Personally I'd rather they buff bombers before the Xwing.

Then you are luck sir. Perhaps you have not heard of a new thing called Wave 7 and Extra Munitions?

Competitive play.

It's a Swiss army knife: it's not the fastest, hardest hitting, most customizable, or sexiest but for 21 points a rookie Xwing is a great value that often doesn't get targeted first. Wedge and Wes are great fun, too.

No fixes needed IMO.

I don't think "my opponents generally ignore it" constitutes a ringing endorsement

It's an echo of things here but it's not even the x-wing being bad, it's just the b-wing being too cheap.

Nah. The X-Wing just doesn't have any options. Give it some options like almost any other ship in the game has and it will shine.

Cost isn't really the issue.

First of all, I'll just say that I'm mainly an Imperial pilot, so I may not understand all the nuances. However I DO fly Rebels sometimes and I've never felt the X-Wing is missing anything. It's a good all around fighter, just like it's TIE/ln counterpart.

So why all the talk for an X-Wing fix?

Alex Davy himself said it was a bit weak. Its problem is that the B-wing is better than the X-wing at the X-wing's job.

I'll go on record as guessing a Title that decreases cost of an upgrade by 3 (+/-1).

My preferred fix would be a title that gives a 2-3 point discount on a modification. That and a new modification that gives the ship a barrel roll action on it's bar, like Engine Upgrade does with boost.

That would be nice.

Maybe something like a title that gives it an extra hull & the ability to add a Modification (excluding Hull)

Sort of like the TIE Interceptor title, but forcing a specific choice for 1 of the slots.

I don't understand the opposite

The X-wing is not well-rounded at all in this game. It's one of the stiffest, least maneuverable bucket of bolts out there because it lacks boost or roll (even the B-wing can dance around it). It's forced into a jousting role (because, again, very stiff to maneuver) but it can't even do that well because it's terribly priced for its stats. Now that Z-95s provide far more efficient jousters and Y-wings have enough flexible utility to offset their stiffness, the X-wing just feels more and more pointless outside a few select characters (mainly Luke).

The B-wing has nothing to do with why the X-wing is not doing well. The X-wing has been lagging since the Tie Fighter was deemed mathematically superior.

The B-wing is just cost effective and solid, being amazing only relative to how bleh the X is and in how versatile it can be because of its upgrade slots.

The X-wing should be striving to be like the B-wing and the B-wing should never ever be dragged down into the muck with the X-wing. Do that, and all that will happen is more stupid fat turrets show up as the only viable rebel builds.

I've never felt that a generic x wing was a good purchase. For 1 point more I get the B-wing which does every job better. For 3 points I get 2 z95's. The only named pilots I use is Garven and Luke. Garven for my go to fun synergy build and Luke who was one of the best phantom hunters in the game but there aren't as many phantoms as there are now. It's funny they're supposed to be space superiority fighters but they aren't superior to anything lol.

Personally I'd rather they buff bombers before the Xwing.

Then you are luck sir. Perhaps you have not heard of a new thing called Wave 7 and Extra Munitions?

Maybe my local meta is different but I've never used or played against a bomber that survived long enough to dump all its ordinance. They get shot early and often.

Your local meta is different, because Sable Gryphon went 11-5 with 4 Bombers w/ Prox Mines + a Lambda, which has made Prox Mine bombers a competitive build for anyone that actually has the components to build it (most players don't own 4 TIE Bombers and 4 Prox Mines). http://teamcovenant.com/sablegryphon/2014/11/10/victory-is-mined-2014-worlds-list-recap/

It's true that you might kill one bomber before it unloads 2 Missiles and 2 bombs (which only cost 8 points total thanks to EM!), but you can't kill 4 Bombers before they unload on you. If your local meta only puts 1 loaded Bomber in their list with a bunch of TIE Fighters, that only shows poor list-building by putting a single glass cannon in your list, not that a loaded TIE Bomber can't function when properly built around.

So you have to take 4 bombers for them to work? That doesn't sound like a great ship but whatever.

Cost isn't really the issue.

I disagree: cost is at the very heart of the issue. X-Wings might be a good buy if they were cheaper. Where they sit right now, they cost too much for the capabilities they bring to the table. If players got more bang for their buck, they would likely see more play.

So you have to take 4 bombers for them to work? That doesn't sound like a great ship but whatever.

How often do you see just a single TIE Fighter in an enemy squad?

Some ships work better with friends.

EDIT: I should elaborate to say that I got ROFLstomped at the final table of my first Store Championships by a Bomber swarm (5 Bombers plus a mix of Prox Mines and Ion Pulse Missiles).

A fighter isn't the same class of ship as a bomber.

So I see in this thread a lot of discussion comparing the Xwing and Bwing. If the Bwing is better than the Xwing at what you see as the Xwing's role and they buff the Xwing, how many Bwings will people use?

So basically you're saying that the X-Wing is no longer a ship worth flying if you're playing to win?

Yep.

Edit: And somehow I feel like your saying "playing to win" with utter disdain.

No, no disdain. I just mean in a setting other than playing for the fun of playing. Such as Regionals. You don't necessarily build a list for Regionals the same way you would list build for your average weekly get together.

So you have to take 4 bombers for them to work? That doesn't sound like a great ship but whatever.

How often do you see just a single TIE Fighter in an enemy squad?

Some ships work better with friends.

EDIT: I should elaborate to say that I got ROFLstomped at the final table of my first Store Championships by a Bomber swarm (5 Bombers plus a mix of Prox Mines and Ion Pulse Missiles).

A fighter isn't the same class of ship as a bomber.

So I see in this thread a lot of discussion comparing the Xwing and Bwing. If the Bwing is better than the Xwing at what you see as the Xwing's role and they buff the Xwing, how many Bwings will people use?

I think it depends on the nature of the buff. The key is to buff the X-Wing in such a way that it (hopefully) makes it stand apart from the B-Wing somehow. The astromech slot is one key way the ships already differ, and there are a lot of good astromechs.

Then again, there are so many good named X-Wing pilots, maybe a simple buff to the ship itself is all that will be needed (similar to the TIE Interceptor). It's hard to say.

A fighter isn't the same class of ship as a bomber.

So I see in this thread a lot of discussion comparing the Xwing and Bwing. If the Bwing is better than the Xwing at what you see as the Xwing's role and they buff the Xwing, how many Bwings will people use?

People will take an x-wing when they only have 21 points left. Or when they want to use a certain astromech. Or they want a particular pilot's ability like Garven, they won't be punished for having that ability on an xwing. Or they just want to fly the most iconic ship in the Star Wars universe without being handicapped in a tournament.

Previously in these situations you'd go out of your way to not take an x-wing. Got 21 points left in your list? Better change something so that you have 22 or 24 instead.

So after FFG sells you an Xwing buff, what ship do you not use anymore?

B-wings will still have a place. If naked, the ships are virtually interchangeable, then upgraded versions will see distinctions (x has astro and b-wing has crew, cannon, or system to distinguish)

So after FFG sells you an Xwing buff, what ship do you not use anymore?

As Rebels:

• Still most of the X-wing pilots (Biggs, Wedge, and Rookie will almost certainly be the best)
• Y-wings without a turret (i.e. forget ordnance on them even if ordnance is fixed)
• Generic YT-1300
• Any named A-wing probably other than Jake
• Any named B-wing other than Keyan
• Any HWK-290 not Roark
• Generic E-wings (Or even E'tahn for that matter)
• Possibly the K-wing too, TBD.

So after FFG sells you an Xwing buff, what ship do you not use anymore?

As Rebels:

• Still most of the X-wing pilots (Biggs, Wedge, and Rookie will almost certainly be the best)
• Y-wings without a turret (i.e. forget ordnance on them even if ordnance is fixed)
• Generic YT-1300
• Any named A-wing probably other than Jake
• Any named B-wing other than Keyan
• Any HWK-290 not Roark
• Generic E-wings (Or even E'tahn for that matter)
• Possibly the K-wing too, TBD.

poor Rebel Alliance....

That's a pretty comprehensive list. So do those ships need to be buffed when only 5% of competitive elimination round bracket challege superlists have, say, an Awing?

So you have to take 4 bombers for them to work? That doesn't sound like a great ship but whatever.

"The point is, you are alive [haven't even flipped your dial] when they start to eat [kill you with proximity mines]. So, you know, try to show a little respect."

Okay, so bombers are good if you take 4 of them. Yippee.

As Rebels:

I think the point that MajorJuggler is trying to make, is that no one takes those ships now.

Although you do see a few Jan's out there from time to time.

But honestly fixing the X-Wing wouldn't have much impact, other than you'd see more X-Wings, because other ships offer other things.

The issue isn't that one or even a couple the pilots aren't any good, the problem is that none of the pilots are generally worth taking.

That's a pretty comprehensive list. So do those ships need to be buffed when only 5% of competitive elimination round bracket challege superlists have, say, an Awing?

No because none of those ships are as iconic or as popular with general populace as the X-Wing. People who want the X-Wing buffed don't care about making the game perfectly balanced, they just want to see the starfighter that everyone loves from A New Hope and that the game is named after have a more respected place in the competitive meta.

And the game's current designers have publicly stated that they agree.