How about they just FAQ it to add one hull? No purchase necessary, no replacing droids, no titles.

Developers have stated in the past that that is a road they are unwilling to go down

Because it doesn't help sell another SKU? Of course not. If the Xwing is so broken and they're so concerned about its absence in competitive play they'd have FAQed it ASAP for tournaments instead of upselling the "fix."

Because changing the rules in errata is a god aweful, cludgy, stupid way to fix a game that leads to bloated, confusing, unbalanced, incomprehensible rule sets that require a whole new edition of the game and a reprinting of everything released for it to bring them back into comprehensibility.

Ask an old school star fleet battles player what they think of errata. Ask a Warhammer player how well errata works to fix balance issues

Errata is to be used only as an absolute last resort and to fix typos.

Looks like the upcoming Kihraxz, the scum X-Wing, will share the same problem as the X-Wing.

But there is an Illict slot - so this may give the 'boost' this ship needed to be competitive!?

The Kihraxz had a dial that isn't public yet and a base cost that isn't public yet. Drawing conclusions about its cost-effectiveness on the basis of a single pilot card lies somewhere on the spectrum between "ill-advised" and "comically foolish".

Yes, this would be me. Any further questions?

The X-Wing's "problems" stem from the fact that it's an average ship with baseline performance. I don't see a problem with this, however if you wanted to buff it without going overboard, give it a title that gives it free Experimental Interface an extra EPT slot. That way you can take Expert Handling and can use EI to proc it.

Whiners, that's why.

Looks like the upcoming Kihraxz, the scum X-Wing, will share the same problem as the X-Wing.

But there is an Illict slot - so this may give the 'boost' this ship needed to be competitive!?

We also don't know what it's dial is. It better be different from the X-Wing thats all I have to say.

The X-Wing's "problems" stem from the fact that it's an average ship with baseline performance. I don't see a problem with this, however if you wanted to buff it without going overboard, give it a title that gives it free Experimental Interface an extra EPT slot. That way you can take Expert Handling and can use EI to proc it.

As to being excited that such a "weak" ship will (hopefully) be fixed by a card included in a future release? If GW did that we'd cry foul (and I'm a ten year GW veteran with formally codex-legal armies who have been removed from recent codex releases).

10 pages, let's keep it going!

Bombers are better than they look, and cheaply increasing their payloads could mean you'll see lists dropping multiple proximity mines directly onto your ships, killing them before they reveal dials. As someone earlier made a Jurassic park bit, perhaps learn a little respect.

I'd like to have the same optimism, but frankly Prox mines can whiff and on average result in one or two hits. I love them but I use them for board control, placing them between obstacles on the board. Giving me more mines is fab, but more missiles means more work to get those shots away and also translates to higher threat. Maybe that's what FFG intended: bombers with EO pull more aggro. Still, a pretty lousy fix.

Depending on the target, one or two hits can be unacceptable (for the defender), particularly when your opponent can't directly do anything to stop you.

Hypothetical squad: 4x Scimitar squadrons with proximity mines, some 4-point missile or torp, and extra ordnance. In our current meta, (or at least around the release of phantoms) I could see a squad like this being somewhat competitive. Against the high PS arc dodgy ships that may also rely on high agility, proximity mines are a larger threat than anything else for the cost. The alpha strike of the torps could tip the match in their favor against more jousty ships, though the bombers might not have enough longevity. The numbers and hard hitting nature would probably let them contend with turret ships, too. Without extra ordnance, they'd have half the stamina at the same cost.

Since when its the dial that suck? X-Wings dial is fine.

They would need like a barrel roll action - and thats it.

The X-Wing's "problems" stem from the fact that it's an average ship with baseline performance. I don't see a problem with this, however if you wanted to buff it without going overboard, give it a title that gives it free Experimental Interface an extra EPT slot. That way you can take Expert Handling and can use EI to proc it.

Yeah, I'd love to take two stress to do a single Barrel Roll.

Why not just a refit card that reduces it's cost by two points?

cos Refits:

1) are boring

2) don't make the ship any better, just cheaper

3) add an opportunity cost to whatever is being filled.

Why not just a refit card that reduces it's cost by two points?

Same reason they won't give it a system slot, the designers have said that they don't want to duplicate fixes like that.

The X-Wing's "problems" stem from the fact that it's an average ship with baseline performance. I don't see a problem with this, however if you wanted to buff it without going overboard, give it a title that gives it free Experimental Interface an extra EPT slot. That way you can take Expert Handling and can use EI to proc it.

I think this is the issue. The X Wing in the fluff was not an 'average' ship. Its performance and overall package was remarkable for what it was. Nearly as fast and nearly as manoeuverable as a TIE Fighter with much better protection and firepower, a hyperdrive, coffee machine and built in massage chair for those long hyperspace journeys (totally legit I researched it). It was remarkable for what it combined in one package. It was anything BUT average. It became the baseline ship of the rebel alliance for precisely that reason. That and the fact that the design team stole the documents and gave them to the rebels... Maybe that had something to do with it.

The X WIng is symbolic of everything that the rebels stood for because of its association with the movies and the whole franchise. As such the X Wing for many people on this board (and SW fans in general) is Star Wars. Its also the ship the game is named after.

That said whether you believe it or not, the heart of this matter is that the X Wing doesn't carry anything like this 'weight' in the game. Its lackluster for its points. Not awful, but as has been stated the B Wing, which should fill a different fleet role, steals the X Wings thunder in just about every respect. More hull, same firepower, similar dial with some key advantages. Better action bar and far better customization options. All this for only one point more.

Mathwing puts the X at about 2 points (1.5 but you dont have half points) below its ideal position. Making the X Wing about 2 points better is a tricky improvement to balance. Im sure FFG will do a great job. But it doesnt stop us having fun talking about it in the meantime.

cos Refits:

1) are boring

2) don't make the ship any better, just cheaper

3) add an opportunity cost to whatever is being filled.

Kind of agree, but a boring fix which makes the X Wing worth its points, or (somehow) reduces its points to where they need to be, is still a good fix. I don't think anyone would complain too much if the Rookie X became 19 points and the others were reduced by the same amount without changing their stats or abilities. The hardest part about all of this I think is figuring out how to boost the X Wing by about 2 points in balance with all the other stuff in the game.

The X-Wing's "problems" stem from the fact that it's an average ship with baseline performance. I don't see a problem with this, however if you wanted to buff it without going overboard, give it a title that gives it free Experimental Interface an extra EPT slot. That way you can take Expert Handling and can use EI to proc it.

I think this is the issue. The X Wing in the fluff was not an 'average' ship.

The Xwing, as of 'Return of the Jedi', is the average fighter.

Then we have a different definition of "average" here. The Xwing is smack in the middle of the Ywing and Awing for speed and maneuverablity. It's between the Awing and Bwing for firepower. Its New Republic replacement, the Ewing, should be better in almost every way. The TIE/D was meant to deal with it.

The Xwing, as of 'Return of the Jedi', is the average fighter.

The X-wing was not an 'average' ship at all in the fluff. It replaces the Y-wing and Z-95 as the main space superiority fighter. The B-wing is a bomber, and the A-wing is a Skirmisher/Interceptor.

In the game called X-wing, the 'X-wing' is replaced by the Y-wing, the Z-95, the B-wing and the A-wing.

The X-Wing's "problems" stem from the fact that it's an average ship with baseline performance. I don't see a problem with this, however if you wanted to buff it without going overboard, give it a title that gives it free Experimental Interface an extra EPT slot. That way you can take Expert Handling and can use EI to proc it.

I think this is the issue. The X Wing in the fluff was not an 'average' ship. Its performance and overall package was remarkable for what it was.

For my money, gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fluff every time. No exceptions. Fluff is a great source of inspiration but it is always an acceptable loss if need be.

In the case of the X-wing, its problems (no quotation marks here, they are very real) is not that its a "baseline" ship, it's that it's just incredibly underwhelming in every facet apart from the innate 3 offense and dial.

A jack-of-all-trades/base-line is not a bad thing to be, problem is the X-wing is not. It can't reposition at all on its own merits, which mark it very strictly as a jouster. Thus marked, its inefficient stats for its cost seal its fate. It does not have base-line capabilities, it has sub-par capabilities without named pilots adding very excellent abilities.

Once again, it is the B-wing that occupies the spot of a good base-line, average ship. It has decent efficiency and access to actions, and as a huge added benefit it can be greatly customizable.

Then we have a different definition of "average" here. The Xwing is smack in the middle of the Ywing and Awing for speed and maneuverablity. It's between the Awing and Bwing for firepower. Its New Republic replacement, the Ewing, should be better in almost every way. The TIE/D was meant to deal with it.

The Xwing, as of 'Return of the Jedi', is the average fighter.

The X-wing was not an 'average' ship at all in the fluff. It replaces the Y-wing and Z-95 as the main space superiority fighter. The B-wing is a bomber, and the A-wing is a Skirmisher/Interceptor.

In the game called X-wing, the 'X-wing' is replaced by the Y-wing, the Z-95, the B-wing and the A-wing.

11 pages soon.

Jesus Christ, can you not just make up what other people say, then respond to that Strawman literally every time anyone makes a point here?

But let's clarify: If you read carefully, I didn't say I wanted the X-wing 'the most powerful ship' in the game. I said that in a game called X-WING, I'd want to see some X-WINGS.

Then play them. I don't have a problem with Xwings and that's been my opinion for 10 pages now.

Then play them. I don't have a problem with Xwings and that's been my opinion for 10 pages now.

That's not a particularly helpful position though.

1.) Nobody is saying that the X-Wing can't be played. It is obviously a matter of preference.

2.) This said, if you prefer to build efficient lists with a better chance of winning the B is (generally) a better choice. It is tougher, more versatile, and just as powerful.

3.) The desire to balance it to the B is not a matter of fluff. It's a question of game design. A perfectly balanced game can still be played in a fluffy manner, but the reverse is not always true. Your earlier distinction between tournament "specialized" and casual "general" ships is actually bad game design. Saying that ships can't be played competitively, but are fine casually is the same as saying that casual fans don't care about winning--they just want to play with toy ships. This is, again, perfectly valid. But it is not the only valid view and it ultimately hurts the game. Again, look at GW.

This thread wasn't started by someone to help the players who don't play their Xwings anymore, it was started by someone who doesn't feel they're weak, neither do I.

Feel free to think that.

You're just arguing against established facts.