I took one with a Luke build also but now that phantoms aren't around as much his job is kind of meaningless. Not take anything away but store Champs are way easier than the rest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see some x wings take gencon or world's but I think it's a fantasy. The rebels are in a tough spot this season.

Store Champs are way easier, that's what I was pointing out Regionals and Worlds seem so far away when a SC is such a challenge for an X-wing to thrive in. With phantoms errated, the Stress Wing isn't nearly as necessary and I found myself wanting to fiddle more with another kind of scum. I think it can still work (it also busts Dash and Soontir on a regular basis and it deals with aggressors decently, plus Luke deals very well with swarms and mini-swarms) but the SC win was enough for me for now.

And I don't think Rebels are in a tough spot. They have the B-wing

they also have Fat Han, and that cancer apparently isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I took one with a Luke build also but now that phantoms aren't around as much his job is kind of meaningless. Not take anything away but store Champs are way easier than the rest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see some x wings take gencon or world's but I think it's a fantasy. The rebels are in a tough spot this season.

Store Champs are way easier, that's what I was pointing out Regionals and Worlds seem so far away when a SC is such a challenge for an X-wing to thrive in. With phantoms errated, the Stress Wing isn't nearly as necessary and I found myself wanting to fiddle more with another kind of scum. I think it can still work (it also busts Dash and Soontir on a regular basis and it deals with aggressors decently, plus Luke deals very well with swarms and mini-swarms) but the SC win was enough for me for now.

And I don't think Rebels are in a tough spot. They have the B-wing

they also have Fat Han, and that cancer apparently isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Yes the rebels have the B-wing and right now it's looking like that is there most competitive option. There other options are Z-swarm which is good, and control builds which i have yet to see win a major tournament but that doesn't mean it can't. Rebel big ships are almost not worth taking to regionals because there will be a TON of double Ig's and Chiraneu+Fel's.

I guess you could design a ship from the ground up to barrel roll in space. The question is, why on earth would you?

I guess you could design a ship from the ground up to barrel roll in space. The question is, why on earth would you?

Artificial gravity caused by centrifugal force.

#$%# I am good at this.

Same reason you would do it in atmosphere. It potentially means a faster opponent overshoots you and flies into a position where you can make a killshot.

Let me rephrase that- Why would you expend significant resources to replicate atmospheric conditions instead of developing a technique that could achieve the same result (Forcing an enemy to overshoot you) in a vacuum. Airplanes work the way they do because of, well, air. Without that, you have to rely exclusively on thrusters instead of drag and lift, which would significantly alter the way flight was achieved.

Not to mention space is really, really, really big and empty, so engagements in which you can actually get behind someone are probably going to be rare, since you can detect someone else from kilometers upon kilometers away.

What if it were a circular winged craft, whereupon the circular wing is technically always barrel rolling while the center module is stationary thereby gaining the artificial gravity.

There are no good reasons to use barrel rolls in space to reduce drag apart from to better position your ship for other tasks. Even then, it's not to reduce drag really. Retrothrusters are better in every case.

Star Wars ... rule of cool, science fantasy... yeah.

Space Emptiness is an issue, i'd fathom actual space combat in a few years time will be at relative speeds way in advance of what common jets move at. AI would probably be required to handle weapons as human reactions just wouldn't cut it.

Both centripetal and centrifugal force get weaker the closer you are to the point of rotation, so a central module would have virtually no gravity.

Also, to get appreciable g-forces, you need to have a significant amount of angular acceleration, which means either the core part of the module needs to spin really fast, or the actual habitation ring needs to be far from that point of rotation*.

*Disclaimer: It's been a few years since AP physics, so I might be a bit rusty on this.

Of course, in fiction, Rule of Cool is in full play, so as long as it maintains verisimilitude for the target audience, physics is irrelevant. Although as ForceM pointed out, the classic barrel roll would look silly in space. Some of the displacement rolls I saw while trying to find out how the barrel roll was discovered* might not, though, especially with something like the death star in the background to provide a distinct "down" for the audience and pilots to think of.

*Turns out it was first performed with a glider in 1905, and at first by accident after the wing warped

What if it were a circular winged craft, whereupon the circular wing is technically always barrel rolling while the center module is stationary thereby gaining the artificial gravity.

There are no good reasons to use barrel rolls in space to reduce drag apart from to better position your ship for other tasks. Even then, it's not to reduce drag really. Retrothrusters are better in every case.

Star Wars ... rule of cool, science fantasy... yeah.

Space Emptiness is an issue, i'd fathom actual space combat in a few years time will be at relative speeds way in advance of what common jets move at. AI would probably be required to handle weapons as human reactions just wouldn't cut it.

In aerial combat, one of the most common uses of a barrel roll is to retain energy while in pursuit of a slower, more agile opponent. Taking a brief moment to suspend disbelief and consider what use that might have in dogfighty space combat...You would have to be in low enough orbit of some celestial body to make a "climbing" turn retain energy, but it might be useful.

Actually you raise an extremely valid point.

The Deathstar MUST have had it's own gravitational field.

Red leader "i've just lost my starboard engine" and then is pulled into crashing on the surface.

Actually you raise an extremely valid point.

The Deathstar MUST have had it's own gravitational field.

Red leader "i've just lost my starboard engine" and then is pulled into crashing on the surface.

That whole mass and gravity thing...

The main problem with the X-wing is that the B-wing exists. For one point more, you get 3 more HP to chew through at the cost of a green die. Not to mention, look at that upgrade bar. Droids are good, but generally only the unique ones justify the extra points. Meanwhile, Systems houses some of the most powerful upgrades in the game.

Then there's Farlander. Jeebus.

The irony is that I almost always use an Xwing in a Rebel list and only rarely seem to use Bwings. Dunno.

Then you will rarely be winning regionals, gencon, or world's

**** me, it's a challenge to take store champs

did it with the stress wing though

I took one with a Luke build also but now that phantoms aren't around as much his job is kind of meaningless. Not take anything away but store Champs are way easier than the rest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see some x wings take gencon or world's but I think it's a fantasy. The rebels are in a tough spot this season.

But i think i was wrong. Phantom got nerfed which really does hurt it a bit, and i thought Soontir would now totally dominate, and he is very strong, but still not unbeatable. One good block and he can be toast.

Rebel swarm builds like Tarn plus Z, BBBBZ or other stuff like Panic Attack or Warthogs are not by any means bad. Fat Han, Chewbo and other Turret lists are also still not entirely dead and sometimes win tournaments. I have seen all of these lists take top spots in competitive play indeed.

So Rebels are not in an absolutely bad spot. I think they are however at the moment weaker than Empire and perhaps even weaker than Scum. This is because their saving grace are the B-Wing and the Z-95. The Y-Wing also made a leap forward but ifk if it is a top pick yet. And for both B and Z you have pretty much just the generics that are great, but from the named only Farlander makes some sense, and he goes down too quick for his price. 1Agi high HP ships just are not like high Agi where often the more points you stick into him the more survivable they become. On ships like Phantoms or Soontir there ate just shots an enemy will not take because chances of success are just so minimal. But on a B-Wing, no matter what you bought for it, your adversary knows that every shot will ping it at least and it will go down if enough red dice are thrown its way, unlike high agi ships that can survive indefinitely unless you roll very bad...

Actually you raise an extremely valid point.

The Deathstar MUST have had it's own gravitational field.

Red leader "i've just lost my starboard engine" and then is pulled into crashing on the surface.

That whole mass and gravity thing...

You know, that makes the death star's design rather nonsensical. In order to keep the station's own gravity from working against it's artificial gravity, the logical thing to do is have the power core and stuff at the center, with the actual personnel in a shell circling around it.

Rebel big ships are almost not worth taking to regionals because there will be a TON of double Ig's and Chiraneu+Fel's.

you have no idea how much I hope you're right

In space a true barrel roll is actually easier due to the fact that there is no drag/friction. If you are thrust in a sidewards motion and you are able to use gyroscopics to turn on axis, then you are always barrel rolling.

Yes you could, but it's totally useless and a waste of time and energy. In atmospheric combat the maneuver makes sense because first you lose speed and gain altitude and then immediately trade it back, and wing lift of the plane as well as gravity help you do so. While in space you would have to use a lot of thrust for not much benefit in a combat. And thats why it would also look silly XD

You know, that makes the death star's design rather nonsensical. In order to keep the station's own gravity from working against it's artificial gravity, the logical thing to do is have the power core and stuff at the center, with the actual personnel in a shell circling around it.

I believe the old Death Star technical manual from west end games said that most of the DS's habitable area was just like that. There were only a relatively few areas, like docking bays that were oriented latitudinally, and then lifts with rotating cars were used for the transition.

I'm not a physics major but I don't think the Death Star would have as much gravity as you think, even though the station is made of metal it's not necessarily dense like solid metal would be. Think of it as a honeycomb, it's not that dense.

Rebel big ships are almost not worth taking to regionals because there will be a TON of double Ig's and Chiraneu+Fel's.

you have no idea how much I hope you're right

They'll be there and probably in force but they won't be winning. Empire has the most effective turret in the game now and you're able to partner it with the most effective arc dodger in the game.

Rebel big ships are almost not worth taking to regionals because there will be a TON of double Ig's and Chiraneu+Fel's.

you have no idea how much I hope you're right

They'll be there and probably in force but they won't be winning. Empire has the most effective turret in the game now and you're able to partner it with the most effective arc dodger in the game.

Thats absolutely true but the 2-ship metamight be over soon. There are tendencies to run more and cheaper shios again and not without success!

Realistically the Death Star would probably need an artificial gravity generator of some kind, or gyroscopics.

Honestly it's best not to try to make too much sense of star wars physics.

As for barrel rolls in space. Yeah there is no good reason, but it is possible.

Real spacecraft roll for docking, space walking, and payload delivery.

Real spacecraft roll for docking, space walking, and payload delivery.

That would be a European swallow not an african one though. I mean it'd be an axis/aileron roll rather than a barrel roll.

To get back on the topic of the X-Wing fix (please be gentle for my first post!), I find myself replaying the attack on the Death Star in my mind. It's really the only place we see X-Wings in combat in any sort of detail outside of the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games. So what do we see about the X-Wings? They had deflectors, not really shields, though that has been expanded upon in other media outside the movies, and they didn't really do much. Still, it's one thing that sets the X-Wing apart from TIE Fighters. What other characteristics does the X-Wing have? 4 huge cannons on the wings which split apart for combat, 4 huge engines, a pretty solid-looking fuselage, torpedoes, and the astromech. What isn't already covered? The nature of the S-foils hasn't been tapped yet, though some suggestions have been made in previous threads. Other than that, the physical characteristics of the X-Wing have all been accounted for. So what's left? Stuff we know but don't see, stuff we know through dialog. I liked how the Stay on Target card came about, especially as it lifted a line from the movie. What other lines can we use?

"Stabilize rear deflectors. Watch for enemy fighters" - Thanks Gold 5. That's another quote from you, but it's Y-wing related. How about an X-Wing quote: "Switch your deflectors on, double front."

These got me thinking, maybe we can represent these in some way for the X-Wing. How about this (and I have no idea about how powerful these may or may not be):

"Stabilize Rear Deflectors" - [focus] - When defending, if you have at least one shield and the attacker is outside your firing arc, cancel one [hit].

"Deflectors On, Double Front" - same as above except inside your firing arc.

They don't give the X-Wing arc-dodging, or reduce points, or make its attacks more powerful, but they give it a little bit more survivability. Note they require a focus and that you have shields, but they don't spend the focus for the ability. Although it makes it seem like it should be an EPT, so maybe drop the focus, and the shield requirement and arc restriction is enough to balance off the ability as a modification. The second one focuses the X-Wing a little more into a jousting role, while the third helps mitigate being arc-dodged a little bit. Maybe I'm just crazy here, but I don't see getting a "Yavin IV Refit" for the X-Wing to drop its points, and FFG aren't going to just change the ship, so it'll have to be a title or modification (or a whole new slew of pilots, but we already got those with the GR-75). I'd rather something that gives a cool ability than just a points adjustment.

While there is no functional reason these need to be restricted to the X-Wing (we've seen everyone with shields in the various games can "stabilize" and "double front" their shields), the movies only touch on this in relation to X-Wings and Y-Wings (for small ships - I know Han tells Chewie to "angle the deflectors" on the Falcon). That's primary source material and good enough for me.

X-Wings are my favorite ship. I'm not likely to play in tournaments, so I'll keep flying them regardless, but I've enjoyed the thread and wanted to try contributing in some small way. Well, I've said my piece, looking forward to any feedback.

Barrel roll has the connotation of a complete 360 roll, not commonly used in space but the shuttles did it. For space walking I believe they went belly towards the sun to shield the astronauts before turning back over for reentry. Plus it looks cool during sci-fi dogfights.

For the purposes of our game I always chalked up the barrel roll mechanic to some ship's extra maneuvering ability and want to call it a "strafe" myself. Come to think of it, I think I might start calling stafe from now on.

Cool story bro: Listening Mike Massimino describe space walking was pretty cool. He said he had to train himself to focus on his task because there were times he'd rather just turn and gawk at the Earth.

Just to add a small addendum to the discussions that I haven't noticed elsewhere in this thread, B-wings also have S-foils, so potentially using that as a rationale to improve the X-wing then applies to the B-wing too.

So, for those of you who believe the X-wing does not need a fix, what are some viable X-wing builds?