I dont buy any of the arguments that simply adding a droid would make the X wing tougher, or somehow grant it the barrel roll action (how does a droid do either of these things?). Droids can add tricks of versatility and can improve the basics of an fighter - as they do in the canon - assisting with systems, power and engine management etc. They dont add capabilities by themselves. Your fighter is manoeuverable enough to barrel roll or it isnt, for example.

It enhances the plasma coils.

And so we're clear so you understand my personality: I'm rarely the guy at the game store lamenting how something is underpowered and mostly the guy poking fun at his own skill. If I lose with a list using an Xwing I'll blame my own play before I blame a ship.

So you're also clear that your interlocutors in this thread aren't people whining about how they can't win with the X-wing and want to blame it on something other than their own skill.

Outsourcing blame. That's what dice are for.

the problem also with X-wing fix via a new droid, specifically, is that you have all these lovely older models of astromech going unused...(plus pain in the ass to balance with the Y and E without a slapshod X-wing only). Granted there are some truly awful mechs out there (if it has a dice rolling requirement...a green one at that...) but there is a greater number of useful ones.

Imo, the mechs are quite fine, it's just that the ship in question offers so little potential for those droids to bring out.

Luke's so far been the undisputed zen master of the astromech for me, paling around with R2-D2, R5-P9, and R3-A2

Tarn loves him some R7 and Biggs lasts another turn versus HLCs with R4-D6

the rest??? don't see a reason when they just go kaboomy

I'm cocky enough to think I might be able to do it against a brand new player that built their own 100 point list without ever playing a single game. The problem would be actually bringing all those conditions together. It would be pretty rare to have 6 HWKs and a brand new player with their own list together in the same room.

Hmm... maybe not. I don't know, but it would be fun to try.

Beware the unsuspecting poor schlepp who walks into Guardian Games the next time you have 6 HWKs with you.

Yeah that's the thing I already regret the one HWK I bought when it came out, I'm definitely never buying 5 more. If somebody ever wanted to set this up though, I'd be a willing participant.

And so we're clear so you understand my personality: I'm rarely the guy at the game store lamenting how something is underpowered and mostly the guy poking fun at his own skill. If I lose with a list using an Xwing I'll blame my own play before I blame a ship.

List building is also a skill, and knowing when a ship is inadequate compared to other potential choices for your list is part of that skill. You're probably doing yourself a disservice in your games by pretending the X-Wing is better than it actually is.

No, I mostly have List ADD. I rarely play the same list twice, I get bored quick. It's why none of my Warhammer armies is fully painted.

If the forum says a ship "needs a boost" I'll take it with a pinch of salt. If FFG says it though...

No, I mostly have List ADD. I rarely play the same list twice, I get bored quick. It's why none of my Warhammer armies is fully painted.

I'm the same way. In fact I don't think I've played the same exact list twice in a row ever.

If the forum says a ship "needs a boost" I'll take it with a pinch of salt. If FFG says it though...

Mmmmm, good; very good.

Only listening to the proper authority, regardless of what the denizens have to say, is an ideal trait of a TIE Pilot. We may promote you!

R1 Flight Computer Droid

Upgrade Type: Astromech

Cost: -2

This upgrade reduces ship cost. When performing any maneuver that would generate a stress token, instead assign two stress tokens to the ship instead of one.

I like all of this except for the R1. R1 droids are 2m tall, capital ship astros. They absolutely won't fit in an X-Wing. R3's could work.

Eh, fair enough. I was thinking number sequence more than lore - it's supposed to be an inferior model to the R2.

I used to have list ADD too, for a long time, when I first started the only list I played more than once was XXXX, although I played the 4 shields version instead of the strictly better Wedge+Biggs+Rookies version.

Now I am one of the lucky players that has found a list that I really enjoy flying and am always learning something new from ever time I fly it, although I went through a lot of variations and different versions before I finally settled.

If the forum says a ship "needs a boost" I'll take it with a pinch of salt. If FFG says it though...

Mmmmm, good; very good.

Only listening to the proper authority, regardless of what the denizens have to say, is an ideal trait of a TIE Pilot. We may promote you!

*looks for handbook of approved Imperial responses to praise from a superior*

Aagahahaagh....

Wait, that's the one you do if Lord Vader holds his hand out funny...

I dont buy any of the arguments that simply adding a droid would make the X wing tougher, or somehow grant it the barrel roll action (how does a droid do either of these things?). Droids can add tricks of versatility and can improve the basics of an fighter - as they do in the canon - assisting with systems, power and engine management etc. They dont add capabilities by themselves. Your fighter is manoeuverable enough to barrel roll or it isnt, for example.

It enhances the plasma coils.

There is the T-65D-A1 model of X-Wing. Supposedly, last of the T-65s, it replaced the R2 unit entirely with a more advanced flight computer. Kind of like a service refit to the existing models, new and improved electronics, lighter as a result, no more astromech slot, etc...

I could see that as an "Astromech upgrade", then, in the game - "T-65D-A1" as an upgrade that sits in the astromech slot, adds the 'boost' action...it's an idea. (Especially if it's a droid that adds the 'boost' action - opening up the ships that can take it to equip autothrusters as a mod).

Only issue with that is that...well, it's really the generic X-Wings, Y-Wings, and E-Wings that are having issue. The higher-skill NAMED pilots are actually nearly all doing okay for their price. And an upgrade that adds maneuvering capability - boost, barrel roll, whatever - disproportionately benefits higher-skill pilots (where these fighters are doing alright) vs the lower-skill pilots (where these fighters are currently having a hard time).

So...not necessarily a great option.

For their points, X-wings tend to have better pilot abilities. But for generics, B-wings are arguably the best deal in the game. 22 points for 8 HP, 3 attack, barrel roll and TL...can't really beat that. Stat-wise, the only better deal is perhaps the Lambda(dat dial doe)

For their points, X-wings tend to have better pilot abilities. But for generics, B-wings are arguably the best deal in the game. 22 points for 8 HP, 3 attack, barrel roll and TL...can't really beat that. Stat-wise, the only better deal is perhaps the Lambda(dat dial doe)

going by juggler's calculations, you can find better stats for the points

the Tie Fighter qualifies (ditto Z-95)

unlike the X-wing, though, even the generic B can bring utility beyond its already solid statline

I dont buy any of the arguments that simply adding a droid would make the X wing tougher, or somehow grant it the barrel roll action (how does a droid do either of these things?). Droids can add tricks of versatility and can improve the basics of an fighter - as they do in the canon - assisting with systems, power and engine management etc. They dont add capabilities by themselves. Your fighter is manoeuverable enough to barrel roll or it isnt, for example.

R7-T1 effectively adds boost to the X-wing, so the concept has precedent.

For their points, X-wings tend to have better pilot abilities. But for generics, B-wings are arguably the best deal in the game. 22 points for 8 HP, 3 attack, barrel roll and TL...can't really beat that. Stat-wise, the only better deal is perhaps the Lambda(dat dial doe)

going by juggler's calculations, you can find better stats for the points

the Tie Fighter qualifies (ditto Z-95)

unlike the X-wing, though, even the generic B can bring utility beyond its already solid statline

Yea...there's certain intangibles that can't be mathematically accounted for. Barrel rolls, 2 k-turn, and 1-2-3-4-FIF frackin shields.

I find 2 Xs mix nicely with 2 Bs. Two generic Bs in front provide teeth and consistency while you can add two named Xs in the back for some higher PS and personal flavour. Bs with Xs behind can also K-turn nicely as a squadron if not blocked because of different dials. I also find it nice to have something besides Bs to chase faster ships because their dial is extremely slow.

So, with 44 points spent on the two Bs in front you have 56 points left for a couple of Xs which could be Wedge/SwarmTac plus Biggs, Luke/R5-P9 plus Tarn/R7, Hobbie/R3A2 plus Luke/VI, just to name a few options.

If the forum says a ship "needs a boost" I'll take it with a pinch of salt. If FFG says it though...

Does Alex Davy count?

The inability to reposition really kicks the X in the teeth for me. Engine Upgrade really helps but doesn't make it any more cost efficient than it is.

I've been thinking about a title fix along the lines of "Title - T65-B. 1pt - when performing a green manouver you may perform a boost action"

I dare say someone could improve the wording and the cost may not be right as I'm going on nothing more than intuition. It's basically a pared down engine upgrade to reflect the X wing having good manouver ability at lower speeds. It would put the Rookie at 22 pts like the much more popular Blue Squadron. I don't think the Rookie with this title and an astromech would be better than a blue with Advanced sensors or FCS but it would be a interesting choice between the two where as now I almost always go with the generic B over an X.

It's a small boost to e named pilots but not game changing with the green manouver restriction.

For their points, X-wings tend to have better pilot abilities. But for generics, B-wings are arguably the best deal in the game. 22 points for 8 HP, 3 attack, barrel roll and TL...can't really beat that. Stat-wise, the only better deal is perhaps the Lambda(dat dial doe)

You know what's funny? I actually - despite defending the lowly Xwing all afternoon here - think just the opposite. The only Xwings I actually play anymore are the Rookie, Red, Wedge, Wes, and Biggs. The other pilot abilities are just too situational for my tastes and reflect the evolution of the game mostly. The same is true for other ships in my experience so I don't really chalk it up as an Xwing problem but more attributable to overall growth.

Now since we're talking about fixing the Xwing for competitive play here's something sobering to consider: the more releases we see as the game grows the harder it will be to definitively balance the game for the very competitive players. That's just part of wargaming and it's alleviated partly by coordinated releases in successive waves where all factions get new toys at the same time but the system will never be perfect. Cards can and will be left behind as newer toys vie for your limited points.

I know that something will be released for the Xwing but depending on what it is I don't know that everyone is going to be happy. Consider the TIE/A upgrade being bundled with the Raider: a quality fix for the TIE/A in my opinion would've simply been to FAQ its attack value to three. I would gladly squeeze points to include that in a list over an Interceptor and I wouldn't have to order a Raider to do it. I expect whatever Xwing fix is eventually released to be marginal in value because the Bwing should always be the better assault ship, the Awing the better duelist, the Ywing the better bomber, and the Ewing just plain better in every way. And to the point I rarely play Ewings simply because I can often use cheaper Xwings and squeeze in a Z95.

Food for thought.

I've been thinking about a title fix along the lines of "Title - T65-B. 1pt - when performing a green manouver you may perform a boost action

I like that you added a qualifier to the free action and don't just allow it for free.

You know what's funny? I actually - despite defending the lowly Xwing all afternoon here - think just the opposite. The only Xwings I actually play anymore are the Rookie, Red, Wedge, Wes, and Biggs. The other pilot abilities are just too situational for my tastes and reflect the evolution of the game mostly. The same is true for other ships in my experience so I don't really chalk it up as an Xwing problem but more attributable to overall growth.

'Only' 5 pilots are good. Darn.

Well to be fair I thought there's more Xwing pilots than any other, right?

I dont buy any of the arguments that simply adding a droid would make the X wing tougher, or somehow grant it the barrel roll action (how does a droid do either of these things?). Droids can add tricks of versatility and can improve the basics of an fighter - as they do in the canon - assisting with systems, power and engine management etc. They dont add capabilities by themselves. Your fighter is manoeuverable enough to barrel roll or it isnt, for example.

R7-T1 effectively adds boost to the X-wing, so the concept has precedent.

Yup, and its highly situational, you must be in an enemy firing arc and range 1-2. Its doesnt simply grant the boost action with carte blanche. There is already an upgrade card which can do this and if you wanted the X Wing with boost simply give it a discount to modification cards (has been suggested).

I dont mind the idea of an astrodroid freeing up power to improve agility on a green manoeuver for example. It kind of fits with what the droids were meant to do - manage and repair systems. Your example is a droid who is finding a bit of extra juice to improve your position for a firing solution or to boost out of a firing arc. Probably by rerouting power from the coffee machine or the sound system. But again, its situational, not simply adding an action to the bar.

There have been some great suggestions on the many fix the X Wing threads, in terms of Astromech solutions. All of which are related to the dial in some way. Others, such as the recspecmech (basically recon specialist in a droid form) which grant extra focus are also a nice way of boosting a generic ship through the droid bay.