I once thought that an increase in range for certain ships would make life fun. Eg. Bomber only card. Increase range of all missiles and torps by 1.

The ability to attack at range 4 hardly helps if you acquire a TL up to range 3.

An upgrade that allows to acquire a TL (but not attack) at range 4 (and maybe 5) would help. If hat is a missile upgrade card very few ships can pair it with extra munitions.

Agreed, that was a problem I faced when discussing the possibility of increasing range.

I felt it was more thematic and true to the ship's role. I thought it may have been enjoyable and thematic to have your bomber sit at a longer range and fire off its ordnance. The other ships could protect it or flank. The opponent has to prioritise their targets. That is, choose between closing the gap and hit the missile platform OR deal with the escort.

Out of the top of my head:

Missile upgrade card, limited

Add one missile icon to your upgrade bar. If you have a missile or torpedo upgrade card equipped that is a secondary weapon, increase that weapon's range by one and you may acquire a target lock up to range 5 (instead of 3).

Points: No idea.

Torpedo upgrade card, limited

Add one torpedo icon to your upgrade bar. If you have a missile or torpedo upgrade card equipped that is a secondary weapon, increase that weapon's range by one and you may acquire a target lock up to range 5 (instead of 3).

Points: No idea.

Bombers might equip both, which is not intended.

OP:

Proton Rockets are situationally efficient. They are an excellent choice, in my opinion, for Jake Farrell: he has an easy time deploying them due to his pilot ability and he can take both VI and PtL, allowing him to get in close to most desirable targets and lock them up for 5 super hot reds shot at PS9. Delete Soonitr, Whisper or Howlrunner with that and you'll have your 3 point investment paid for many times over (Note that you will really, really, really want to bid for the initiative here - so the rockets will actually have a 2-4 point 'tax' on them.

Concussion Missiles are also situationally efficient. They'll forgive a blank, so if you put it on someone who can take a Focus action, you'll get plenty of bang for your 4 points (Vader, any Elite with PtL). you pay more up front compared to Proton Rockets and get less damage overall (1 less die, plus they're not 'Focus + TL' hot), but it's not necessary here to pay the initiative bid tax. N'dru with PtL would probably like one of these things.

The rest of the missiles & torpedoes, in my opinion, cannot rise above the crippling action economy expense & ridiculous price tag. Some of it probably costs twice as much as it's actually worth.

What if missiles and torpedoes automatically bypassed shields?

What if missiles and torpedoes automatically bypassed shields?

What if missiles and torpedoes automatically bypassed shields?

Then they still wouldn't see play, because the same fundamental action economy problem would exist and the benefit - while powerful - is too situational. B-Wing lists might fear some of the missiles, but any hypothetical list that tried to abuse them to smash B-Wing lists would likely just die to... well, anything else, really.

Well, amongst the meta ships...

Big ships aren't super bothered because they aren't likely to die before they normally would (youd have to not run out of ordnance before the ship died or else be forced to chug through shields per normal play) with maybe a couple exceptions.

B-wing lifespan becomes shockingly cut down. Z-95 too. A-wing, three.

Phantoms might be a little bothered, or at least given a smaller margin of error.

Corran horn becomes frightened.

The rest wouldn't care about the change at all.

In general cannons put missiles to shame as they have the same benefit but you can fire multiple times.

Mostly yeah, they're not worth the points, but there are definite exceptions.

Even with Scimitar Squadron Pilots, I'm learning you can get some mileage out of ordnance if you run them alongside someone with high PS and Squad Leader that can pass out TLs to them much, much later in the round. So your Bomber focuses, Vader/Howlrunner/Chirpy/Jendon passes them a TL later on once you know where the enemy actually is, and then your bomber has a modifiable attack to launch at the bad guys. Bonus points for Homing Missiles, as they'll let you TL+Focus for that attack, ignoring those pesky Evade tokens. Not super amazing still, but with the EM upgrade on the way it'll become a solid combo in my book.

Speaking of EM: I absolutely can't wait to play with Rhymer using Extra Munitions, Advanced Protons, and Ion Pulse Missiles. If you can avoid him getting murdered too quickly, he'll be able to lay out some serious pain. It's already a nasty combo, but too pricey for a one-time go. But if for two more points you can do it twice... maybe Rhymer finally becomes worth his steep price tag, as you should be able to lay out two small base ships with that.

Another fun, cheapish low-PS missile-boat is a Gray Squadron Pilot with R2-D6 and Deadeye and/or Dutch Vander flying alongside (depending on the ordnance you're packing). Give him regular Proton Torps, let Vander pass a TL off, then have the Gray fire with Deadeye. Proton already lets you modifying one eye, and you can then use the TL to re-roll any other dice.

Our group is relatively new to X-wings but we have lots of gaming experience. Torpedoes, Missiles, and to a lesser degree Bombs seem a waste. We are experimenting with alternate house rules to make them more useful and worth their points. Here are two variants. Please comment.

1. Allow the Torpedoes and Missiles to fire 360 degrees (all other rules stay the same for the weapon). The thought here is that in 2016 we have cruise missiles that can fire in any direction from a ship or plane.

2. Allow the Target Lock to modify the die roll as in any other target lock. These are one use weapons so give them an advantage.

Torpedoes and missiles should be a devastating weapon if they hit. However, in our use the Tie Bomber's salvo seldom does any more than knock out shields and then it gets killed by the X-wing it was fighting.

Thoughts?

In a way you're correct, but only because (I'm guessing) you don't have enough of the newer expansion on your collection. Up until 2016 those weapon upgrades under performed, exactly as you've discovered, but over the past 2-3 waves there have been a series of new upgrades and new ordnance & bombs, that can allow for some beastly squad builds. Deadeye, Guidance Chips, and Plasma Torpedoes, combined with the right astromech on the base JumpMaster 5000 was so devastatingly efficient that FFG had to errata Deadeye to be small ship only.

And if you watched the MD Regionals this past weekend, you'd have seen my friend Jade bomb her way to 7th place out of 91 players, and many of them were some of the best player in the game. When it comes to Ordnance and Bombs It's all about the build and how you use it now.

ps: If you haven't done so already, you guys need to download the FAQ. There's been several rulings on how cards interact, and several minor, but key changes to the text on the printed cards.

Heh, blast from the past Funny how things can change in a year and a half. Yep, ordnance sucked, that was both consensus and fact.

The upgrades you need to make them work are primarily:

• Guidance Chips, which come in Inquisitor's TIE and Punishing One
• Extra Munitions, which come in K-Wing and TIE Punisher

With these, Homing Missiles, Proton Torpedoes and Plasma Torpedoes become rather intimidating. There's also lovely new bombs in the K-Wing and TIE Punisher.

Heh, blast from the past Funny how things can change in a year and a half. Yep, ordnance sucked, that was both consensus and fact.

The upgrades you need to make them work are primarily:

• Guidance Chips, which come in Inquisitor's TIE and Punishing One
• Extra Munitions, which come in K-Wing and TIE Punisher

With these, Homing Missiles, Proton Torpedoes and Plasma Torpedoes become rather intimidating. There's also lovely new bombs in the K-Wing and TIE Punisher.

Don't forget Long range scanners. They are the number one mod for me (especially when using Homing missiles)

Very nice necromancy.

I agree with every thing said so far. I really wanted them to work but I guess it's not to be. I don't have faith the FFG will fix them. I appears to me that they keep throwing band-aids at it and hope that it goes away. Oh well.

I guess it's really to later for a remedy but I believe that Missile and Torpedoes should be the Primary weapon of the Tie Bomber and the Y-Wing, and just as effective. I saddy leave behind my favorite ship the Tie Bomber and move into some thing else.

Don't discount the Tie Bomber, it's actually a very effective swarm ship, with the best cost to health value in the game. Just don't bother putting torpedoes or missiles on them. They have a decent dial if you learn how to use it effectively, and most people aren't used to facing them, which can be an advantage.

That's an old post of mine. EM, Bren, and most upgrades that have been mentioned were added long after this thread began (nearly 2 years ago?). Much of the old consensus should be ignored or reassessed.

I was going to suggest a Mod upgrade that allowed missiles & torps to home in on Target Locked ships no matter the locked ships' range or bearing. Treat it like a one shot turret with unlimited range. Anything beyond R3 would get a 2nd green die.

My biggest frustration with ordnance is that they often blow up, unused, with the ship that's carrying them.

-clipped-

My biggest frustration with ordnance is that they often blow up, unused, with the ship that's carrying them.

Google the "rule of 11", and "Alpha Strike". Those may help you.

Hi all,

i was just wondering how where the missile and torpedo conversation at present? I can see this thread took place a while ago before there were upgrades like munitions failsafe and extra munitions.

Are missiles and torpedoes still na t the best use of points?

You missed the Wave 8 meta before timing charts were introduced.

As I said before Target lock is the problem. When it was bypassed by Jumpmasters who were able to focus, dead-eye fora a target lock on any ship inside their firing arc, and R4-Agro to gain a target lock on the defender for dice modification. They were unstoppable that FFG had nerfed them thrice.

Well Jumpmasters still do well with torpedoes but the problem is torpedoes don't do well on anything else. Given that jumpmasters are a PWT too they don't need to have an alpha strike that can kill TLT-wings with the PWT to kill arc-dodgers.

Short version:

By themselves, ordnance is not worth it. Ordnance force multiplier cards are just that -multipliers - so the more you have the more each is worth. Extra munitions plus guidance chips/long range scanners plus an ept like deadeye or crackshot is scary as hell,but relatively few platforms can carry all of these.

Another force multiplier is Miranda Doni. Her ability to trade a shield for and extra die on a Homing Missile alpha strike is not to be taken lightly. Long Range Scanners to guarantee a danger zone against aces who are also denied spending an evade.

Torps and missiles have become somewhat of a meta choice because of Biggs (its a way to bypass him). I think ordnance would be less viable if it wasnt for Biggs.

59 minutes ago, Sixter said:

Torps and missiles have become somewhat of a meta choice because of Biggs (its a way to bypass him). I think ordnance would be less viable if it wasnt for Biggs.

Nah, Torp-Boots become dominant in the meta long before Biggs was nerfed by the new timing rules. What makes them good is the ability to put out reliable early damage to burn down key pieces in the enemy list quickly. Nobody ever builds a list to deal with Biggs, at best they would build lists to deal with whatever Biggs is protecting and Rebels are rarely so dominant that dealing with them is your primary concern.

8 minutes ago, Duskwalker said:

Nah, Torp-Boots become dominant in the meta long before Biggs was nerfed by the new timing rules. What makes them good is the ability to put out reliable early damage to burn down key pieces in the enemy list quickly.

I think the U-boats with torps might warp the discussion because they are simply awesome value for what they can do. When they still had deadeye they were borderline ridiculous.

I think the resurgence of rebel Biggs lists that have been doing well at tournaments lately will certainly encourage many players to use ordnance to shake the comfort level of those Biggs lists. Maybe thats just my personal thinking but I would assume there are others thinking on simular terms.

I don't play ordinance typically but I have a friend who swears by cluster missiles and guidance chips to add a double attack to his missile boats, typically imperial.

I've been on the receiving end of it a few times. It can be devastating when he has decent dice.