I'm buying the Raider for Vader and Advanced fixes. The raider itself will join my Tantive decorating my cubicle.

Until NASA comes out with a scale model of the James Webb Telescope. Then one of them will get bumped.

http://jwst.nasa.gov/papermodel.html

Did it. None of them are quite desk quality. At least when I make them.

This one right here:

I'm kinda disappointed with FFG on this one. We waited like 5 months for a new article, and we finally get one that spoils only 3 mediocre crew options and not Palpatine. The Raider has officially lost my interest, and that's why I decided to spend my money on starting Armada instead. Id rather just proxy the Tie Advanced cards it comes with, because that's about the only good thing about it.

Anyone else agree with me?

Get over yourself.

Also, i mean. You should just play more team epic at 200. I think youll be pleasantly surprised. And then buy both raiders.

I'm buying a mini raider too. Its too cute and silly. I'm gonna put it right on the base underneath the big raider.

"Now son, stay close to me. Those Rebels look like they're spoiling for a fight."

Don't agree with the OP but if that's the way he feels then more power to him. I'm not sure that FFG will notice much difference either way and ultimately you have to do what makes you happy.

I don't agree with all the people having a go at him either. So you don't agree with his opinion? Fine. But no need to tell him to 'get over himself'. That's just silly.

I'll be buying both!

And I will do the opposite, put my xwing Raider next to an Armada VSD I'm sure it will look really cool!

Already tried the transport!

I guess there's more than one reason to call them spoilers.

Haha! Disappointed with how FFG won't talk about X-wing stuff, so you are going over to FFG Armada and expect it to be better? Oh, it's the shiny, new toy now, but what happens in a year? Also, maybe it's the Armada stuff that's affecting the X-wing stuff?

I'm disappointed with the article, not the ship.

Also, i mean. You should just play more team epic at 200. I think youll be pleasantly surprised. And then buy both raiders.

I'm buying a mini raider too. Its too cute and silly. I'm gonna put it right on the base underneath the big raider.

I'll buy both and fly them together in formation.

Just I what I am dying to see more of my xwing forum...

People talking about what armada crap they want..

you will join us

it is inveitable

It is your destiny

(someone please please please please please make us an Uncle Palpatine poster)

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

Nope.

Quoted for truth.

Agreed.

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

This again. It's $100 (or in real money £80) for a really big, really pretty model that will finally properly open up a whole new level of play to many like myself who have held off thus far on playing epic. It's potentially a real game changer for the community in every sense of the word. And because FFG are nice like that, they also threw in a TIE Advanced repaint and four copies of the 'fix' for the TIE Advanced as a little bonus.

If you don't want to play epic then that's fine and you should feel absolutely free to buy the cards you want separately. But to imply that anyone who DOES want to buy it is foolish, or that FFG are trying to 'rip you off' is ludicrous. If they really were as mean as you imply, why four copies of each TIE Advanced upgrade in the Raider pack? Why not one or two, making you buy multiple copies to equip a full 100 pt squad?

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

Ebay is way over priced. Breaking it down in terms of cost per card:

$70 for 7 cards on ebay. Even if you just want 3 cards = $30...

The Raider xpac is $68 if you buy online.

So for $40 more you get a ton more cards, advanced mini and the Raider.

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

This again. It's $100 (or in real money £80) for a really big, really pretty model that will finally properly open up a whole new level of play to many like myself who have held off thus far on playing epic. It's potentially a real game changer for the community in every sense of the word. And because FFG are nice like that, they also threw in a TIE Advanced repaint and four copies of the 'fix' for the TIE Advanced as a little bonus.

If you don't want to play epic then that's fine and you should feel absolutely free to buy the cards you want separately. But to imply that anyone who DOES want to buy it is foolish, or that FFG are trying to 'rip you off' is ludicrous. If they really were as mean as you imply, why four copies of each TIE Advanced upgrade in the Raider pack? Why not one or two, making you buy multiple copies to equip a full 100 pt squad?

Where did I imply that people that want the Raider for Epic play are foolish to buy it? It does not say that anywhere in my post.

Can you admit that it is extremely burdensome to someone that wants the new TIE Advanced cards but don't want to play Epic? Can you also admit that there was no need to bundle the Advanced and the Raider together, that they could have sold each as separate expansions, and the only reason they are bundled is to get non-epic players to buy epic ships?

I wasn't telling anyone they were foolish for buying the raider, I was just giving what I feel is a legit reason to not buy the ship, unlike the OP's.

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

Ebay is way over priced. Breaking it down in terms of cost per card:

$70 for 7 cards on ebay. Even if you just want 3 cards = $30...

The Raider xpac is $68 if you buy online.

So for $40 more you get a ton more cards, advanced mini and the Raider.

the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10

That means they will be $5 each and you can get both for $10. The ship with all the pilot cards usually gets sold for $15-25.

So If all I want is the title and the ATC so I can fly Vader in the TIE Advanced I already own, then I would be stupid to pay $70 for them when I could spend $10, or $45 max if all I want is 2 of the title and ATC and the model with all the pilot cards.

Again, I would be stupid to pay $70 online for something that I can get for $45 online. Others might be justified in deciding to buy the expansion, and more power to them, but my decision to not buy the Raider is also justified.

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

This again. It's $100 (or in real money £80) for a really big, really pretty model that will finally properly open up a whole new level of play to many like myself who have held off thus far on playing epic. It's potentially a real game changer for the community in every sense of the word. And because FFG are nice like that, they also threw in a TIE Advanced repaint and four copies of the 'fix' for the TIE Advanced as a little bonus.

If you don't want to play epic then that's fine and you should feel absolutely free to buy the cards you want separately. But to imply that anyone who DOES want to buy it is foolish, or that FFG are trying to 'rip you off' is ludicrous. If they really were as mean as you imply, why four copies of each TIE Advanced upgrade in the Raider pack? Why not one or two, making you buy multiple copies to equip a full 100 pt squad?

Where did I imply that people that want the Raider for Epic play are foolish to buy it? It does not say that anywhere in my post.

Can you admit that it is extremely burdensome to someone that wants the new TIE Advanced cards but don't want to play Epic? Can you also admit that there was no need to bundle the Advanced and the Raider together, that they could have sold each as separate expansions, and the only reason they are bundled is to get non-epic players to buy epic ships?

I wasn't telling anyone they were foolish for buying the raider, I was just giving what I feel is a legit reason to not buy the ship, unlike the OP's.

Fine you didn't say that people were foolish to buy it, you just implied that it was a cheap sales tactic by FFG to sell product and make lots of money, a trick which you would not be falling for. I guess you really meant that anyone who did fall for it was a super smart person.

I *could* admit that it was burdensome, but for the fact that you have said yourself that you will be able to pick the cards up for $10 so I don't really see where the burden lies? As to whether there was a 'need' to bundle the cards with the Raider. How else would you have them do it? An Imperial Aces II pack, wherein you would get two copies of the card so still have to spend £50 RRP (or whatever the $ equivalent is) in order to get your cards? Would that be somehow much less burdensome?

It seems to me (forgive me) at this point that your moan is unfounded. Your reason for not buying I get - you have no interest in the Raider or Epic and that's fine, that's the way you roll, we're all cool. But it's the fact that you feel hard done by enough to raise it as a 'burden' even though by your own admission it'll be easy enough to pick up what you need for $10. It just strikes me as a waste of energy is all. But it's your energy, so you know, go nuts

I can't believe you let them trick you. The whole point of not showing any X-Wing spoilers for so long was to get X-Wing players to buy Armada. You've played right into their hands.

I was never going to buy the Raider, the X1 title and ATC cards will be available on ebay for $10, I refuse to tell FFG with my money that charging $100 for a TIE Advanced is okay.

This again. It's $100 (or in real money £80) for a really big, really pretty model that will finally properly open up a whole new level of play to many like myself who have held off thus far on playing epic. It's potentially a real game changer for the community in every sense of the word. And because FFG are nice like that, they also threw in a TIE Advanced repaint and four copies of the 'fix' for the TIE Advanced as a little bonus.

If you don't want to play epic then that's fine and you should feel absolutely free to buy the cards you want separately. But to imply that anyone who DOES want to buy it is foolish, or that FFG are trying to 'rip you off' is ludicrous. If they really were as mean as you imply, why four copies of each TIE Advanced upgrade in the Raider pack? Why not one or two, making you buy multiple copies to equip a full 100 pt squad?

Where did I imply that people that want the Raider for Epic play are foolish to buy it? It does not say that anywhere in my post.

Can you admit that it is extremely burdensome to someone that wants the new TIE Advanced cards but don't want to play Epic? Can you also admit that there was no need to bundle the Advanced and the Raider together, that they could have sold each as separate expansions, and the only reason they are bundled is to get non-epic players to buy epic ships?

I wasn't telling anyone they were foolish for buying the raider, I was just giving what I feel is a legit reason to not buy the ship, unlike the OP's.

Fine you didn't say that people were foolish to buy it, you just implied that it was a cheap sales tactic by FFG to sell product and make lots of money, a trick which you would not be falling for. I guess you really meant that anyone who did fall for it was a super smart person.

I *could* admit that it was burdensome, but for the fact that you have said yourself that you will be able to pick the cards up for $10 so I don't really see where the burden lies? As to whether there was a 'need' to bundle the cards with the Raider. How else would you have them do it? An Imperial Aces II pack, wherein you would get two copies of the card so still have to spend £50 RRP (or whatever the $ equivalent is) in order to get your cards? Would that be somehow much less burdensome?

It seems to me (forgive me) at this point that your moan is unfounded. Your reason for not buying I get - you have no interest in the Raider or Epic and that's fine, that's the way you roll, we're all cool. But it's the fact that you feel hard done by enough to raise it as a 'burden' even though by your own admission it'll be easy enough to pick up what you need for $10. It just strikes me as a waste of energy is all. But it's your energy, so you know, go nuts

I never said it would be "easy", I said it would be cheap. Stop putting words in my mouth, that's the second time you've done it.

It is burdensome in that I have scour ebay for the pieces I want, figure out how to purchase them all with the lowest shipping costs, hope I'm not getting scammed, and wait weeks for them to ship instead of walking into the store and getting them when they come out and supporting my local game store like a good gamer should.

Yes, a standalone expansion pack for $45 with all the TIE Advanced pieces from the Raider would be hugely preferable to the current offer. As soon as it came out, I could walk into my LGS, pick up my copy off the shelf, hand over my money, and go home knowing that everything is in my hands as promised by FFG's customer service and not just some ebay seller's feedback, and be able to play with the cards right away.

If you are the person that wants the Raider and the Advanced, great for you, this bundle only makes your life easier. But don't pretend that the people that don't play Epic are somehow lucky to have to overpay for the new TIE Advanced because there's a giant grey piece of plastic and a bunch of "Huge Ship Only" upgrades that we can't use.

Some of us don't decorate our house with toys.

Edit: Look, I'm not trying complain about the Raider, that time is long over and I said my piece when it was first announced, I was just saying what my personal reasons are for choosing not to buy it, since it seemed on-topic with OP's post, and then you guys started attacking me for it, putting words in my mouth that I never said. I wasn't criticizing anyone that chooses to buy the Raider, but I won't let people **** on me for choosing not to buy it and not letting a smart financial decision prevent me from playing with the new TIE Advanced.

Ok. Not really sure what the intent of that remark is? To demonstrate that you are somehow much better and more mature than me because I might have some toys on display in my house whereas you only collect the toys to push them around a table and roll dice, a far more inherently worthy pursuit? We all collect and play with toys - that's why we are here. If you think otherwise then you my friend are in a fair amount of denial

Edit: Look, I'm not trying complain about the Raider, that time is long over and I said my piece when it was first announced, I was just saying what my personal reasons are for choosing not to buy it, since it seemed on-topic with OP's post, and then you guys started attacking me for it, putting words in my mouth that I never said. I wasn't criticizing anyone that chooses to buy the Raider, but I won't let people **** on me for choosing not to buy it and not letting that decision prevent me from playing with the new TIE Advanced.

I'm not attacking you, I'm disagreeing with you. And it's pretty disingenuous to hide behind this 'I never actually said those words' defence when the implications of sme of what you said was fairly clear (I agree that you never said or implied that people were idiots for buying it - that was humorous exaggeration on my part). I'm certainly not trying to **** (whatever that is) on you for choosing not to buy it. I honestly couldn't care less whether you buy it or not, I just think that your moaning about the price point when you have made it more than clear that you don't intend to buy it is a little odd.

That's all.

Blagmasterg, I am not your enemy. Why is it that every time I say something that points out that we are different, you feel like it's an insult? Why can't I be proud of living my life the way I do without you feeling like you're being belittled?

I don't decorate my house with toys. This is in reponse to "it's such a beautiful model even if you don't play epic". That doesn't mean I think you shouldn't, or that I'm better than you, it means I don't get the same value from having a giant piece of plastic that you do if I'm not playing with it. So you can't tell me the Raider model is worth so much money if I don't decorate my house with toys (I play games with them on a table at a game store).

I dislike shopping on ebay. You find it easy to shop on ebay, so what, I'm being overdramatic for disliking ebay?

Your claim that I would have to buy 2 expansions is just false. All I want is to play with the TIE Advanced I already own but with the X1 title and ATC. Why would I have to buy 2 expansions to do that?

I admit, I may have gone "no true scotsman" to say that good gamers buy from an LGS, but if you play games on a local game store's tables, it would be nice if you supported them by buying product from them. If you only play games in your house, which means you never go to tournaments, then it doesn't matter where you buy.

"I never said that" is not a valid defense, but "I was just kidding when I flat out lied about you" is? There was nothing humorous in your first post about me, and you know it. "But to imply that anyone who DOES want to buy it is foolish, or that FFG are trying to 'rip you off' is ludicrous." Oh yeah, funny joke, very humurous [/sarcasm].

If you're going to disagree with someone, disagree with what is said, not what you think is implied. As someone who has dealt with the consequences of being libeled and slandered, as soon as you start claiming I said things that I didn't, I consider it an attack. You should try to take people at face value and not try to find the hidden insults that you think they must be "implying".

Why did I waste all this time arguing with you about this? Because I want people like you to at least understand why people like me are upset about the Raider, and why FFG's bundling decision has put us in a difficult position of overpay, be locked out of the X1 title, or give our money to someone that isn't our local game store. If I can get even one of you people (bundling defenders) to at least acknowledge that some people are getting the short end of the stick because of the X1 being bundled instead of sold in its own expansion, then this will be worth it.

Ok. I'm gonna try and pick my way through this very carefully.

1. No you aren't my enemy, nor am I yours.

2. I said I wasn't sure of the intention of the remark. I guessed at one. Wrongly it would seem.

3. We all have our preferences. If we are playing the 'I never said this' game, I didn't say that you were overdramatic for not liking eBay, I said that worrying about whether you would get ripped off as part of the process was a little oversensitive in my opinion. You don't like shopping on eBay, fine. I wasn't aware of this. I am now. My bad.

4. The 'buying two expansions' was to get the same number of cards you get with the Raider. IA only had two of each of the 'fix' upgrades in it, so I would assume that a similar pack as I had outlines would have 2 X1 upgrades. If that was all you wanted then of course, that would be grand. If you wanted four, you'd need to buy two. My point kinda ends there.

5. Ok so I may have gone overboard with the implications. For me, when someone generally says 'I won't be buying this thing because FFG are ripping people off with it' (or whatever your exact words were, I don't want a whole other argument about that) then I see an implication that anyone who does buy it must be falling for the rip off that you see. Especially if you have taken the time to write it out on a forum. Nevertheless, if that isn't what you meant then fair enough that isn't what you meant. But I didn't 'flat out lie' about you, nor did I attack you. For what it's worth, the fact that you cite previous incidents of 'libel' and 'slander' and use words like 'attack' in the context of this whole exchange suggests to me that you are predisposed to be a little oversensitive about this stuff. That's just an opinion though, not an attack or a criticism. I certainly never intended you to be upset by what I was saying, I was merely having a discussion.

6. On that note, you may want to look at your own advice here buddy, because you are taking everything I say as an attack rather than as a face value discursive comment.

7. I get that you don't like the Raider, god alone knows you have explained it enough and I have been at pains to make it clear that I understand and acknowledge this. It isn't your cup of tea. That's cool. I have no desire to try and convert you. I don't personally agree with you, but that's the way that the world goes around. I happen to like it, I think it's a nice addition to the game and I look forward to using it. You don't. We will never agree. I'm fine with that. My only point in the first place (and still) was that having made it perfectly clear to everyone that you wouldn't be buying it and why not, I didn't understand why you still wanted to have a moan about it. Now I do, though I still don't relate. So thanks.

Let's leave it there I guess. I have no desire to further upset you.

I appreciate your willingness to engage me on the subject.

You are right that my past experience with slander has made me more sensitive to it, but that's because I know what can happen when one person makes a false claim about another and it goes uncontested.

I went back and realized I misread your all-caps ebay joke as being about what I had said, so I apologize for that. But I did feel you were reading things into my comments that weren't there, possibly based on things you've heard other people say.

I think the Raider is a great addition to Epic play and I'm glad that Epic players will finally have an Imperial option. I just wish the rest of us weren't forced to deal with it's large price tag in order to play with the new toys for the TIE Advanced in standard play.

Thank you for hearing me out.

No problem. Let's bro hug it out and go back to what REALLY matters - those darned little plastic ships and how FFG keeps making them so gosh darned desirable and taking away all my spare money