So...the latest Imperial Raider article has me jazzed about playing Epic. We don't have the Raider yet, but I started to think about how I had always wanted to use the Decimator in matches against the CR-90. Turbo Lasers could actually hit targets!

I have done some Epic with Imperial small ships attacking the Raider. I found that breaking ships down into different groups helps dish out to different players. I also found that using Generics was one of the best ways and with as few upgrades as possible. You just don't forget about it or get bogged down in game play. So, with that, I have come up with an Imperial and a Rebel list that I'd love some feedback on. Do they look like they could fight each other? Is it too one sided?

REBELS - 300 PTS

Group 1

CR-90 Front w/ Sensor Team, Quad Lasers, and Weapons Engineer

CR-90 Rear w/ Tibanna Gas, Single Turbolaser, Jan Dodanna

Bandit Squadron Z-95

Tala Squadron Z-95

Group 2

Garven Dreis

Red Squadron Pilot

2 x Rookie Pilot

Group 3

Blackmoon E-wing w/ FCS

Green Squadron A-wing

Prototype A-wing

IMPERIALS - 300 PTS

Group 1

Patrol Leader w/ Proton Torpedo and Fleet Officer

2 x Scimitar Pilot w/ Concussion Missiles and Cluster Missiles

Group 2

Patrol Leader w/ Proton Torpedo and Gunner

2 x Black Squadron Pilot

2 x Academy Pilo

Group 3

Patrol Leader w/ Proton Torpedo

Saber Squadron Tie Interceptor

Avenger Squadron Tie Interceptor

Alpha Squadron Tie Interceptor

Points wise it is balanced, but does it look like a fair fight? I figure the Imperials each have a big ship to support their small fighters. The Tie Bombers want to get close and fire missiles. The VT-49's get Proton Torpedoes to smash at the big ship. It hates crits. The Tie Fighters and Tie Interceptors can....intercept.

Seem fair? I'd love feedback.

Also, I'm thinking of making a mission with a space station. I figure I'll get some sort of plastic plate or yogurt container or something and build it. What I don't know is what type of stats do I give it? I'm thinking of making 4 sections of the station. Each has shield and hull. Should I make it acquire energy, too? Maybe make it have a turret in the middle and each section has a hard point. It automatically gets 4 energy each turn. Hmmm...what about hull and shield? What about points value?

Hard to say who has an advantage with those two lists, but I'd guess Imperials. If I were you I'd switch the Blackmoon out for Etahn A'baht, though.

As for space stations, I did write a mission with a pretty killer space station for my narrative campaign. It hasn't been tested rigorously yet, but looking at that may give you some ideas for what you want to do.

Uhh. I don't mean any offense but these lists look highly casual. =)

AOE effects are very effective.

A group of Howl swarm. maybe 5, or up to 12.

Etahn

Roark PS12 Corvette? Heck yes.

Scum Boba

As for space stations, we played with a space station idea before, but if its a one side shoot it down scenario it CANNOT BE BALANCED. adding extra points to the attackers wont help unless those extra ships are the only ones that can attack the station or cant attack fighters or some restriction.

I used 8 hull 0agi. It seemed fine for a moderately killable station. 10hull might be ok too. Any more than that and youre commiting a full turn against the station and suiciding against the fighters as you will have unanswered return fire by 300 pts of ships on you that turn. Thats a TON of damage.

As for space stations, we played with a space station idea before, but if its a one side shoot it down scenario it CANNOT BE BALANCED. adding extra points to the attackers wont help unless those extra ships are the only ones that can attack the station or cant attack fighters or some restriction.

I used 8 hull 0agi. It seemed fine for a moderately killable station. 10hull might be ok too. Any more than that and youre commiting a full turn against the station and suiciding against the fighters as you will have unanswered return fire by 300 pts of ships on you that turn. Thats a TON of damage.

You can definitely balance a scenario with a station on one side that has to be destroyed. Balance is just about equalizing each side's chance to win. That's a straightforward equation. If the attackers are having too easy a time, make the station tougher or add more squadron points, or vice versa. It's a straightforward, solvable problem. Suicide Run Syndrome (I think you are both familiar with that) is a natural problem with any 'destroy target' scenario, though.

So balanced - definitely possible, but harder to make interesting.

Hard to say who has an advantage with those two lists, but I'd guess Imperials. If I were you I'd switch the Blackmoon out for Etahn A'baht, though.

As for space stations, I did write a mission with a pretty killer space station for my narrative campaign. It hasn't been tested rigorously yet, but looking at that may give you some ideas for what you want to do.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll have to give the scenario a try. There aren't too many high attack ships in the Imperials, besides the Bombers. I've found in Epic that a mass of Tie Fighters don't do well in taking down the CR-90. If anything, I was worried that the Rebels had too much of an advantage!

Uhh. I don't mean any offense but these lists look highly casual. =)

AOE effects are very effective.

A group of Howl swarm. maybe 5, or up to 12.

Etahn

Roark PS12 Corvette? Heck yes.

Scum Boba

As for space stations, we played with a space station idea before, but if its a one side shoot it down scenario it CANNOT BE BALANCED. adding extra points to the attackers wont help unless those extra ships are the only ones that can attack the station or cant attack fighters or some restriction.

I used 8 hull 0agi. It seemed fine for a moderately killable station. 10hull might be ok too. Any more than that and youre commiting a full turn against the station and suiciding against the fighters as you will have unanswered return fire by 300 pts of ships on you that turn. Thats a TON of damage.

Yes, the list is very casual. It's supposed to be. I'll take it that it's a good list then.

When I play these Epic games I usually play with people who don't play on a regular basis or they do, but they want something light hearted. I don't want something cut throat. I don't want the uber ship that destroys everything. That isn't very fun. Very few special abilities makes the game run smoother and is generally more fun.

I do have to say that have you ever played X-wing when you have to play with Generics? No unique cards at all? Very few upgrades? It's actually a lot of fun! It's the same game, but it's kind of not. It's a lot more thematic.

As for a Space Station, I was thinking of something with a big base. I want something that I can divvy up into 4 sections. I want each section to have hull and shield. Maybe a hard point. It's like a ship where if that section blows up, then the rest of it is OK, but gets less power. Oh, and it turns each turn. Space stations need to spin to generate artificial gravity. So, have the dang thing spin each round. It has a square base and it turns a side each game turn. In that regard, you can't suicide run at it as you will only be able to kill about half of it. I am thinking about having a CR-90 and fighter escort attack the Imperial Space Station. Lots of turbo laser shots at each other. Pew pew! Fighter/bombers of both sides trying to take out the big ships. A little bit of Suicide Run for each side.

Uhh. I don't mean any offense but these lists look highly casual. =)

AOE effects are very effective.

A group of Howl swarm. maybe 5, or up to 12.

Etahn

Roark PS12 Corvette? Heck yes.

Scum Boba

As for space stations, we played with a space station idea before, but if its a one side shoot it down scenario it CANNOT BE BALANCED. adding extra points to the attackers wont help unless those extra ships are the only ones that can attack the station or cant attack fighters or some restriction.

I used 8 hull 0agi. It seemed fine for a moderately killable station. 10hull might be ok too. Any more than that and youre commiting a full turn against the station and suiciding against the fighters as you will have unanswered return fire by 300 pts of ships on you that turn. Thats a TON of damage.

Oh yes, if taking a CR90, and using it to shoot with more than its primary weapon, TAKE ROARK.

I mean, if you dont mind suicide run then its easy to balance. the difficulty is making it interesting.

i mean, you can always just deathball your opponent and shoot everything he has that shoots. and might end with his lamentation that all his ships are dead either before or after the target is dead.

honestly, the death star inthe movie is a suicide run, its just.... the movie with plot makes it interesting. on a game. depends on what your opinion is.

Personally, im not fond of suicide runs.

7x Blue Squadron + Fire Control System + E/2 + Tactician

1x Gold Squadron + Ion Cannont Turret + R3-A2 + BTL title

1x Transport + Dutyfree + Frequency Jammer + WED-12 repair droid + Slicer Tools

1x Transport + Frequency Jammer + Slicer Tools

I think that's nearly 300 points give or take.

Fly the transports very aggressively. Buy 7 Phantoms to field enough tacticians

If one side has the station, the other should need a huge ship. The scenario can be balanced as a "kill the king" sort of win condition.

7x Blue Squadron + Fire Control System + E/2 + Tactician

1x Gold Squadron + Ion Cannont Turret + R3-A2 + BTL title

1x Transport + Dutyfree + Frequency Jammer + WED-12 repair droid + Slicer Tools

1x Transport + Frequency Jammer + Slicer Tools

I think that's nearly 300 points give or take.

Fly the transports very aggressively. Buy 7 Phantoms to field enough tacticians

Ugh....that looks terrible. I want a casual and fun Epic game. Not a face-punch.

If one side has the station, the other should need a huge ship. The scenario can be balanced as a "kill the king" sort of win condition.

Of course. I figure make it a double suicide run and that could be fun.

I mean, if you dont mind suicide run then its easy to balance. the difficulty is making it interesting.

i mean, you can always just deathball your opponent and shoot everything he has that shoots. and might end with his lamentation that all his ships are dead either before or after the target is dead.

honestly, the death star inthe movie is a suicide run, its just.... the movie with plot makes it interesting. on a game. depends on what your opinion is.

Personally, im not fond of suicide runs.

I'm making more and more targets that have their own defense guns. That way you can't just beat your enemy's ships by a slim margin and clean up the objective. There are other ways of applying pressure to the attackers, like reinforcements, off-board support fire, etc.

Roark PS12 Corvette? Heck yes.

CR90 Corvette (Fore) (50)

Han Solo (2)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Gunnery Team (4)

Engineering Team (4)

Comms Booster (4)

Dodonna's Pride (4)

CR90 Corvette (Aft) (40)

WED-15 Repair Droid (2)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Shield Projector (4)

Jan Ors (25)

Swarm Tactics (2)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Kyle Katarn (3)

Shield Upgrade (4)

Moldy Crow (3)

Total: 174

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I much prefer this pairing over Roark.

A) SIX DICE PRIMARY!

B) PS8 from Swarm Tactics

C) Shield Projector and Comms Booster to return the favors.

D) not sure if CB triggers KK, but with MC that's synergy.

Came up with this one by accident. Fly this right into the face of a Howl Runner Swarm (because who isn't bringing one of those in an epic game?) and laugh. Great synergy with comms booster and Jan Ors. For bonus throw in Kyle Katarn.

The Ultimate Falcon V1: 3 guaranteed evades and 3 Focus Tokens, possibly TL from huge ship coordinate.

Chewbacca (42)

Push The Limit (3)

C3PO (3)

Recon Specialist (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

The Ultimate Falcon V2: 3-5 Evades and 2-4 Focus tokens + LW re-rolls

Chewbacca (42)

Lone Wolf (2)

C3PO (3)

Lando (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Experimental Interface (3)

Synergy Ships:

Huge Ship (X)

Comms Booster (4)

Kyle Katarn (21)

Jan Ors (2)

...

Great synergy with comms booster and Jan Ors.

...

Generally what I do is divide each side's points up into 100 point lists, create a bunch of spam lists like 8 TIEs or 5 Alphas and 5 Auto thrusters or 4 Gamma Squadrons with Proton bombs or whatever, and just put a bunch of those lists together into one huge, beautiful spam list. It's also good to throw in a named pilot or two in one of the lists.

Came up with this one by accident. Fly this right into the face of a Howl Runner Swarm (because who isn't bringing one of those in an epic game?) and laugh.

Me. I won't run Howlrunner in an epic game. Also, I am building both lists. I want to run it without a lot of bells and whistles. I find Epic games like this are more fun and can pull in people who aren't players. I ran the Trench Run game and got 2-3 people to buy into the game with it. Over complicated rules tend to scare new gamers away.

Generally what I do is divide each side's points up into 100 point lists, create a bunch of spam lists like 8 TIEs or 5 Alphas and 5 Auto thrusters or 4 Gamma Squadrons with Proton bombs or whatever, and just put a bunch of those lists together into one huge, beautiful spam list. It's also good to throw in a named pilot or two in one of the lists.

I do this, as well. I break it down to either 100 or 50 pt groups, depending on how many people I expect. I have found, though, that I don't like to give too much of one thing to the same player. I also don't like one player having the same PS as it really bogs down the game.

Generally what I do is divide each side's points up into 100 point lists, create a bunch of spam lists like 8 TIEs or 5 Alphas and 5 Auto thrusters or 4 Gamma Squadrons with Proton bombs or whatever, and just put a bunch of those lists together into one huge, beautiful spam list. It's also good to throw in a named pilot or two in one of the lists.

We started doing this when my group began to play Epic because in a game 3v3 at 300 points it made sense. Then we did a 2v2 where we kind of divided the points unequally. I flew a Tantive and my partner flew the rest. Naturally the Tantive messes up the whole 3-prong effect because it's generally 120-130+ points so the other 2 groups will suffer. However, that's when we discovered something amazing. If you can break the 100 point barrier even just by a little bit with a group and somehow make another group perform at a discount you can come up with some amazing combos. If you ever were building a 100 point squad and thought man if I had just 10 more points I could make this so much better. That's what you can do in Epic and IMO where the larger games shine. Try and step outside the 100 point box just a little bit, use it as a guideline and not a ceiling and I think you'll be very pleased. An example for 110 points, these guys were all stars in the last game we played:

Gold Squadron Pilot (26) x 2

Y-Wing (18), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0),

R2 Astromech (1),

Bomb Loadout (0),

Ion Cannon Turret (5),

Seismic Charges (2)

Gold Squadron Pilot (27)

Y-Wing (18), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0),

R3-A2 (2),

Bomb Loadout (0),

Ion Cannon Turret (5),

Seismic Charges (2)

“Dutch” Vander (31)

Y-Wing (23),

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0),

R2 Astromech (1),

Bomb Loadout (0),

Ion Cannon Turret (5),

Seismic Charges (2)