You guys are mistaken about the concentrate fire command. It is not spent when others are (early on in the turn). It is handled as needed, still being restricted to using the dial and token (if desired) on a single attack.
See page 12, concentrate fire. and page 4 of the rules reference guide.
All the other timing info seems right to me, though.
You guys are mistaken about the concentrate fire command. It is not spent when others are (early on in the turn). It is handled as needed, still being restricted to using the dial and token (if desired) on a single attack.
See page 12, concentrate fire. and page 4 of the rules reference guide.
All the other timing info seems right to me, though.
I'm not sure you're saying something different from what we're saying. Of course the concentrate fire command happens during the attack, and not right after the turning of the dial, such as is the case with the squadron and repair commands.
Could you please clarify where you think we've gone astray?
Yeah I don't know what you are talking about.
I have a hard time figuring out what you guys are arguing about...
I believe you folks have the timing of Concentrate Fire off by a bit, too. My line of thinking:
COMMANDS (Rules Reference, page 3- 4)
A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time . The effect of the command is based on which component was spent:
...
Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack.
ATTACK (Rules Reference, page 2)
To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, resolve the following steps:
1. Declare Target:
2. Roll Attack Dice:
3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the Concentrate Fire command.
Spend Accuracy Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its Accuracy icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.
4. Spend Defense Tokens:5. Resolve Damage:6. Declare Additional Squadron Target:
The appropriate time (above emphasis added by me) to declare the use of a Concentrate Fire command dial or token is during the "Resolve Attack Effects" phase of the Attack sequence. This phase comes after rolling the dice, and thus gives the attacker a slight advantage in that they can see the dice results before deciding to use the dial/token. This advance knowledge is not without precedent, and seems in keeping with the spirit of the game. There are a number of effects that allow you to spend a die — after you see what you rolled — in order to gain an advantage. No one expects to declare before rolling dice, "If I get at least one blue critical I'm going to use Upgrade Alpha to trigger this card effect."
It should be noted though, that if you've got a Concentrate Fire command dial sitting on the table and you don't use it, you lose it. Command dials have to be turned into tokens immediately upon being revealed, so a Concentrate Fire command dial either needs to be used that turn or it's pretty much wasted.
You guys are mistaken about the concentrate fire command. It is not spent when others are (early on in the turn). It is handled as needed, still being restricted to using the dial and token (if desired) on a single attack.
See page 12, concentrate fire. and page 4 of the rules reference guide.
All the other timing info seems right to me, though.
I'm not sure you're saying something different from what we're saying. Of course the concentrate fire command happens during the attack, and not right after the turning of the dial, such as is the case with the squadron and repair commands.
Could you please clarify where you think we've gone astray?
When you are talking about needeing errata to not force a reroll when you like the results. I am saying RAW doesn't require you to spend the reroll token until after the roll anyway. So, you would simply hot spend a token if you didn't want to reroll.
Your "exclusion of use a dial then atoken later on" is incorrect as it relates to cincentrate fire. In that case you roll, decide whether or not to use a dial to roll an extra die (after seeing your results). Then, you may choose whether or not to spend a con. Fire token to reroll a die.
Sorry, the quote feature isn't great on my device. I am referring to posts you made Apr 30 at 1155am and 925pm CST/GMT-5
You guys are mistaken about the concentrate fire command. It is not spent when others are (early on in the turn). It is handled as needed, still being restricted to using the dial and token (if desired) on a single attack.
See page 12, concentrate fire. and page 4 of the rules reference guide.
All the other timing info seems right to me, though.
I'm not sure you're saying something different from what we're saying. Of course the concentrate fire command happens during the attack, and not right after the turning of the dial, such as is the case with the squadron and repair commands.
Could you please clarify where you think we've gone astray?
When you are talking about needeing errata to not force a reroll when you like the results. I am saying RAW doesn't require you to spend the reroll token until after the roll anyway. So, you would simply hot spend a token if you didn't want to reroll.
Your "exclusion of use a dial then atoken later on" is incorrect as it relates to cincentrate fire. In that case you roll, decide whether or not to use a dial to roll an extra die (after seeing your results). Then, you may choose whether or not to spend a con. Fire token to reroll a die.
Sorry, the quote feature isn't great on my device. I am referring to posts you made Apr 30 at 1155am and 925pm CST/GMT-5
The procedure also applies to concentrate fire. The only difference that the appropriate time window is not "after revealing the command dial" but the "resolve attack effects" step of an attack. So in this case:
The timing looks like this:
1. You roll your original attack pool and look at the result
2. "Appropriate time window" comes up (Resolve Attack Effects)
3. You decide you want to resolve a command (Concentrate Fire) and what you want to spend to resolve it (Dial, Token or both)
4. You resolve the effect of the command, as defined by what you spent to resolve it. (Extra Die, Reroll or both in any order)
5. The resolution of the command ends.
If you choose to only spend a Dial in step 3, then rolling the extra die and seeing the result already resolves the effect of the command.
Afterwards spending a concentrate fire token initiates a new resolution of another concentrate fire command, which is not allowed.
So, to clarify: You do get to see the result of your first attack roll before deciding what to spend to resolve a concentrate fire command. You do NOT get to see what your extra die has rolled before deciding whether you also want to spend or save the concentrate fire token.
I believe you folks have the timing of Concentrate Fire off by a bit, too. My line of thinking:
COMMANDS (Rules Reference, page 3- 4)[/size]
A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time . The effect of the command is based on which component was spent: [/size]
...
Concentrate Fire: [/size] Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack. [/size]
ATTACK (Rules Reference, page 2)[/size]
To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, resolve the following steps: [/size]
1. Declare Target:[/size]
2. Roll Attack Dice:[/size]
3. Resolve Attack Effects: [/size] The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:[/size]
Modify Dice: [/size] The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the [/size] Concentrate Fire [/size] command.[/size]
Spend Accuracy [/size] Icons: [/size] The attacker can spend one or more of its [/size] Accuracy [/size] icons to choose the same [/size] number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.
4. Spend Defense Tokens:[/size]
5. [/size] Resolve Damage:[/size]
6. [/size] Declare Additional Squadron Target:[/size]
The appropriate time (above emphasis added by me) to declare the use of a Concentrate Fire command dial or token is during the "Resolve Attack Effects" phase of the Attack sequence. This phase comes after rolling the dice, and thus gives the attacker a slight advantage in that they can see the dice results before deciding to use the dial/token. This advance knowledge is not without precedent, and seems in keeping with the spirit of the game. There are a number of effects that allow you to spend a die — after you see what you rolled — in order to gain an advantage. No one expects to declare before rolling dice, "If I get at least one blue critical I'm going to use Upgrade Alpha to trigger this card effect."
It should be noted though, that if you've got a Concentrate Fire command dial sitting on the table and you don't use it, you lose it. Command dials have to be turned into tokens immediately upon being revealed, so a Concentrate Fire command dial either needs to be used that turn or it's pretty much wasted.
No one has said that you won't get to see the initial attack roll before deciding to use a Concentrate Fire token and/or dial.
What people have been saying is that you will not get to see the result of the Concentrate Fire dial before deciding to spend a Concentrate Fire token.
That is the information you won't have available to you.