The easiest "fix" for damage cards would be:

If you receive a face-up damage card, which does nothing to you, flip the card face-down and draw another face-down damage card.

So basically, if you can't remove a secondary weapon, you get a second hit. If you get a second pilot skill zero crit, again another damage.

The easiest "fix" for damage cards would be:

If you receive a face-up damage card, which does nothing to you, flip the card face-down and draw another face-down damage card.

So basically, if you can't remove a secondary weapon, you get a second hit. If you get a second pilot skill zero crit, again another damage.

Sure, lets make fat-ships with all the upgrades more survivable & hurt the non-unique or non-upgraded ships. That is exactly what is needed, something that helps Fat ships! I understand the original post, but not this idea. I am not sure most players are looking for the damage deck to be more devastating.

How do you differentiate between crew, though? Anything that would kill a crew member could likewise kill the pilot, so you might as well have a crit that just removes the ship from play.

Nope, in Empire Luke's gunner, Hobby, takes a crit and dies while Luke is alive and the machine is still flying. His console blew up in his face.

That's not an answer to the question I asked, nor really all that relevant. I didn't say it should kill all crew, only that something fatal for one crew member would be fatal for others as well. There's really no distinction between pilot and copilot when it comes to mortality, so how do you determine who dies and who doesn't?

"how do you determine who dies and who doesn't"

-> How you decide what crit you get? -> You draw a card! (is this too far away from "real life circumstances" too?)

It´s interesting how one person, that´s you, can ruin a whole thread with narrow-minding points of view, and that with such an effort and continousity (It´s not the first time). Why? Everybody here brings arguments against your objections and you are still continuing. If I would start to think like you, 50% of the game has to be changed contrary to gameplay and fun. Even in the movies you always see injuries happening to just one of the crew members, yes thats not only possible, that´s the state of the art when you look at other, real examples. You are like the typical "but"-persons. Think about your own mods, make your own thread, play your mimimi there and stop boring me please.

How do you differentiate between crew, though? Anything that would kill a crew member could likewise kill the pilot, so you might as well have a crit that just removes the ship from play.

Nope, in Empire Luke's gunner, Hobby, takes a crit and dies while Luke is alive and the machine is still flying. His console blew up in his face.

That's not an answer to the question I asked, nor really all that relevant. I didn't say it should kill all crew, only that something fatal for one crew member would be fatal for others as well. There's really no distinction between pilot and copilot when it comes to mortality, so how do you determine who dies and who doesn't?

Your justificafion seems to be physics but physics and star wars are barely on speaking terms so that is nonsense.

We know it is crew because pilots have a while class of crit cards called pilot.

We know which crew eats it exactly the same way we know what missile a tie bomber losses or which cannon IG88 will have to live without.

Why are you objecting to this idea? Your position seems nonsensical.

So even though I have you a specific example, from the best movie, of a crit that killed a crew and left the speeder and pilot alive and working you want the pilot to be eligable for death if it is possible to kill crew? Am I reading that right?

Your justificafion seems to be physics but physics and star wars are barely on speaking terms so that is nonsense.

We know it is crew because pilots have a while class of crit cards called pilot.

We know which crew eats it exactly the same way we know what missile a tie bomber losses or which cannon IG88 will have to live without.

Why are you objecting to this idea? Your position seems nonsensical.

I'm not objecting to anything. People are, for the umpteenth time, trying to fix an element of the game that isn't broken. All I'm looking for is justification for why something should be changed, and perhaps an accurate means of affecting that change. Is there a fluff element for why a crew upgrade should be an eligible target for a crit and not the pilot? If so, what's the justification for removing it outright when the very same thing could apply to the pilot instead? You gave me an example from the movie, but haven't acknowledged that Luke could easily have been the one who died.

"how do you determine who dies and who doesn't"

-> How you decide what crit you get? -> You draw a card! (is this too far away from "real life circumstances" too?)

It´s interesting how one person, that´s you, can ruin a whole thread with narrow-minding points of view, and that with such an effort and continousity (It´s not the first time). Why? Everybody here brings arguments against your objections and you are still continuing. If I would start to think like you, 50% of the game has to be changed contrary to gameplay and fun. Even in the movies you always see injuries happening to just one of the crew members, yes thats not only possible, that´s the state of the art when you look at other, real examples. You are like the typical "but"-persons. Think about your own mods, make your own thread, play your mimimi there and stop boring me please.

Either my keen sense of irony is acting up again, or I misunderstood you when you asked for "revilements." I mean, I realize that what I gave you instead of scornful or abusive language was critical insight through rhetorical questions, so you have me there. I guess I'll leave it up to the mods to decide if your personal attack on my character merits further attention. Have a nice day.

The pilot can be hit by crits--blinded pilot, injured pilot, stunned pilot.

And it seems fair to you that, by comparison, a crew member is flat out removed while a pilot is only injured or disoriented in some manner?

And it seems fair to you that, by comparison, a crew member is flat out removed while a pilot is only injured or disoriented in some manner?

Absolutely, yes.

Why are you objecting to this idea? Your position seems nonsensical.

I'm not objecting to anything. People are, for the umpteenth time, trying to fix an element of the game that isn't broken. All I'm looking for is justification for why something should be changed, and perhaps an accurate means of affecting that change. Is there a fluff element for why a crew upgrade should be an eligible target for a crit and not the pilot? If so, what's the justification for removing it outright when the very same thing could apply to the pilot instead? You gave me an example from the movie, but haven't acknowledged that Luke could easily have been the one who died.

Ah ok, I think I get where you are coming from. First off, I'll agree with you, the damage deck is not broken. I took this to be a house rule and it sounded fun to me. As to the why of it, we both know that the shot that killed Dak had no more chance of killing Luke than the crash, snow monster, Darth Vader or swamp viruses on Dagobah had. Luke has main character magic. In terms of the game, a pilot can only be killed with the death of their ship, except Bosk I guess. Anyway crew are upgrades, not pilots. A blast that does enough damage to the ship to wreck a weapon or subsystem certainly has enough power to kill a person, based on the hit to Dak.

Game mechanics wise the crit kills a secondary weapon. Crew function similarly, more like a cannon than a missile or bomb but HLC costs more than anything but Luke so points wise it seems reasonable. If having a crit that often duds bothers someone I think this is a reasonable house rule.

Absolutely, yes.

How is that? I get that, from a story perspective, the pilots tend to be more important. Somebody earlier suggested "plot shields," and while that may work as an excuse for a game with some kind of narrative, X-Wing is just about dog fighting. There is no plot to speak of, so again, what makes the crew members less important as individuals than the pilots?

Game mechanics wise the crit kills a secondary weapon. Crew function similarly, more like a cannon than a missile or bomb but HLC costs more than anything but Luke so points wise it seems reasonable. If having a crit that often duds bothers someone I think this is a reasonable house rule.

I'm glad that we could resolve this civilly. I'm not here to tell people how to play or not play, so by all means, you should all feel free to use whatever house rules you see fit.

"how do you determine who dies and who doesn't"

-> How you decide what crit you get? -> You draw a card! (is this too far away from "real life circumstances" too?)

It´s interesting how one person, that´s you, can ruin a whole thread with narrow-minding points of view, and that with such an effort and continousity (It´s not the first time). Why? Everybody here brings arguments against your objections and you are still continuing. If I would start to think like you, 50% of the game has to be changed contrary to gameplay and fun. Even in the movies you always see injuries happening to just one of the crew members, yes thats not only possible, that´s the state of the art when you look at other, real examples. You are like the typical "but"-persons. Think about your own mods, make your own thread, play your mimimi there and stop boring me please.

Either my keen sense of irony is acting up again, or I misunderstood you when you asked for "revilements." I mean, I realize that what I gave you instead of scornful or abusive language was critical insight through rhetorical questions, so you have me there. I guess I'll leave it up to the mods to decide if your personal attack on my character merits further attention. Have a nice day.

There is no irony at all. Do not turn into that, not every behaviour can be rescued/explained by "it´s irony that you don´t understand" statements. Maybe mods should take the time and read through the whole thread to see the context and the development of the dialogues. And running to parents is a strange grown up reaction. But ok, I should/will choose my word more diplomatically not to make you shocked in some way.

To topic: It could be changed to "Discard 2nd-ary weapon. If your ship does not have any, choose an astromech, crew or mod card ...etc"

With this you would not attenuate the classic damage card, but would instead open it for more circumstances. So the YT2400 would definetively have to discard the HLC turret first (if no missiles are on board)

And it seems fair to you that, by comparison, a crew member is flat out removed while a pilot is only injured or disoriented in some manner?

Ok, if you begin with that, then please explain me how for example IG88 can be blinded in some way? He is a robot! And if blinded, does he gets blinded half as hard, because he is a robot? Why he can be stunned with same probability like wedge or luke? Same system for stress for robots? Or "Adrenaline rush" for robots? Is this a sub-routine? Windows update?

How all turn maneuvers are now red? How this can be happen that the steering devices on both sides always gets destroyed at once and simultaneously? Han gets a tool kit onto his head, he survived. Next time it could smash his head, or he could get an electric discharge. Or a splinter of a canopy could find his way into his badass head. How that? -> "Minor explosion" or "Minor hull breach" plus bonus splinter. I could continue endlessly, but it´s boring, you don´t think?

So calm down, test out some new squads. Try the K-wing, it is awesome

There is no irony at all.

You may want to invest in a dictionary, but failing that, I'd be more than happy to explain it to you. Just send me a private message.

Absolutely, yes.

How is that? I get that, from a story perspective, the pilots tend to be more important. Somebody earlier suggested "plot shields," and while that may work as an excuse for a game with some kind of narrative, X-Wing is just about dog fighting. There is no plot to speak of, so again, what makes the crew members less important as individuals than the pilots?

Adding an interesting mechanic to the game.

That seems to me a rationale with a rather broad range of consequences.

Adding an interesting mechanic to the game.

That seems to me a rationale with a rather broad range of consequences.

While I do agree that Crew (specifically) should be targeted for damage effects, I currently don't see a way for this to be implemented easily or effectively with the amount of Crit damages that are currently being introduced.

Mangler Cannon has become a staple along with the new X1 title. I'm sure there are more crits to come. Taking a crew title is what gives some ships a great value on the field (think doomshuttle). IF something were to affect crew I would like it to fit under the PILOT crits so it could be removed with determination.

Also Moff jer already does this in a way. Allowing you to sacrifice crew members instead of taking whatever crit is dealt to him. Early on Choosing to remove gunner or Moff at 11 hull left can be quite a choice if you know more criticals are on the way(decimator).

While it is unfortunate when you get a damaged cockpit on a ps1 ship, I don't think adding a damage when you cannot take away set effect would be good, it would increase the direct hit ratio of many, many fragile ships that don't take the required upgrades. You shouldn't punish a ship for not having upgrades via damage, they already suffer via no extra damage,movement, ect...

While it is unfortunate when you get a damaged cockpit on a ps1 ship, I don't think adding a damage when you cannot take away set effect would be good, it would increase the direct hit ratio of many, many fragile ships that don't take the required upgrades. You shouldn't punish a ship for not having upgrades via damage, they already suffer via no extra damage,movement, ect...

Yes you are right, but I am sure FFG has taken that into consideration when making the stats and point cost for a ship. But I am not quite sure that I understood you correctly

While it is unfortunate when you get a damaged cockpit on a ps1 ship, I don't think adding a damage when you cannot take away set effect would be good, it would increase the direct hit ratio of many, many fragile ships that don't take the required upgrades. You shouldn't punish a ship for not having upgrades via damage, they already suffer via no extra damage,movement, ect...

Yes you are right, but I am sure FFG has taken that into consideration when making the stats and point cost for a ship. But I am not quite sure that I understood you correctly

There were mentions of having a ship draw an extra card if it can't fulfil whatever the damag effect is (IE Munitions Failure)

While it is unfortunate when you get a damaged cockpit on a ps1 ship, I don't think adding a damage when you cannot take away set effect would be good, it would increase the direct hit ratio of many, many fragile ships that don't take the required upgrades. You shouldn't punish a ship for not having upgrades via damage, they already suffer via no extra damage,movement, ect...

Yes you are right, but I am sure FFG has taken that into consideration when making the stats and point cost for a ship. But I am not quite sure that I understood you correctly

There were mentions of having a ship draw an extra card if it can't fulfil whatever the damag effect is (IE Munitions Failure)

But it sucks that some upgrades are immune to crits. Everything should be at risk.