This came up today and I just wanted to make sure we got the timing on this correct.

When you reveal your command Dial you can chose to assign a token to your ship, also when you reveal your command dial is when you can use your squadron or engineering tokens you may already have. As these both appear to happen at the same time, immediately after you reveal your dial, I figured you could chose which order to do them in, however I wasn't sure that was correct or not.

To give you an example of what happened. A Neb B Frigate had a speed and engineering token on when it revealed it's command dial which was a squadron command. Can you at this point chose to spend the engineering token to repair and then assign the squadron token? Or would you have to assign the token first, at which point you've have 3 tokens and have to discard one due to only having Command Value of 2 before you got chance to use one?

well if your ship has 2 commands then it can have up to 2 tokens per the rules. if you spent the engineering token and then had a squadron command dial and speed(maneuver) token left, that leaves 1 slot open for a token, so you could turn the squadron command dial into a token to use later. BUT you can't spend more than 2 commands (dials or tokens) each turn for the ship anyway. least this is my interpretation of the rules.

When you reveal your command Dial you can chose to assign a token to your ship, also when you reveal your command dial is when you can use your squadron or engineering tokens you may already have. As these both appear to happen at the same time, immediately after you reveal your dial, I figured you could chose which order to do them in, however I wasn't sure that was correct or not.

To give you an example of what happened. A Neb B Frigate had a speed and engineering token on when it revealed it's command dial which was a squadron command. Can you at this point chose to spend the engineering token to repair and then assign the squadron token? Or would you have to assign the token first, at which point you've have 3 tokens and have to discard one due to only having Command Value of 2 before you got chance to use one?

BUT you can't spend more than 2 commands (dials or tokens) each turn for the ship anyway. least this is my interpretation of the rules.

You're allowed to do as many of the four commands as you want during an activation (if you have dials/tokens available), but you can only do each command once. You can't use a Concentrate Fire dial on your first attack, then use a Concentrate Fire token on your second, nor can you spend an Engineering token, use Wulff Yularen to gain a new one, then spend that new one.

You're allowed to do as many of the four commands as you want during an activation (if you have dials/tokens available), but you can only do each command once. You can't use a Concentrate Fire dial on your first attack, then use a Concentrate Fire token on your second, nor can you spend an Engineering token, use Wulff Yularen to gain a new one, then spend that new one.

Incorrect, page 4 of Rules Reference:

"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a (navigate) command dial and a (navigate) command token."

There are no imposed limits on how many dials/tokens you can spend a turn, so if a VSD has 3 "banked" tokens you could chose to spend all of those tokens and the dial, even if the dial has a command that matched your tokens.

I use this in my current VSD and TIEs 180 point build, bank a (Squadron) and when it is beneficial spend the token and dial to command 5 TIEs to move and attack (3 VSD base, 1 Expanded Hanger, 1 squad token) basically as effective as a 5 blue dice attack on a ship or kill enemy squadrons.

You're allowed to do as many of the four commands as you want during an activation (if you have dials/tokens available), but you can only do each command once. You can't use a Concentrate Fire dial on your first attack, then use a Concentrate Fire token on your second, nor can you spend an Engineering token, use Wulff Yularen to gain a new one, then spend that new one.

Incorrect, page 4 of Rules Reference:

"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a (navigate) command dial and a (navigate) command token."

You can combine them to create magnified one use of a command, but you are indeed only allowed to do each command once. The combination of dial + token for a command counts as a single use of the command.

From the Rules Reference just above the part you quoted:

When you reveal your command Dial you can chose to assign a token to your ship, also when you reveal your command dial is when you can use your squadron or engineering tokens you may already have. As these both appear to happen at the same time, immediately after you reveal your dial, I figured you could chose which order to do them in, however I wasn't sure that was correct or not.

Turning a dial into a token is described in the rules as something you do "immediately" after revealing the dial, while the engineering and squadron commands are done "after" revealing the dial. I read that as meaning if you want to turn a dial into a token that has to be the very first thing you do after the reveal, and you cannot quickly spend another token first to free up a spot.

To give you an example of what happened. A Neb B Frigate had a speed and engineering token on when it revealed it's command dial which was a squadron command. Can you at this point chose to spend the engineering token to repair and then assign the squadron token? Or would you have to assign the token first, at which point you've have 3 tokens and have to discard one due to only having Command Value of 2 before you got chance to use one?

So in this situation, I believe you have to do the latter. You turn your dial into a token, choose something to discard, then consider doing a squadron or engineering command.

BUT you can't spend more than 2 commands (dials or tokens) each turn for the ship anyway. least this is my interpretation of the rules.

You're allowed to do as many of the four commands as you want during an activation (if you have dials/tokens available), but you can only do each command once. You can't use a Concentrate Fire dial on your first attack, then use a Concentrate Fire token on your second, nor can you spend an Engineering token, use Wulff Yularen to gain a new one, then spend that new one.

Never really looked that closely at it until now. I agree with everything you said based on what I read.

Key words:

when

while

before

after

as described on pg 5 under effects and timing. Gibbo, if there is ever a question about timing like that, I would suggest reviewing that section. Good stuff that tends to be overlooked, but answers a lot of questions.

Ok, so from the rules on effect use and timing:

"An 'after' effect occurs immediately after the specified event..."

So Squadron and Engineering tokens can only be resolved immediately after revealing the ship's command dial.

The bit on Command dials says "its owner reveals that ship's top command dial and places it next to the ship in the play area. It can be spent immediately to assign the corresponding token to that ship"

The Ship Activation starts with:

1. Reveal Command Dial: Revel the ship's top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.

So using the Neb B example above that had an engineering and navigate token already assigned, when its command dial is revealed and shown to be a squadron command the following two effects are triggered at the same time:

- Chose to resolve the effect of an engineering token

- Spend the command dial to assign a squadron token to the ship.

Since they both trigger at the same time you can chose the order, in the case it would be better to resolve the engineering token and then assign the squadron token.

Anyone disagree?

Ok, so from the rules on effect use and timing:

"An 'after' effect occurs immediately after the specified event..."

So Squadron and Engineering tokens can only be resolved immediately after revealing the ship's command dial.

The bit on Command dials says "its owner reveals that ship's top command dial and places it next to the ship in the play area. It can be spent immediately to assign the corresponding token to that ship"

The Ship Activation starts with:

1. Reveal Command Dial: Revel the ship's top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.

So using the Neb B example above that had an engineering and navigate token already assigned, when its command dial is revealed and shown to be a squadron command the following two effects are triggered at the same time:

- Chose to resolve the effect of an engineering token

- Spend the command dial to assign a squadron token to the ship.

Since they both trigger at the same time you can chose the order, in the case it would be better to resolve the engineering token and then assign the squadron token.

Anyone disagree?

Command dials are converted into tokens when a ship's command dial is revealed.

Command Tokens (pg 3) - "When a ship’s command dial is revealed, that dial can be spent to assign the corresponding command token to that ship."

Squadron tokens are spent after a ship's command dial is revealed.

Commands (pg 3) - "Squadron: Resolve after revealing the ship’s command dial."

Effect Use and Timing (pg 5) - "A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event."

Effect Use and Timing (pg 5) - An "after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Per my reading of the effect time, "when" effects occur before "after" effects for a given effect, so you would gain the command dial token before you had the opportunity to spend an existing squadron token.

Aha, even though I'd read that timing section I completely missed that was one regarding 'when'.

That pretty much clears anything up, you have to assign the token first before you get chance to use one. Thanks for everyone's input.

Aha, even though I'd read that timing section I completely missed that was one regarding 'when'.

That pretty much clears anything up, you have to assign the token first before you get chance to use one. Thanks for everyone's input.

When I first read the timing and command rules, it made me sad. My dreams of launching a broadside into a Rebel ship and then following it up with a squadron activation of bombers to finish it up were dashed. You gotta sent the bombers into harm's way first, then finish the ship with your ship.

Aha, even though I'd read that timing section I completely missed that was one regarding 'when'.

That pretty much clears anything up, you have to assign the token first before you get chance to use one. Thanks for everyone's input.

Yup, bingo.

You're allowed to do as many of the four commands as you want during an activation (if you have dials/tokens available), but you can only do each command once. You can't use a Concentrate Fire dial on your first attack, then use a Concentrate Fire token on your second, nor can you spend an Engineering token, use Wulff Yularen to gain a new one, then spend that new one.

Incorrect, page 4 of Rules Reference:"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a (navigate) command dial and a (navigate) command token."

You can combine them to create magnified one use of a command, but you are indeed only allowed to do each command once. The combination of dial + token for a command counts as a single use of the command.From the Rules Reference just above the part you quoted:

Forgive me I misunderstood the meaning of your example. The rule I stated is about combining the effect of the token with the dial for one greater command, which you weren't illustrating with your example. They could use both a Consentrate Fire dial and token to get an extra dice and a re-roll but it would have to be on the same attack, you were separating the attacks so your example is valid. Sorry if I tried to make things more confusing.

This question also came up in a game I played today.

It went as follows:

I revealed a Squadron command dial, while already having a squadron command token. So, I moved by three TIE squadrons and resolved their attacks on the traitors rebels.

I then though: *okay, let me follow that up with another TIE squadron, using my Squadron command token*

My opponent then told me that I should have declared my use of the token before I had moved my three other ships. I was unaware that I had to declare this, nor did I see any such stipulation in the rules.

So, rulemeisters, was my opponent correct? Did I forfeit my use of the squadron command token when I activated my three squadrons and resolved their attacks before moving my fourth squadron, based on the command token?

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Okay, thanks. Can you cite that for me?

Is it the statement that says:

"A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round,"

Rules Guide, pg. 4 (rh column, 2nd sq bullet)?

Because on pg 3 (under Squadron Commands) it reads:

◊◊ Dial: Activate a number of friendly squadrons up to

the ship’s squadron value that are at close–medium

range of the ship. Each squadron activated in this way

can attack and move in either order. The squadrons

are chosen and activated one at a time.

◊◊ Token: Activate one squadron as described above.

So, it says nothing about declaring or the timing of declarations, and it says squadrons are chosen and activated one at a time . It says that this happens after the reveal dial, but it doesn't say before what other action the decision to use a command token must be communicated. It just says that it must be resolved at the "appropriate time" (pg. 3 under Command) which would mean, before the ship's attack step.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Actually I'd question that. I think as long as you hadn't moved onto anything else then you are still resolving the squadron command and still able to add the token to combine the effect.

If you look at the focus fire command and token, using the same logic that you have to declare you are using them both together you would say this before rolling the extra dice. What if when you rolled the dice you didn't need to reroll any of them using the token, have you lost the token?

The way we've been playing is you roll the extra dice, then decide if you want to reroll any of them. If you decide you don't want to reroll then you don't spend the token. (Obviously you can't use the token on a future attack as that's then a second use of the same command)

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Okay, thanks. Can you cite that for me?

Is it the statement that says:

"A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round,"

Rules Guide, pg. 4 (rh column, 2nd sq bullet)?

Because on pg 3 (under Squadron Commands) it reads:

◊◊ Dial: Activate a number of friendly squadrons up to

the ship’s squadron value that are at close–medium

range of the ship. Each squadron activated in this way

can attack and move in either order. The squadrons

are chosen and activated one at a time.

◊◊ Token: Activate one squadron as described above.

So, it says nothing about declaring or the timing of declarations, and it says squadrons are chosen and activated one at a time . It says that this happens after the reveal dial, but it doesn't say before what other action the decision to use a command token must be communicated. It just says that it must be resolved at the "appropriate time" (pg. 3 under Command) which would mean, before the ship's attack step.

Reference Rules p3+4, "Commands"

"A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time."

"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command."

This implies that you spend something to initiate resolving a command that then has an effect. Once you are executing the effect the time window for spending the tokens to modify the effect of this one command has passed. Hence, if you want to spend both, you have to declare it first.

The timing looks like this:

1. "Appropriate time window" comes up (for Squadron commands this is "after revealing your command dial)

2. You decide you want to resolve a command (Squadron command) and what you want to spend to resolve it.

3. You resolve the effect of the command, as defined by what you spent to resolve it.

4. The resolution of the command ends.

Being allowed to first resolve the dial and then decide on whether you want to resolve the token allows you to make the decision about spending the token with more information than you have at the beginning of the resolution of the command. So it makes a difference. Examples are: If I manage to destroy the pesky X-Wing with the first activated ties, I may choose to save the token for a later round.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Actually I'd question that. I think as long as you hadn't moved onto anything else then you are still resolving the squadron command and still able to add the token to combine the effect.

If you look at the focus fire command and token, using the same logic that you have to declare you are using them both together you would say this before rolling the extra dice. What if when you rolled the dice you didn't need to reroll any of them using the token, have you lost the token?

The way we've been playing is you roll the extra dice, then decide if you want to reroll any of them. If you decide you don't want to reroll then you don't spend the token. (Obviously you can't use the token on a future attack as that's then a second use of the same command)

As to your Concentrate Fire example: It is likely even worse. The token effect has no "may" in its wording, so technically you are a) forced to declare spending both beforehand and then b) have to reroll even though you may not want to. Hence if you have a roll that is already made up completely with results you wouldn't want to reroll, you shouldn't spend the token with the dial.

I do expect this to be a point for errata though.

Reference Rules p3+4, "Commands"

"A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time."

"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command."

This implies that you spend something to initiate resolving a command that then has an effect. Once you are executing the effect the time window for spending the tokens to modify the effect of this one command has passed. Hence, if you want to spend both, you have to declare it first.

The timing looks like this:

1. "Appropriate time window" comes up (for Squadron commands this is "after revealing your command dial)

2. You decide you want to resolve a command (Squadron command) and what you want to spend to resolve it.

3. You resolve the effect of the command, as defined by what you spent to resolve it.

4. The resolution of the command ends.

Being allowed to first resolve the dial and then decide on whether you want to resolve the token allows you to make the decision about spending the token with more information than you have at the beginning of the resolution of the command. So it makes a difference. Examples are: If I manage to destroy the pesky X-Wing with the first activated ties, I may choose to save the token for a later round.

Many thanks!

Because players are not always that explicit when they play, this requirement for declaration is probably not going to be observed all that closely. It'll be good to know, though, just in case.

Reference Rules p3+4, "Commands"

"A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time."

"A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command."

This implies that you spend something to initiate resolving a command that then has an effect. Once you are executing the effect the time window for spending the tokens to modify the effect of this one command has passed. Hence, if you want to spend both, you have to declare it first.

The timing looks like this:

1. "Appropriate time window" comes up (for Squadron commands this is "after revealing your command dial)

2. You decide you want to resolve a command (Squadron command) and what you want to spend to resolve it.

3. You resolve the effect of the command, as defined by what you spent to resolve it.

4. The resolution of the command ends.

Being allowed to first resolve the dial and then decide on whether you want to resolve the token allows you to make the decision about spending the token with more information than you have at the beginning of the resolution of the command. So it makes a difference. Examples are: If I manage to destroy the pesky X-Wing with the first activated ties, I may choose to save the token for a later round.

Okay, it makes sense that way.

Many thanks!

Because players are not always that explicit when they play, this requirement for declaration is probably not going to be observed all that closely. It'll be good to know, though, just in case.

Very welcome.

During play it often is not that explicit, but it helps to think about it this explicitly when trying to figure out how something actually works when doubt creeps in. I am very impressed with the rulebook that nearly all such situations can be resolved by just going back to it and explicitly thinking it through.

They have come a long way since the days of Tide of Iron or even the launch of X-Wing.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Actually I'd question that. I think as long as you hadn't moved onto anything else then you are still resolving the squadron command and still able to add the token to combine the effect.

If you look at the focus fire command and token, using the same logic that you have to declare you are using them both together you would say this before rolling the extra dice. What if when you rolled the dice you didn't need to reroll any of them using the token, have you lost the token?

The way we've been playing is you roll the extra dice, then decide if you want to reroll any of them. If you decide you don't want to reroll then you don't spend the token. (Obviously you can't use the token on a future attack as that's then a second use of the same command)

You've been play contrary to the rules as written then.

The rules don't allow you to string bet the spending and resolution of your dial before deciding if you wish to add the token effect. You are not entitled to that extra information when making the choice to spend.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

The way we've been playing is you roll the extra dice, then decide if you want to reroll any of them. If you decide you don't want to reroll then you don't spend the token. (Obviously you can't use the token on a future attack as that's then a second use of the same command)

You've been play contrary to the rules as written then.

The rules don't allow you to string bet the spending and resolution of your dial before deciding if you wish to add the token effect. You are not entitled to that extra information when making the choice to spend.

I agree that if 'one command(type) per round' means one of the following:

- use a dial, OR

- use a token, OR

- use a combination of dial+token

then it excludes:

- use a dial and then later a token

- use a token and then later a dial.

That said, I agree with chrisdk when he says:

I do expect this to be a point for errata though.

But, then maybe 'concentrate fire' means just that: put your eggs in one basket.

We'll have to see. Until we hear otherwise, I do think that the RAW is as above.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

The way we've been playing is you roll the extra dice, then decide if you want to reroll any of them. If you decide you don't want to reroll then you don't spend the token. (Obviously you can't use the token on a future attack as that's then a second use of the same command)

You've been play contrary to the rules as written then.

The rules don't allow you to string bet the spending and resolution of your dial before deciding if you wish to add the token effect. You are not entitled to that extra information when making the choice to spend.

I agree that if 'one command(type) per round' means one of the following:

- use a dial, OR

- use a token, OR

- use a combination of dial+token

then it excludes:

- use a dial and then later a token

- use a token and then later a dial.

That said, I agree with chrisdk when he says:

I do expect this to be a point for errata though.

But, then maybe 'concentrate fire' means just that: put your eggs in one basket.

We'll have to see. Until we hear otherwise, I do think that the RAW is as above.

I am feely slightly misquoted here:

I don't believe there will be an errata to allow you to spend your token after having more information. I expect there to be an errata that puts a "may" in the token effect so that you may choose not to take the reroll even though you spent a token with the dial.

Your opponent was correct - you can only resolve a specific command type (Squadron, in this case) once per turn. You can spend both the dial and the token at the same time, but you have to declare that that is what you are doing.

Actually I'd question that. I think as long as you hadn't moved onto anything else then you are still resolving the squadron command and still able to add the token to combine the effect.

If you look at the focus fire command and token, using the same logic that you have to declare you are using them both together you would say this before rolling the extra dice. What if when you rolled the dice you didn't need to reroll any of them using the token, have you lost the token?

The way we've been playing is you roll the extra dice, then decide if you want to reroll any of them. If you decide you don't want to reroll then you don't spend the token. (Obviously you can't use the token on a future attack as that's then a second use of the same command)

As to your Concentrate Fire example: It is likely even worse. The token effect has no "may" in its wording, so technically you are a) forced to declare spending both beforehand and then b) have to reroll even though you may not want to. Hence if you have a roll that is already made up completely with results you wouldn't want to reroll, you shouldn't spend the token with the dial.

I do expect this to be a point for errata though.

I just realized, I don't think the Consentrate Fire Dial+Token is as much of a gamble as first understood. RRG about Consentrate Fire (Timing):

"Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack."

That is step 3, so the decision to spend the command comes after the initial roll of the gathered pool, so just doing the dial would roll and add another dice or if from the initial roll there is a prime candidate for reroll you can do dial+token to do both but of course you cannot use the other if only one was spent on another attack (as discussed earlier). Does that make sense? I think we are (mistakenly) thinking at the beginning of the attack "oh I need to add that dice from Consentrate Fire now, will I need the reroll too?" Does that make sense or am I off base?

That said, I agree with chrisdk when he says:

I do expect this to be a point for errata though.

But, then maybe 'concentrate fire' means just that: put your eggs in one basket.

We'll have to see. Until we hear otherwise, I do think that the RAW is as above.

I am feely slightly misquoted here:

I don't believe there will be an errata to allow you to spend your token after having more information. I expect there to be an errata that puts a "may" in the token effect so that you may choose not to take the reroll even though you spent a token with the dial.

Aha, I see what you're saying. You're saying that the errata would say that you won't have to reroll if you just got a really awesome roll. Gotcha.

I'm pretty curious when they're going to publish a FAQ now.