I think as long as its just a card or two from the expensive packs its fine, I would never buy the big dumb ship I don't need just for C3PO, I am not paying FFGs $99 for one card and a ship no one wants to play with, If I can't proxy the card I will play else where, 1 store I go to doesn't pay enough attention to see one card.

If you don't have a card you simply play something else. That's pretty simple. It's just like I don't have enough Interceptors to fly four of them so I have to fly something else.

Now I can agree it would have been much nicer if the Advanced "fix" were coming in a less expensive Aces style pack but then there may still be complaints. The A-Wing "fix" were in an Aces box but you still saw complaints about that.

A rhetorical question, as you pointed out, and one you clearly asked in order to avoid answering my own. I find your continued silence on the matter every bit as satisfactory as it was before, so thank you.

So, where do you work? You obviously think that that information is relevant, so go ahead and share.

It means that their valuing profits. I'm amazed, really, that you translated that to best when it's quite explicit to only be valuing one of many possible measurements.

And why wouldn't profits be the most important measure for a business?

It means that their valuing profits. I'm amazed, really, that you translated that to best when it's quite explicit to only be valuing one of many possible measurements.

And why wouldn't profits be the most important measure for a business?

So, upgrade card packs are not good for the game because lost revenue jepordizes X-wing's future.

It means that their valuing profits. I'm amazed, really, that you translated that to best when it's quite explicit to only be valuing one of many possible measurements.

And why wouldn't profits be the most important measure for a business?

Because sometimes more money goes into making those 'profits' than they actually provide. At other times establishing a good base may be more important than pure profits. There are also times when what the business is doing is "right" and while there are ways to generate more income it is probably much better for many factions that profits not be maximized to encourage maximum usage.

This last one is actually from an episode of Shark Tank. A guy came in with a way to help farmers save on watering. Now that is a great thing to cut back on water (anyone from California care to agree or disagree?) and some of the Sharks were saying he could charge a lot more for his product to get a much higher profit margin. The inventor would even concede that point but said he doesn't want his product to be exclusively for the rich and that gouging the early converters would just be wrong as well. He did end up getting a deal.

Perhaps some of that can be applied to FFG and X-Wing but just 'stealing' stuff by printing your own copies is wrong.

And that's why the Core and Falcon have slimmer margins than other X-wing products. Those that want the cards, but don't buy the ships, still won't buy the ships. And those that buy ship just for the cards, well, there goes those ship sales. And I'm sure the retailers would love ANOTHER SKU to try and find shelf space for.

And I have to laugh at you comparing something to help water conservation to a luxury product.

And that's why the Core and Falcon have slimmer margins than other X-wing products. Those that want the cards, but don't buy the ships, still won't buy the ships. And those that buy ship just for the cards, well, there goes those ship sales. And I'm sure the retailers would love ANOTHER SKU to try and find shelf space for.

And I have to laugh at you comparing something to help water conservation to a luxury product.

I know it was a stretch. It's still a valid argument that operating a business at "maximum profit" should be the only goal. I'm a bit appalled by that philosophy because there are times when taking a lesser profit should pay so much more in unrealized gains. I guess an example of that can be many types of manufacturing where a "maximum profits" goal leads to loads of pollution and such yet operating at slightly lower profits could significantly reduced the pollution; it would be so nice if business could do thing like that without REQUIRING the government or some other overseer to force them to do it.

We do have statements from Christian Peterson that not all X-wing products have the same profit margin. Notably, the Core, which is pretty obvious, and the Falcon. So, they are willing to not take the same profit on every product.

The issue with the card expansion, is that it will cut into sales of ships, which they can charge more for. I don't think many would be happy with the actual price they would sell a card pack for.

It means that their valuing profits. I'm amazed, really, that you translated that to best when it's quite explicit to only be valuing one of many possible measurements.

And why wouldn't profits be the most important measure for a business?

Generally, do competitive tournaments allow you to have printed cards (i.e. not the actual upgrade, but a printed one on your squad list)?

For example, if I want Accuracy Corrector for my Imperial list, do I really have to buy multiple Star Vipers for a faction I don't play just to get the cards?

In the FFG X-WIng tournament rules I do see it stating that proxy cards are not allowed.

You do have to have the actual card not a print out. However, you don't have to buy the entire expansion to get the card. There are places where you can buy individual cards. Basic all they are stores which buy expansions whole sale and then break them down to singles. In this way they can actually make more off the expansion as a whole by charging a higher price for it's collective components but selling them to multiple buyers.

A rhetorical question, as you pointed out, and one you clearly asked in order to avoid answering my own. I find your continued silence on the matter every bit as satisfactory as it was before, so thank you.

I asked it rhetorically to show that you would not answer - which you have not. I don't draw any conclusions from that regarding your financial situation, only that you put the argument before the logic behind it.

So, where do you work? You obviously think that that information is relevant, so go ahead and share.

At Kmart, pushing shopping carts. That's all I was qualified for after 6 years in the military and earning my BA, and I can still buy things like an adult. Now would you care to respond with something more substantive? Your cop outs are rapidly becoming more sad than amusing.

It means that their valuing profits. I'm amazed, really, that you translated that to best when it's quite explicit to only be valuing one of many possible measurements.

Given that FFG is a for-profit company, and that you are playing a game manufactured by said for-profit company, if you value their game, you ought to value their profits.

If they made a decision to end support of X-Wing, it would be for one of two reasons: losing the license due to Lucasfilm/Disney's unilateral decision (remember the Star Wars CCG?), or not making a profit on the game.

If the difficulties of developing and supporting the game outweighed the effort of doing so, personally, for the designers, that might cause them to feel that they are not profiting on the game. I bet that the people running FFG in general and those managing the Star Wars IP games in particular are doing this partly for the love of games and of Star Wars; there are other, more lucrative professions available that have identical skill sets to those of the lead X-Wing designers, I am sure. People who develop a game as well-constructed and responsively supported as this will not have trouble finding other jobs if this opportunity were to end.

However, if the community of players as a whole were to display the ingratitude that is frequently represented on these forums, I would not be surprised to see FFG decide that, financial profit or not, they no longer wish to create this wonderful game for us.

If someone is unhappy with the rules as FFG has written them, please... by all means, go out and get your own license agreement with Disney/LFL and create your own game system, test it, package it, market it, and bring it to all the game stores. Please. I'd love to see it.

A rhetorical question, as you pointed out, and one you clearly asked in order to avoid answering my own. I find your continued silence on the matter every bit as satisfactory as it was before, so thank you.

I asked it rhetorically to show that you would not answer - which you have not. I don't draw any conclusions from that regarding your financial situation, only that you put the argument before the logic behind it.

So, where do you work? You obviously think that that information is relevant, so go ahead and share.

At Kmart, pushing shopping carts. That's all I was qualified for after 6 years in the military and earning my BA, and I can still buy things like an adult. Now would you care to respond with something more substantive? Your cop outs are rapidly becoming more sad than amusing.

So, where do you work? Or, are you admitting that that is an irrelevant question?

Could you two at least take it to PM? I would hate to see this thread closed due to your pissing contest.

Could you two at least take it to PM? I would hate to see this thread closed due to your pissing contest.

+1

Don't worry guys, with any luck it should all be over soon. He's abandoned every legitimate avenue of debate to pursue a solitary weak point (or what he perceives to be one, at any rate), going so far as to ignore two entire posts just to focus on his middle school argumentation strategy. Either the conversation is nearing its end, or the real trolling is about to begin. I'll cross my fingers and hope for the former.

@ iRapture:

It's okay, I get it. I wouldn't want everyone to know that I depend on my parents for toys either.