Well to be fair I thought there's more Xwing pilots than any other, right?

More named pilots, yes. Current total is 8 named pilots, 2 generic. However most pilot options overall goes to the Tie interceptor (11 total, 7 named, 4 generic).

You know what I wanted orginally for the Xwing? An electronic warfare version like the EA-18g Growler version of the F-18. The Ewing can take systems so I want to use for that role now.

T-65R [TORPEDO] (X-Wing only) {-1}

The ship’s upgrade bar gains the System Upgrade icon.

Fluff: the T-65R was the recon variant of the X-wing; it replaced the torpedo bay with an electronics suite (per the X-wing books).

The inability to reposition really kicks the X in the teeth for me. Engine Upgrade really helps but doesn't make it any more cost efficient than it is.

I've been thinking about a title fix along the lines of "Title - T65-B. 1pt - when performing a green manouver you may perform a boost action"

I dare say someone could improve the wording and the cost may not be right as I'm going on nothing more than intuition. It's basically a pared down engine upgrade to reflect the X wing having good manouver ability at lower speeds. It would put the Rookie at 22 pts like the much more popular Blue Squadron. I don't think the Rookie with this title and an astromech would be better than a blue with Advanced sensors or FCS but it would be a interesting choice between the two where as now I almost always go with the generic B over an X.

It's a small boost to e named pilots but not game changing with the green manouver restriction.

A slight repositioning ability such as boost or barrel roll would allow the X Wing flexibility and improve its decent but limited dial. However you could achieve practically the same thing by giving a title which discounts a single upgrade card by 3 points say. This would give the X Wing +1 free hull or +1 shield or alternatively Boost for a single point.

The problem with the X Wing is that it has so many possibilities. Its all rounder status means that many of the suggested improvements are viable in terms of how we think of the X Wing.

Maybe a fix that allows freedom to customise your X Wing to a role by discounting upgrades is the simplest way.

The best and easiest fix I've ever heard of for the X-wing was suggested by my buddy:

When doing a maneuver (season to taste: e.g., maybe just a green or white maneuver; whatever) you can place the X-wing normally (center-template), or to the left or right (flush with the template, but the corner of the base tucked against the left or right nub).

You'd declare this before you measured the maneuver, and failure to declare would just mean "center," as currently normal.

This would allow ... well, not re-positioning, but positioning outside the normal limits for a maneuver. It's unique, it's easy to do, and it'd be easy to implement. (It would require only a single rules card. It wouldn't even be errata, because it would simply be a new rule.)

If you want a thematic image, consider those shots of WWII fighters who dip a wing, drifting quickly to one side of straight, then raise the wing to even out again.

How bout just do what they did with the advanced and sensor slots being cheaper and make astromechs cheaper?

Opportunity cost, same principle as chaardan. You HAVE to take an astromech rather than anything else or get stuck with a overcosted basic X Wing. Fine, it might be fluffy, but there isnt an astromech out there that could solve the issue with all X Wings. Even a basic R2 (about as close to a generic solution as you are going to get) only improves the dial, it doesnt improve action efficiency, durability, repositionability (is not a word) or any of the other issues that have been raised.

If you look at adding more droid upgrade choices then you would need a REALLY good droid upgrade to fix the X and therein lies the problem. A generic droid wouldnt be that good for approximately 2 points (which seems to be the consensus from mathwing of what the X needs a boost by). Also there is the question of how you add what the X eventually gets/needs.

I dont buy any of the arguments that simply adding a droid would make the X wing tougher, or somehow grant it the barrel roll action (how does a droid do either of these things?). Droids can add tricks of versatility and can improve the basics of an fighter - as they do in the canon - assisting with systems, power and engine management etc. They dont add capabilities by themselves. Your fighter is manoeuverable enough to barrel roll or it isnt, for example.

True however droids like r7t1 really help, you get a boost which the xwing doesn't have natively and a target lock, with the proposed droid cost reduction you would get these for free. I agree there are a lack of droids that help the xwing and I do think if they were to reduce the cost of droids they would also give us new droids to capitalize on this like they did with the advanced targeting computer and the tie advanced.

More I think about it the more I like the three point discount on modifications.

Now if you wanna go nutso, how 'bout no "minimum of zero" qualifier? Munitions failsafe just became a -2 point upgrade!

And in Xwing Miniatures the data FFG cares about are sales.

No that's not true. Alex Davis said that they plan on looking at the X-Wing because it's not performing as well as they'd like in competitive events.

The fact is, that the X-Wing is going to get a bump of some sort, we just don't know when or what.

after the supposed bomber fix, i won't hold my breath

And in Xwing Miniatures the data FFG cares about are sales.

No that's not true. Alex Davis said that they plan on looking at the X-Wing because it's not performing as well as they'd like in competitive events.

The fact is, that the X-Wing is going to get a bump of some sort, we just don't know when or what.

after the supposed bomber fix, i won't hold my breath

So you've had Extra Munitions on the table a few times, so that you have some practical experience with it and a good idea of what it can and can't accomplish?

Interesting read, this thread. I want to say two things, and I hope they are positive contributions to the conversation.

1) Post-maneuver adjustments, like barrel roll and boost. Not a fan. I don't think everything in the game needs them, and I'm a little sad that so many ships have them. It's part of what made the named phantom such terrors. No matter how good you maneuver they could get out of your arc. I think the ultimate result is a PS war again (or turrets) and the little Rookie Pilots will still see no play. Of course, I could be totally wrong (it happens a lot ).

2) Competitive play. Up until Store Championships I was big into following the tournament scene and discussing the 'meta'. Then I realized that I just don't have time for all those events this year, and I began to question whether I should spend so much of my time training and practicing. Then I attended the FFG panel at Star Wars Celebration. The FFG representatives (including the vice-president) were very excited about their games, and especially the chance to delve into the exciting Star Wars galaxy. But what struck me the most was that they described their games and then added, "It also has support for competitive play." The competitive play seems to be secondary to getting awesome, thematic Star Wars stuff on the table.

So the X-wing isn't competitive right now. Does it need a fix? No. If nobody ever played X-wings in tournaments this game would keep on rolling. Would we like to see more X-wings in tournaments? Of course! As stated several times, it is the ship this whole game is named after. And I think we're all aware that the designers understand this is an issue. If/when they release a "fix" I will welcome it with open arms. Until then, I'll fly X-wings when I feel like it (but probably not at tournaments).

I've generally thought that the X should be fixed via

And in Xwing Miniatures the data FFG cares about are sales.

No that's not true. Alex Davis said that they plan on looking at the X-Wing because it's not performing as well as they'd like in competitive events.
The fact is, that the X-Wing is going to get a bump of some sort, we just don't know when or what.

after the supposed bomber fix, i won't hold my breath

So you've had Extra Munitions on the table a few times, so that you have some practical experience with it and a good idea of what it can and can't accomplish?

Also ignoring that Extra Munitions is obviously designed to fix the issues with stacking ordnance on a single ship, not necessarily the 'ordnance fix' in of itself?

Honestly, I've thought about this a lot and have come to believe that the main issue with the X is that, in general, the astromech slot is underwhelming. R2s are cool, but Xwings don't usually run stress heavy (and PTL isn't all that good on them without MORE upgrade stacking). R2-D2, R3-, and a few others are good, but the vast majority are a bit meh or flat out junk. With solid, cheap upgrade options there, I think you breathe more life into not only the X, but the E. In particular, more "do stuff on green" effects would scale between the X, Y, and E effectively.

EDIT:

Since there still seems to be a bit of disagreement over if the X is bad at all, I'll throw in my two cents:

First and foremost, the B as implemented fills the same niche as the X, but better. The X has some faster maneuvers but by and large those maneuvers are not the most valuable and having a bit of extra speed in this game isn't all that amazing. Really, extra speed and maneuverability is best represented with boost and barrel roll and NOT the dial. Which brings up the second point - the X is disgustingly vanilla in its lack of tricks. All other ships, with the exception of the Z95 and arguably the shuttle, have a reposition option, turret, additional arcs, or some other "killer app." In the case of the Z95, the vanilla is like that in a Nilla wafer; nothing special, but you aren't complaining.

The X is like taking a shot of vanilla extract.

Personally I'd rather they buff bombers before the Xwing.

Then you are luck sir. Perhaps you have not heard of a new thing called Wave 7 and Extra Munitions?

Personally I'd rather they buff bombers before the Xwing.

Then you are luck sir. Perhaps you have not heard of a new thing called Wave 7 and Extra Munitions?

Honestly, I've thought about this a lot and have come to believe that the main issue with the X is that, in general, the astromech slot is underwhelming. R2s are cool, but Xwings don't usually run stress heavy (and PTL isn't all that good on them without MORE upgrade stacking). R2-D2, R3-, and a few others are good, but the vast majority are a bit meh or flat out junk. With solid, cheap upgrade options there, I think you breathe more life into not only the X, but the E. In particular, more "do stuff on green" effects would scale between the X, Y, and E effectively.

EDIT:

Since there still seems to be a bit of disagreement over if the X is bad at all, I'll throw in my two cents:

First and foremost, the B as implemented fills the same niche as the X, but better. The X has some faster maneuvers but by and large those maneuvers are not the most valuable and having a bit of extra speed in this game isn't all that amazing. Really, extra speed and maneuverability is best represented with boost and barrel roll and NOT the dial. Which brings up the second point - the X is disgustingly vanilla in its lack of tricks. All other ships, with the exception of the Z95 and arguably the shuttle, have a reposition option, turret, additional arcs, or some other "killer app." In the case of the Z95, the vanilla is like that in a Nilla wafer; nothing special, but you aren't complaining.

The X is like taking a shot of vanilla extract.

Exactly this, I think a droid cost reduction would be awesome however they definitely need better droids. I like the r7t1 as well for extra actions but it is still not very effective and yet it's still one of the better droids to use. The rest are just useless. I also agree if they solve the droid problem it will help/fix both the xwing and Ewing.

How about they just FAQ it to add one hull? No purchase necessary, no replacing droids, no titles.

How about they just FAQ it to add one hull? No purchase necessary, no replacing droids, no titles.

Developers have stated in the past that that is a road they are unwilling to go down

Looks like the upcoming Kihraxz, the scum X-Wing, will share the same problem as the X-Wing.

But there is an Illict slot - so this may give the 'boost' this ship needed to be competitive!?

Looks like the upcoming Kihraxz, the scum X-Wing, will share the same problem as the X-Wing.

But there is an Illict slot - so this may give the 'boost' this ship needed to be competitive!?

Ya I have a feeling even with the illicit upgrades it won't be enough. 1 shield against mangler cannons is gonna be tough. Unless the dial is better.

You know what's funny? I actually - despite defending the lowly Xwing all afternoon here - think just the opposite. The only Xwings I actually play anymore are the Rookie, Red, Wedge, Wes, and Biggs. The other pilot abilities are just too situational for my tastes and reflect the evolution of the game mostly. The same is true for other ships in my experience so I don't really chalk it up as an Xwing problem but more attributable to overall growth.

'Only' 5 pilots are good. Darn.

Wait! Somone actually plays rookies and reds! I don't have a reaction to this that isn't going to get me in trouble. Still this is a stunning turn of events. In the rebel arsenal there are so many better options that either of those ships. Consider, green squadron a wing with push, cracken with vi or swarm tactics, a y wing with r3a2 or auto blaster turret. Finding the extra point for a b wing, finding the extra 2 points for a hog, a 21 point initiative bid, finding the point for a b wing. And those are just what I've got off the top of my head.

Biggs is still good, wedge breaks my heart because I want to run him but outside of silly lists theres always better options. Wes is nifty in those gimmicky opportunist lists but I haven't seen them succeed competitively.

Looks like the upcoming Kihraxz, the scum X-Wing, will share the same problem as the X-Wing.

But there is an Illict slot - so this may give the 'boost' this ship needed to be competitive!?

The Kihraxz had a dial that isn't public yet and a base cost that isn't public yet. Drawing conclusions about its cost-effectiveness on the basis of a single pilot card lies somewhere on the spectrum between "ill-advised" and "comically foolish".

Wait! Somone actually plays rookies and reds! I don't have a reaction to this that isn't going to get me in trouble

How about they just FAQ it to add one hull? No purchase necessary, no replacing droids, no titles.

Developers have stated in the past that that is a road they are unwilling to go down

I dont buy any of the arguments that simply adding a droid would make the X wing tougher, or somehow grant it the barrel roll action (how does a droid do either of these things?). Droids can add tricks of versatility and can improve the basics of an fighter - as they do in the canon - assisting with systems, power and engine management etc. They dont add capabilities by themselves. Your fighter is manoeuverable enough to barrel roll or it isnt, for example.

R7-T1 effectively adds boost to the X-wing, so the concept has precedent.

"Effective" is just about the last word I'd use to describe R7-T1.

Because it doesn't help sell another SKU? Of course not. If the Xwing is so broken and they're so concerned about its absence in competitive play they'd have FAQed it ASAP for tournaments instead of upselling the "fix."

Because they can't edit every card in the circulation, which would mean there are then two versions of the X-wing cards going around. Despite what gets said on this forums, they don't have to package fixes to make things sell. It's why they can't change point costs: someone who makes a list based on their earlier cards could easily end up making an illegal list.

FFG itself has a policy about avoiding errata wherever possible. Every card errata there is is just a clarification of its intented mechanic. They have only ever errataed one card beyond what could be interpreted anyway from the previous phrasing and that's Daredevil. Why? Because Daredevil didn't actually work as originally phrased: because of the way the maneuver phrase is structured it wouldn't actually give a stress token.

We live in a world where so many big companies put profit before ethics in terrible, terrible ways that we assume every company is guilty of the same thing. Doesn't that go against one of our most basic principles: innocent until proven guilty? Not every move that's not directly and blatantly altruistic is a sinister cash grab.

How about they just FAQ it to add one hull? No purchase necessary, no replacing droids, no titles.

Developers have stated in the past that that is a road they are unwilling to go down

Because it doesn't help sell another SKU? Of course not. If the Xwing is so broken and they're so concerned about its absence in competitive play they'd have FAQed it ASAP for tournaments instead of upselling the "fix."

That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is that the devs love this game and want it to be awesome. They are concerned that the X-Wing is less awesome than it should be. So they are a bit concerned. But changing card text is the nuclear option for these developers. So they don't want to do it. At all.

The only time we have ever seen changed to card text is a) to tweak rules or b) to make their text more in line with what they had intended the effect of a card to be.

There is an enormous difference between those changes and changing the printed values of a unit on a card.

The other issue is the subtlety of the X-Wing's design problem. It's not a huge and glaring issue. It's 1.5% of your list, per X-Wing. On other ships, certain upgrades at their listed prices will make those problems go away. On the X-Wing, upgrades tend to _exacerbate_ the problem. That's an amazing thing. That's hard to solve. I'm not going to fault FFG for being cautious.

Bombers are better than they look, and cheaply increasing their payloads could mean you'll see lists dropping multiple proximity mines directly onto your ships, killing them before they reveal dials. As someone earlier made a Jurassic park bit, perhaps learn a little respect.

I'd like to have the same optimism, but frankly Prox mines can whiff and on average result in one or two hits. I love them but I use them for board control, placing them between obstacles on the board. Giving me more mines is fab, but more missiles means more work to get those shots away and also translates to higher threat. Maybe that's what FFG intended: bombers with EO pull more aggro. Still, a pretty lousy fix.