The main problem with the X-wing is that the B-wing exists. For one point more, you get 3 more HP to chew through at the cost of a green die. Not to mention, look at that upgrade bar. Droids are good, but generally only the unique ones justify the extra points. Meanwhile, Systems houses some of the most powerful upgrades in the game.

Then there's Farlander. Jeebus.

The irony is that I almost always use an Xwing in a Rebel list and only rarely seem to use Bwings. Dunno.

Then you will rarely be winning regionals, gencon, or world's

**** me, it's a challenge to take store champs

did it with the stress wing though

.... this shot still bugs me. If you're going to add in fancy new effects to your movie, at least do it properly with some tender loving care and honour the people whose work you're replacing. This is an X-wing with Red 2 markings and R2-D2 (it's meant to be Luke). In fact, I believe they only ever built one CGI X-wing model, so you're always seeing Red 2, which gets duplicated in the shots where there are more than one. This is one moment where it's really noticeable.

Thats Luke with Expert Handling!

A half rotation more and Luke needs to puke

This is just a roll anyway. Its no barrel roll.

If it was Porkins in the cockpit, would it be a jelly roll?

Then why was the Bwing in Rebel Aces and not the Xwing?

Because FFG missed an opportunity.

Personally, I'd really like to see a Rogue Squadron expansion that included two X Wings, some cool new pilots, and a generic fix for the X Wing. Maybe something like the TIE advance fix? Something that reduces Astromech costs by 2 or 3? Or just something that brings their cost down. 5 X's at 100 points would, I think, be a fair match for the BBBBZ lists that seem very popular.

Personally, I'd really like to see a Rogue Squadron expansion that included two X Wings, some cool new pilots, and a generic fix for the X Wing. Maybe something like the TIE advance fix? Something that reduces Astromech costs by 2 or 3? Or just something that brings their cost down. 5 X's at 100 points would, I think, be a fair match for the BBBBZ lists that seem very popular.

I'd be happy enough with that. With the Rebels running low on options for small-based ships now, Aces packs or individual releases of existing ships with repaints, new pilot cards and upgrades could be a way to go.

If it was Porkins in the cockpit, would it be a jelly roll?

A belly roll

If it was Porkins in the cockpit, would it be a jelly roll?

That and engine strain.

That and engine strain.

Don't worry though - he can hold it.

Good job FFG have prevented us moving pilots into different ships. Can you imagine Porkins in a B wing? The cockpit would ALWAYS be on the bottom.

The E2 upgrade would be the Porkins Custom Special.

Ok thats enough fat man bashing now.

Back to topic!

Back to bashing skinny farm boys with severe inner ear dysfunction.

Puke Skywalker....

Nice try ...

but thats also not the topic.

I do like the idea of a discounted X a little more than most of the other ideas. Yes, it's not very thematic, but perhaps it's most simple. I think it has been comprehensively argued that it is not the B Wing which is the X Wings problem (or at least it's problem is most evident by comparison to the B). The B (and Z95) is just points efficient in a way that the X isn't. It's not that the rest of the game needs adjusting relative to the X, but rather the reverse. The game has moved on since wave 1 and if some of the stuff that has been seen on this, and other threads is accurate then the way that ships are priced has changed too.

Making the X worth it's ACTUAL points at this point in the game only makes the X better relative to the game. It would open more build space to include Xs. If the B was 3-4 points more expensive than the X and the Z95 only 6-7 less, the X Wing would have more to offer for it's price. Yes the B would still be better, but it would be 3-4 points better, not 1.

The X would be the mid range between the Z and B. Not as specialized as either the A or B, but cheap enough to field in large-ish numbers with minimal upgrades. The Red Squadron PS upgrade would mean more then, you get a better PS though you trade that for 1 less ship in 100 Points. As has been said; 5 X lists would bring something to the rebels which they don't have at the moment. A nice midway between a Z swarm and 4 B Wings which would improve rebel build diversity.

From experience of playing 5 X lists in 100 points, I don't think this poses any real difficulty or imbalance to the game as a whole.

I'm sorry but I have to say that I am glad that this won't happen this way.

I still think a thematic solution can be had. Rebels help each other out and so I'd love an approach that emphasises this for X-wing flyers. Something that rewards flying in formation and/or flying more than one X-wing on the board. Things like Garven's ability, which is great on paper but needs the action. Whenever I'm playing it seems to me that any X-wings without actions are X-wings that rely heavily on luck. Those dice can be cruel. I was a bit saddened that Fleet Officer was imperial only, as that kind of thing would be perfect for rebels; would have been great as a "Rogue Squadron Leader" title.

Heck, how about a Rogue Squadron title card that allows the X-wing to keep its action even when it crashes/overlaps another ship? That would be unique.

I'd prefer something added to its value at low to no cost rather than a baseline discount. Discounted modifications would probably do it, allowing players to decide if it will get a durability boost or an mobility boost with EU. Another idea would be to offer something that improves its damage output, to cement the role of glass cannon--a tradeoff to the b-wing counterpart who would keep it's superior longevity.

I'd prefer something added to its value at low to no cost rather than a baseline discount. Discounted modifications would probably do it, allowing players to decide if it will get a durability boost or an mobility boost with EU.

I'm sorry but I have to say that I am glad that this won't happen this way.

Hey no problems;you have a different opinion . Thats the one thing that has remained constant through all of these X Wing related threads. Its such a well loved ship, noone wants to see it languishing in the game. Though everyone has their own ideas about how it should be.

Though I think you are probably right. Its not an avenue I would expect FFG to go down. However the X Wing's stats, HP, dial, dice etc seems a reasonable approximation of the X Wings capabilities in the SW universe when measured against the TIE Fighter, its main nemesis. Its only when you consider it in terms of what it offers for the points that you start running up against problems, especially compared to later waves, which suggests the points modelling rather than the stats were wrong. Its strange that the TIE is so points efficient whereas the X Wing, designed at the same time, is not.

Buffing the X Wing is more complex and more difficult to balance in game than simply offering a discount. Granted It isnt interesting, and I agree with all the comments to that effect. But its the old Murphy's Law saying: If its stupid and works, it isnt stupid. A discounted X at least means that you dont HAVE to take whatever fix is presented if you so choose. I just think adding choice should be the nature of this game, not restricting it.

I'd prefer something added to its value at low to no cost rather than a baseline discount. Discounted modifications would probably do it, allowing players to decide if it will get a durability boost or an mobility boost with EU. Another idea would be to offer something that improves its damage output, to cement the role of glass cannon--a tradeoff to the b-wing counterpart who would keep it's superior longevity.

I think an offensive or mobility boost would be great; it was a fighter after all. Being able to hunt and kill enemy fighters depends on both attributes. I am less sure of durability. The X was a fighter and was much lighter in role and concept than its heavier and tankier cousins, the Y and B Wings. Having only 2 HP less than both (with a built in +1 HP boost) seems off to me. Though I accept the mathwing arguments that from a points efficiency standpoint that it works quite elegantly.

The basic X even buffed (with whatever fix) at 21 points will still only be 1 point less than a B Wing. Given the (many) comparison arguments which have been well made, a fix would have to offer something pretty sexy to give people a reason to take the X over the B. This seems unlikely for the points space being considered.

The basic X a few points cheaper would have a much stronger argument - for what it offers in terms of stats, HP etc - over taking a basic B. It would also occupy a mid range role for its price between the heavier, tougher but slightly dial restricted B Wing, and the lighter, cheaper and less hard hitting Z and A.

At 19 points you have significant build space to take advantage of mods, droids or torps on the X. Running 5 nekkid rookies or 4 reds with a few points of upgrades each would offer the potential for widely different lists and at a lower price you would probably see more builds incorporate X Wings, certainly more than now.

The main problem with the X-wing is that the B-wing exists. For one point more, you get 3 more HP to chew through at the cost of a green die. Not to mention, look at that upgrade bar. Droids are good, but generally only the unique ones justify the extra points. Meanwhile, Systems houses some of the most powerful upgrades in the game.

Then there's Farlander. Jeebus.

The irony is that I almost always use an Xwing in a Rebel list and only rarely seem to use Bwings. Dunno.

Then you will rarely be winning regionals, gencon, or world's

**** me, it's a challenge to take store champs

did it with the stress wing though

I took one with a Luke build also but now that phantoms aren't around as much his job is kind of meaningless. Not take anything away but store Champs are way easier than the rest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see some x wings take gencon or world's but I think it's a fantasy. The rebels are in a tough spot this season.

A half rotation more and Luke needs to puke

This is just a roll anyway. Its no barrel roll.

There is no barrel roll in any of the movies. I know they are supposed to fly like WW2 planes or at least to be reminiscent of them, but a real barrel roll just needs atmosphere as its not just rolling the plane around its axis, you also need elevator and rudder for it. It's like if you rolled your plane inside an imaginary barrel, hence the name.

I think there are none in the movies as without atmosphere that would look kinda silly.

People really like the X-Wing but are doing poorly with it in competitive play and are being punished for choosing to fly the most iconic starfighter in the game.

Probably the most accurate statement about the current state of the X-wing fighter.

The total lack of post maneuver movement action really hurts this ship. Why it can't barrel roll is beyond me.

Because this is luke with the Expert Handling EPT

I took one with a Luke build also but now that phantoms aren't around as much his job is kind of meaningless. Not take anything away but store Champs are way easier than the rest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see some x wings take gencon or world's but I think it's a fantasy. The rebels are in a tough spot this season.

Store Champs are way easier, that's what I was pointing out Regionals and Worlds seem so far away when a SC is such a challenge for an X-wing to thrive in. With phantoms errated, the Stress Wing isn't nearly as necessary and I found myself wanting to fiddle more with another kind of scum. I think it can still work (it also busts Dash and Soontir on a regular basis and it deals with aggressors decently, plus Luke deals very well with swarms and mini-swarms) but the SC win was enough for me for now.

And I don't think Rebels are in a tough spot. They have the B-wing

they also have Fat Han, and that cancer apparently isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

A half rotation more and Luke needs to puke

This is just a roll anyway. Its no barrel roll.

There is no barrel roll in any of the movies. I know they are supposed to fly like WW2 planes or at least to be reminiscent of them, but a real barrel roll just needs atmosphere as its not just rolling the plane around its axis, you also need elevator and rudder for it. It's like if you rolled your plane inside an imaginary barrel, hence the name.

I think there are none in the movies as without atmosphere that would look kinda silly.

Why couldnt you barrel roll in space? You could apply the same forces to a ship in the X, Y and Z axis to achieve a similar effect. Why cant a ship in space slew its nose left and right independently of its ability to point its nose in a direction and rotate on its longtitudinal axis? A barrel roll is simply corkscrewing a ship through space and historically served to make the plane 'slower' by flying a longer course over the same period of forward travel. You could do that in a vacuum as in atmosphere.

You can do it in the PC games. Its legit

In space a true barrel roll is actually easier due to the fact that there is no drag/friction. If you are thrust in a sidewards motion and you are able to use gyroscopics to turn on axis, then you are always barrel rolling.