thrusters then you're playing into his strengths. When your're behind them and moving first you're letting them control the engagement. Oh you're range 1 let boost or barrel roll. Oh you have tactician let me just boost to range 3... You need to break off and force him to come back towards you so you can potentially cut him off. Never ever chase turrets.

Earlier this year at a SC played a guy who brought 5 a wings with prockets. He set up in the left corner and I deployed right across from him. I could see his eyes getting bigger at the thought of me jousting him and him getting to roll 25 dice at my Yt's. I went 1 forward the first round and he of course screamed forward with a 5 and boost. Next turn he did his 5 and focused and I did 1 turns with boosts and right then and there I had just won the game. He would never get his prockets off at that point and my ships were faster and he could never block me. I stayed at range 2 and 3 all day and only let 1 ship ever catch me in arc. poor guy never realized that he should have broke off and tried again...

This is interesting, because that's pretty much the opposite of what I try to accomplish when I run HLC Defenders (too often for my own good). I find that if I can tail a fatty, I can get multiple shots over a couple turns and really tear them apart because turrets aren't super-efficient when both sides get to shoot, whereas if my Defenders go head to head, it's easier for the turret to blow by me and avoid a shot. This probably has more to do with the range benefits of cannons in general, and the small footprint of Defenders specifically. The A-wings in the example absolutely do not want to be chasing.

• Top 8: Corran + PTL + Advanced Sensors + R2D2 + Engine Upgrade; Gold + Ion Cannon Turret + BTL-A4 + R3-A2; Gold + Ion Cannon Turret + BTL-A4 + Bomb loadout + Proximity Mine

Hell yes. Y-Wings are coming back, friends.

@bio Hlc packing defenders would definitely be an exception where you would want to chase. Most ships definitely don't want to be doing the chasing. Lol I'm kinda glad HLC defenders aren't too common because they're a ridiculously durable ship.

• Top 8: Corran + PTL + Advanced Sensors + R2D2 + Engine Upgrade; Gold + Ion Cannon Turret + BTL-A4 + R3-A2; Gold + Ion Cannon Turret + BTL-A4 + Bomb loadout + Proximity Mine

Hell yes. Y-Wings are coming back, friends.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/176168-tulsa-regional-eyy-top-8/

Congraulations!

Personally, I'm thinking about running this at my state's Regionals on June 7th:

Any particular reason for the Grey over a gold? Generally things with ions want to be lower ps so the target doesn't have tokens left.

You make a good point. I hadn't really considered that, to be honest. I'll drop it to a Gold. I'm very tempted to go with TasteTheRainbow's list maybe with a couple of alterations.

Turrets are fine. AT is a great counter. And of course the phantom nerf was needed. It made playing lo ps ships and winning consistently with a list that sported no direct counter impossible if the phantom player knew what he was doing. Turrets are not like that at all. also, how would you "fix" turrets? what does that even mean? The meta is open now. Yes, sadly chirps and fel are very strong right now, but some things will always be strong. correcting a meta is not only about stuff being OP it is also very much about stuff being NPE, and chirps/fel doesn't fell anyway near as NPE as whisper did.

Dash + LW + Recon + outrider + HLC

Corran + VI + R2D2 + FCS + Engine

Won over

4 Tala

4 Bandit

At the 401 games Regional, Toronto, Ontario

53 players. Top 8 was all untimed rounds.

Top 8 and Top 4 going untimed added some length to the day for sure. That final table was easily the longest game of X-Wing I've ever had to play.

Ours was an 2.5hr epic back and forth struggle for regional supremacy. My Zeds refused yield the starfield until the last laser bolt sent them to oblivion. What a day to be sure, so close yet so far again. Again my Headhunters proved their mettle and you sir are both a worthy opponent and champion.

Cheers!

Indeed. I always appreciate the Commonwealth pronunciation of "Zed" when you come north of the border to throw it down with us here. You were a master bloodhound with flying those ships, never giving me an inch to breathe. I think for everyone watching, they were hoping that be 1am, one of us would be so cooked, we'd screw up large and have it end so we could all go home.

Unfortunately, a nearby McCafe and the on-site energy drink supply kept the focus going right up until that 2am finish. Going the distance on a day that long and playing as expertly as you did is an accomplishment not many can pull off. Considering how gross the air in the room was during the Swiss, you kept it professional and somehow we still managed to have some laughs during that marathon final. I don't know if anyone on the stream found it as entertaining...

Does it count as collusion if I was silently praying to an eldritch god to have your greens come up blank?

You flatter me sir. I do declare we both deserve to be decorated with the Royal Order of the Swamp Ass after reaching the final table. As far as colluding, well maybe, as the intended effect afflicted my Red dice instead.

Dash + LW + Recon + outrider + HLC

Corran + VI + R2D2 + FCS + Engine

Won over

4 Tala

4 Bandit

At the 401 games Regional, Toronto, Ontario

53 players. Top 8 was all untimed rounds.

Some additional anecdotes and impressions about Toronto:

- There were 4B lists everywhere

Which what I suspected would B the case, the meta call was the Zed swarm for me. I faced four quad B lists three of them with a Zed, the other was another panic variant with Flechette Cannon.

IMO the 401 event was well orchestrated and I agree that we could have easily exceed 64. Even with a field of 53 it was very cozy and quite moist.

About the St. Pete Regional:

Carlos Rodriguez (spelling?) won with:

Han Solo

Predator

Engine Upgrade

3PO

Gunner

Falcon Title

3 Bandit Squadron Pilots

Travis Cooper came in second with:

Dash Rendar

Push The Limit

Engine Upgrade

Kyle Katarn

Outrider

Heady Laser Cannon

Corran Horn

Veteran Instincts

R2 D2

Fire control system

We are currently editing the footage and doing commentary. Should be up on the Less Than Geek YouTube channel by Wednesday at the latest. (Likely tomorrow)

Great, if you're the TO or have his info, here's the quick instructions for getting the data into List Juggler. (I'll update the first page soon)

Short summary, you can pass this along to him:

In Cryodex, go to Export --> Generate List Juggler Data

This will create a *.json file in the same directory as the Cryodex.jar file.

go to:

www.starwarsclubhouse.com

Create a new tournament, filling in all the fields, and on upload file, point to where the *.json file is located.

Then the lists can all get entered.

Can you install Cryodex on Windows?

Yes, Cryodex runs on JAVA, so you need JAVA installed first.

Dash + LW + Recon + outrider + HLC

Corran + VI + R2D2 + FCS + Engine

Won over

4 Tala

4 Bandit

At the 401 games Regional, Toronto, Ontario

53 players. Top 8 was all untimed rounds.

Some additional anecdotes and impressions about Toronto:

- There were 4B lists everywhere

Which what I suspected would B the case, the meta call was the Zed swarm for me. I faced four quad B lists three of them with a Zed, the other was another panic variant with Flechette Cannon.

IMO the 401 event was well orchestrated and I agree that we could have easily exceed 64. Even with a field of 53 it was very cozy and quite moist.

Moist?

We have full results in from the Toronto tournament!

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

May 9, 2015
401 Games
Attendance: 53

Recorded matches with commentary: http://www.twitch.tv/401games/profile/past_broadcasts

List Juggler: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=421

• Winner: Dash Rendar + Lone Wolf + Heavy Laser Cannon + Recon Specialist + Outrider; Corran Horn + R2-D2 + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade
• 2nd place: 4x Tala Squadron Pilot; 4x Bandit Squadron Pilot
• Top 4: Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Seismic Charges + Gunner + Darth Vader + Rebel Captive + Engine Upgrade + Veteran Instincts; Soontir Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Push the Limit + Targeting Computer + Autothrusters
• Top 4: Etahn A'Baht + R2 Astromech + Advanced Sensors + Push the Limit; Tarn Mison + R7 Astromech; 3x Bandit Squadron Pilot
• Top 8: Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive + Gunner + Darth Vader; Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device
• Top 8: Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Mercenary Copilot + Rebel Captive + Gunner + Expose; Echo + Recon Specialist + Fire-Control System + Advanced Cloaking Device + Veteran Instincts
• Top 8: Boba Fett + Veteran Instincts + Inertial Dampeners + Engine Upgrade; Kath Scarlet + Push the Limit + Heavy Laser Cannon + Engine Upgrade + K4 Security Droid
• Top 8: Corran Horn + R2-D2 + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts; Airen Cracken + Cluster Missiles + Veteran Instincts; 2x Bandit Squadron Pilot + Homing Missiles

That Etahn list is pretty surprising. He broke the cardinal named E rule and took an R2!

That Etahn list is pretty surprising. He broke the cardinal named E rule and took an R2!

isn't r2-d2 also an r2 ?

I guess he needed the 3 points for Tarn. Best I could fit when I ran r2-d2 super Eathn was Cracken, who's hilarious but kinda made out of glass and spittle

That Z-95 swarm fascinates me. I wonder why he chose them over an old-fashioned TIE swarm.I would have found it hard to resist the barrel rolls and greater blocking potential.

That Etahn list is pretty surprising. He broke the cardinal named E rule and took an R2!

And coupled it with Advanced Sensors and PtL. Having the ability to perform two actions and end up with no stress on 9 separate maneuvers should not be underestimated.

That Z-95 swarm fascinates me. I wonder why he chose them over an old-fashioned TIE swarm.I would have found it hard to resist the barrel rolls and greater blocking potential.

Itzehoe, Germany

Nice, thanks!

And we finally have another winning list that does not include a turret! Although with Corran at 46 points, I think he still counts as a "Fat Ship" with R2-D2.

If the base ain't fat, no need to look back

Small base invalidates fatness

Plus 46 is bargain bin territory. That's an anemic han/cheri

Nice, thanks!

And we finally have another winning list that does not include a turret! Although with Corran at 46 points, I think he still counts as a "Fat Ship" with R2-D2.

Actually, only a single turret in the entire Top 8. I predict we're going to be seeing more swarmy lists popping up over the next few weeks...

Nice, thanks!

And we finally have another winning list that does not include a turret! Although with Corran at 46 points, I think he still counts as a "Fat Ship" with R2-D2.

Actually, only a single turret in the entire Top 8. I predict we're going to be seeing more swarmy lists popping up over the next few weeks...

So, interestingly, with the addition of this tournament, the overall Turret usage for Top has has actually fallen below 50% for the first time, at 45% (51/113).

Ha ha, true, he is not as "fat" as a 64 point monster, but at nearly 50 points and with R2-D2 to regenerate, I still think he counts. At least that's how I will be tracking any Expensive Horns with R2-D2.