Generally, do competitive tournaments allow you to have printed cards (i.e. not the actual upgrade, but a printed one on your squad list)?

For example, if I want Accuracy Corrector for my Imperial list, do I really have to buy multiple Star Vipers for a faction I don't play just to get the cards?

In the FFG X-WIng tournament rules I do see it stating that proxy cards are not allowed.

Not cool in a competitive tourney.

Yes you need to have the actual FFG printed card for official events.

So store championships, regionals, nationals and worlds you'd need the actual card. For other tournaments it's going to be up to the TO.

The Starviper is amazing and comes with two Autothrusters. Worth the purchase!

There's only one accuracy corrector in the starviper. You're thinking of autothrusters

If you don't want to buy them, ask some friends that play (before the tournament) if you can borrow theirs. Most people I know are happy to loan cards out if they're not using them.

If you don't want to buy them, ask some friends that play (before the tournament) if you can borrow theirs. Most people I know are happy to loan cards out if they're not using them.

This.

We have no problems using proxies during casual nights and league nights, but when it's time for a tournament, we all use the real thing, lending when necessary.

Well I just ordered some single upgrade cards from eBay.

Some of them are stupid expensive, but oh well.

Not a hugh fan of FFG's way of handling upgrade cards, but I'm sure it sells them a hell of a lot of ships. Glad I'm single with no kids...

Ebay is a good way to go, that's how I got a lot of the astromechs that only come in the Transport. The really popular/limited ones are hard to come by that way though. I've never seen C-3PO or R2-D2 or Predator in stock on any of the stores.

Ask your TO. I am yet to attend a tournament (at three different stores) where anyone had a problem finding the lender card that they needed.

As an aside, there is no diffetence between borrowing a card and printing a copy. In both situations, the outcome is that you use a card that you don't. The only reason that people take issue with printing rather than borrowing is because FFG told them to.

As an aside, there is no diffetence between borrowing a card and printing a copy. In both situations, the outcome is that you use a card that you don't. The only reason that people take issue with printing rather than borrowing is because FFG told them to.

Your last sentence is accurate. People take issue with proxies because FFG made a rules document to outline an organized play format that we must all equally adhere to and it could be frustrating for someone to go out and spend some money on some Star Vipers to get a couple of specific upgrade cards, only to have someone else print it off the internet and have the TO "make an exception" and let them play in direct contradiction with said rules.

The difference is that proxies are expressly forbidden and legitimate cards are allowed, so yes, there is a difference.

Now, if we could remove our tinfoil hats for a moment, instead of playing to the "FFG cash grab" rant that could come so easily here, let's consider that maybe this rule is in there to ensure that all components used by all players are identical, and that somebody didn't show up to an event populated by less-savvy players and use a doctored copy of a card to allow them to get a little extra edge. Maybe they changed Predator to cost 2 points instead of 3, took out the phrase "spend a target lock" on ordnance, etc.

The same holds true for bases and rulers, where a barely noticeable alteration could yield an unfair advantage. That's why they allow for the potential use of aftermarket templates, under the provision that your opponent must also be allowed to use the same templates, so as to again, keep the field level.

The only determination that could effect an inequitable advantage would be someone new to the scene having a hard time getting the components they need because of FFG's reprint cycle. I'm always hearing about people trying to get their hands on Engine Upgrades from the Falcon, for instance.

To get back to the OP's query;

As you noticed, the tournament rules require you to use legitimate cards for your matches in tournaments, so obviously you have to have the actual cards to play them in a tournament. You could try and go the route of pleading for mercy from the organizers, but remember that you're making it unfair for the player that had to go and spend a bunch of money to get kitted out for the event when all he had to do was ask for someone to make an exception too.

If everyone did that, I'd imagine it would have an overall negative impact on sales, which, believe it or not, is how a company stays in business; they have to sell their product. If X-Wing sales were in the pits because we all proxied everything, the game wouldn't go on and the Organized Play aspect would only exist unofficially.

I hate to say this, but we're ultimately enjoying a luxury here, and we should treat it as such. When you see news of a new product line coming out under this Star Wars license, those "my poor wallet" posts aren't entirely there for comedy. Some of us, believe it or not, have to budget for these things, especially if we're planning to keep up with the Organized Play community. If that becomes too difficult or otherwise stressful, then it's time to invest in a new hobby that might be more affordable.

As a tabletop gamer, I love these games so much, but I can only afford to acquire a finite amount of materials in a given year, based on their costs. What helps is that we live in an age where a company like FFG will announce their product far enough in advance that you can start putting that money in the cookie jar in advance and try and budget for it.

Someone starting in X-Wing today, wanting to go into tournaments with real components could potentially be spending a lot of money in one shot to get all the things they need, which I appreciate is more difficult than being someone like myself who has been playing this since Day 1, so the overall cost of acquiring my collection has been broken up over a period of years at this point. If you're getting in now, you need to do some research and look at that competitive list on a budget, and slowly branch out from there.

Going with Heaver's Han out of the gate might be cost-prohibitive, as you'd be buying a Core Set, a Falcon, a Tantive, a TIE Defender, and some Z-95's just to get that going. That's a lot of money to pump out in one shot for one very specific list.

If your stressor is that you want to fly a specific list at this point and are lacking the cards, your options boil down thusly;

Bite the bullet and buy the ship packs that you need

Pay more than you should for the individual cards online

Network with people in the player community and borrow the necessary materials for the event

Show up at the event and hope someone will lend you the cards

Don't be the person that makes it awkward by showing up to the event and asking them to let you proxy some other stuff in.

As much as you feel that buying another Star Viper just for the Accuracy Corrector is too much money to spend, realize that in the Imperial Assault world, people are spending $10 just for another grey Imperial Officer deployment card, since they want to run 3 but only 2 come in the Core Set. Others just bought the second Core Set, which is a little bit more than $10. There are worse problems to have.

FFG isn't planning on doing separate card packs, but often times they will reprint the upgrade cards into other sets. For instance, you can get the Accuracy Corrector in the Imperial Raider when it comes out, and the upcoming Hound's Tooth will feature the Engine Upgrade card, which was previously only available in the Falcon pack. In the long run, patience, in the short run, see my points above.

Part of the trouble with printing cards for tournament play is that anyone can put whatever text they want on the card, and their opponent may not know any better. If you saw an opponent with a Gunner card and weren't familiar with it, would you know to question whether it could be used for secondary attacks or only for primary attacks?

Pro-tip: If you do decide to print cards, don't use the online images for "Fleet Officer" with phrasing "...within Range 1-2". The original text is different than what is in print now ("at Range 1-2" is much different than "within Range 1-2").

Now, if we could remove our tinfoil hats for a moment, instead of playing to the "FFG cash grab" rant that could come so easily here, let's consider that maybe this rule is in there to ensure that all components used by all players are identical, and that somebody didn't show up to an event populated by less-savvy players and use a doctored copy of a card to allow them to get a little extra edge. Maybe they changed Predator to cost 2 points instead of 3, took out the phrase "spend a target lock" on ordnance, etc.

Also, the argument that something should not be allowed because a player may cheat is very weak. The opportunity for cheating exists when rolling dice, when building a list, when moving ships, when placing/removing shield tokens, when arguing how a rule is applied, and in a number of other situations that arise during a game of X-Wing. It is assumed that players will follow the rules and not cheat. What makes the potential for cheating by modifying card text so likely or severe that the potential for that type of cheating justifies limiting play?

Finally, and most importantly, players at a tournament are expected to know the rules. Do you honestly believe that someone could make it through a tournament without someone noticing that they are not taking a stress token after the use push the limit? Aside from many players being familiar with all of the cards, FFG makes images of the cards available, so checking them is fast and easy. Also, how is a player trying to use predator as a one point upgrade any different than that player trying to use the old decloak rules?

You are really overstating the potential for cheating using printed cards. I really can't imagine it being an issue - especially because players who would not find a different way to cheat if they are that set on winning.

[R]emember that you're making it unfair for the player that had to go and spend a bunch of money to get kitted out for the event when all he had to do was ask for someone to make an exception too.

Someone spent the money in the case of a lent ship/upgrade, as opposed to noone in the case of a proxy/upgrade.

I mean is it really surprising that a business not undermine themselves? I mean does anyone find it shocking that FFG doesn't allow proxies? Organized Play exists to help FFG sell more product, they aren't going to allow proxies because that would undermine the purpose of Organized Play for them. This goes for pretty much any other game as well.

I'm confused as to how anyone doesn't see that as a reasonable position for a game company to take.

Wall of text...

+1

Come on. Be serious. First of all, nothing stops someone from making a high quality duplicate that includes the exact same modification you are suggesting and is indistinguishable from the standard card.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me here or not. That was my point; you bring this A-Grade fake card that looks exactly like the original, but for one small, but useful modification, like changing points costs, text, etc

Also, the argument that something should not be allowed because a player may cheat is very weak. The opportunity for cheating exists when rolling dice, when building a list, when moving ships, when placing/removing shield tokens, when arguing how a rule is applied, and in a number of other situations that arise during a game of X-Wing. It is assumed that players will follow the rules and not cheat. What makes the potential for cheating by modifying card text so likely or severe that the potential for that type of cheating justifies limiting play?

Finally, and most importantly, players at a tournament are expected to know the rules. Do you honestly believe that someone could make it through a tournament without someone noticing that they are not taking a stress token after the use push the limit? Aside from many players being familiar with all of the cards, FFG makes images of the cards available, so checking them is fast and easy. Also, how is a player trying to use predator as a one point upgrade any different than that player trying to use the old decloak rules?

The overarching point is that the rules explicitly state that you can't bring proxy cards in, so don't do it because then you would be cheating by way of going against the rules, even if your proxy was intended to be played legitimately in lieu of the actual regulation card. I think that's pretty cut and dry. The reason behind this is probably for business reasons first and foremost, as others have stated, but if we want to have some other "why's" behind it, for the sake of playing devil's advocate, my point about altering text/points costs would still be valid. I'm not saying that it would work on a high-level player, because they would catch it pretty quickly, but a (to quote myself) "less-savvy player" might not.

If you are assuming that players will follow the rules and not cheat, then why are we not in accord that bringing fraudulent cards is a bad move? As far as cheating by way of rolling dice, "accidentally" moving ships, etc, you have the Tournament Organizer on-site for that.

I don't think requiring people to play with the actual cards and ships is limiting for play at all in a way that matters. Yes, for someone who must have that Engine Upgrade (but can't find or afford a Falcon pack to make it happen) that would be limiting, but again, we're talking about a collectible luxury game here. There's going to be an ongoing cost that may be more or less expensive for the individual when you factor in their financial situation and whether that allows them to keep up and collect all the ships in multiples to have all the cards and ships needed for any given combination of lists.

For that last line about using 1-Point Predator being different from someone using the old Decloak rules, there isn't a difference in the strictest sense. The only practical difference could be that someone using the old Decloak rules might not be aware that there is a new FAQ. Perhaps they aren't aware that FFG regularly updates their FAQ, or that such a thing even exists. This could be an honest mistake, but one that would probably be quickly corrected by their opponent if that opponent is in the know.

A high-performing player would naturally check for a FAQ update before going to a tournament, just to be sure, and know this new rule and be ready to educate their opponent if they try to Decloak the old-school way. For example, I always keep a printed copy of the current FAQ with me when I go to tournaments, and even casual events. Questions inevitably arise, so it's helpful when people have the foresight to bring along The X-Wing Bible to squash any issues quickly.

You are really overstating the potential for cheating using printed cards. I really can't imagine it being an issue - especially because players who would not find a different way to cheat if they are that set on winning.

To clarify, that was merely a devil's advocate critical thinking exercise on why else that rule might be in place, and not some hard-coded belief that I have.

That is crap. The vast majority of players are fine with some borrowing the cards and ships that they play with, which results in a player that did not spend the money on the cards being able to use them. What is the result when a player prints cards that they do not own? That player that did not spend the money on the cards is able to use them? What is the difference? Besides, no one is being cheated. You are not entitled to you plastic ships and the cardboard that comes with them maintaing their value (just ask someone who purchased more than one phantom).

I never had a problem with people borrowing cards. The point is that the person who spent the cash elected that option to bring legitimate components to the table, and someone that borrowed their gear elected a different option to bring legitimate components to the table.

If Cash-Person wanted to raise a fuss with Borrowed-Person, then Cash-Person is probably going to look like a jerk, as Borrowed-Person is still adhering to the rules. The person that brings printed cards is strictly-speaking, cheating. Forget the economic impact on FFG and whether or not they doctored cards, it's just flat-out against the rules. The person that is being cheated in that exchange would be Proxy-Person's opponent. I realize this sounds like we're pulling out the torches and pitchforks over someone using a proxy card that is 100% intended to be used as the legitimate card, so "what's the difference?" but remember, the original post was asking if it was really necessary for them to buy extra Star Vipers to get the Accuracy Correctors they needed.

The answer in it's most reductive state is "no", but with the provision that they must still find a way to bring the real cards to the event in lieu of making the purchase themselves.

However you want to do it, people, when you go to the tournament, please just bring legitimate game components.

Besides, no one is being cheated.

FFG are. You are using unauthorised reproductions of their intellectual property. You were not told you could make these copies, and FFG have received no reimbursement for them.

I mean, come on, people; let's call this what it is. Making printed proxies of pilot and upgrade cards is technically copyright infringement, which is illegal in most places. You're just not breaking FFG's tournament rules by attempting to use these, you are breaking the law. That people at your local game night don't care, don't mind, and/or couldn't be bothered calling you out on it doesn't change that fact.

So, if you want to run a particular list at a tournament and do not have all the cards, you must choose one of several options:

1) Borrow from a friend.

2) Buy as singles, if possible.

3) Buy the expansions the cards come in.

4) Do without.

But you certainly cannot rock up with copies that are illegal in more ways than one, and expect to be allowed to play in an event FFG themselves have sanctioned and supported.

The most expensive up grade card can be had for like 60 bucks.. or even 45 if your lucky and get a tantive as a deal of the day. that said any other card is waaaay cheaper. Why proxy at all? just buy what you need. and if one thinks X-wing is too expensive then i would say one probably has other more important problems to worry about.. Also the problem with borrowing a card is that the person you want to borrow it from might be using it, particularly if its a popular card..Or they could just be a butt head and not let you borrow it..lol I for one would rent my excess cards for 15 bucks a day.. just saying..lol

You own the cards that you purchase from FFG - you did not purchase a license. Legally, I can make as many copies of my advanced sensors card as I want. So, if breaking the law is your concern, are you fine with people using duplicates of cards that they own?

Legally, I can make as many copies of my advanced sensors card as I want. So, if breaking the law is your concern, are you fine with people using duplicates of cards that they own?

Legally, it says "© & TM Lucasfilm Ltd. No part of this product may be used without specific written permission" on every X-Wing Miniatures product box, so unless you have specific written permission from Lucasfilm, no, you can't make copies.

You have to have the printed card from FFG. Now cards are traded sold on ebay individually and other stuff however still they are the FFG card. That being said you don not necessarily have to buy expansion pack the card is in let alone have the ship with the upgrade in their pack. But still it must come from FFG. So yes you can't have 3rd part cards but you do not need to show the proof of purchase in order to use the cards you have.

you do not need to show the proof of purchase in order to use the cards you have.

That'd be next level:

"okay, checking lists. everyone saved all their little Proof of Purchase chits, right?"

t's just flat-out against the rules.

As was using mixed faction dials. There were pages and pages and pages of people making excuses for why that rule was appropriate, prattling on about nonsense like confusion and aesthetics. If you are in the mood for seeing what an authority can drive people to justify, go give them a read. Now, FFG acknowledged that the mixed faction dial rule did not have a meaningful impact on the game, and I am yet to see a thread complaining about have the reversal has negatively impacted their experience. The indignation of not have originals of each card is the same. It does not impact the gameplay and has a negligible impact on players experience (which is probably outweighed by the freedom that it would bring to list building). The only difference is that FFG will not change their position because it is a much stronger force in driving sales.

Mixed faction dials have NEVER been against the rules. There was a question about how they might work and someone gave an opinion which many ran with as being 'official' but it never actually was.

t's just flat-out against the rules.

As was using mixed faction dials. There were pages and pages and pages of people making excuses for why that rule was appropriate, prattling on about nonsense like confusion and aesthetics. If you are in the mood for seeing what an authority can drive people to justify, go give them a read. Now, FFG acknowledged that the mixed faction dial rule did not have a meaningful impact on the game, and I am yet to see a thread complaining about have the reversal has negatively impacted their experience. The indignation of not have originals of each card is the same. It does not impact the gameplay and has a negligible impact on players experience (which is probably outweighed by the freedom that it would bring to list building). The only difference is that FFG will not change their position because it is a much stronger force in driving sales.

Mixed faction dials have NEVER been against the rules. There was a question about how they might work and someone gave an opinion which many ran with as being 'official' but it never actually was.

At first it was stated that the dials faction had to match but before Wave 7 was released it was stated that dials only had to match the ship.