Don't think anyone can "duplicate" a meta this diverse.
Even if you lift a list card-for-card off the net it isn't going to hand you a regional win. There's nothing wrong with it.
Not individually. By your second or third mirror match you may be wishing you built to counter the meta rather than duplicate it.
Not to mention that if I am losing mirror matches there's really only one guy to blame!
Obama!
Don't think anyone can "duplicate" a meta this diverse.
Even if you lift a list card-for-card off the net it isn't going to hand you a regional win. There's nothing wrong with it.
Not individually. By your second or third mirror match you may be wishing you built to counter the meta rather than duplicate it.
Not to mention that if I am losing mirror matches there's really only one guy to blame!
Dice isn't a guy 
I submit there is not a meta. I think people are finally building list they think will work well instead of a carbon copy of last years champion list. It's a sign of a healthy game system.
great job as usual with the data
Still, sad to see fatties are still more prevalent than they ought to be (re: not at all) and that tier 1 is basically Wave 5: redux
I'm glad B-wings managed to sneak in a spot during the last wave and have managed to hold onto it, at least
The meta hasn't changed much in the last two waves and it won't until the tie adv shakes up the tournament meta. Fat Han is still the best list in game until 4 adv or some varient of that list takes over.
Edited by GungoKind of related note on net decking
Those that copy card for card are doomed to fail
Those that change 2-3 cards out of 50-60 to combat the local meta are probably gonna win
Kind of relevant to xwing, maybe change a few points of upgrades if it will give you an advantage vs locals
Kind of related note on net decking
Those that copy card for card are doomed to fail
Those that change 2-3 cards out of 50-60 to combat the local meta are probably gonna win
Kind of relevant to xwing, maybe change a few points of upgrades if it will give you an advantage vs locals
I think it works for a national meta too.
From what I understand, Paul Heaver pretty much did exactly this and won Worlds. In his case, the 2-3 cards equivalent was putting R2D2 on Fat Han instead of the standard gunner.
Of course he's also a ludicrously good player. But from a list-building perspective he pretty much followed the formula you outlined.
EDIT: Make that an international meta.
Edited by Droofus
RAC + Fel may not be much better than RAC + Whisper, but at the moment it is more prevalent. I personally think that the Phantom players have run away from Whisper for now, but the pendulum will swing back the other way somewhat once they realize that it is still a solid ship as long as it wins the PS war.
Unfortunately, the phantom is far too easy to predict now if you have a ship like soontir that can move around so much. The PS war isn't what it once was.
We just recorded the next NOVA episode last night, and Neil did a great job at pouring through some data so we could look over the prevalent lists. Hopefully it will release on Tuesday!
Can you give us the abstract?
Full credit goes to Neil Jenkins.
Tier 1 (proven lists that win tournaments)- 4BZ (note that this archetype family could also include the other flavors of 4B, such as 4x Blues+AdvS, 4x Blues+AccuracyCorrector, 4x Blues+IonC, 4x Blues+FCS+???; it's probably just a matter of how you want to spend those extra 12 points)- Fat Han + Support (Zs; Autothruster Prototypes)- Soontir + Chirpy- Note: ATC Vader immediately becomes Tier 1 when Imperial Raider is releasedTier 1.5- Brobots (many varieties)- Panic Attack (although this may not be all that different from 4BZ, esp. with BTL-A4)Tier 2 (proven lists that tend to make Top 8 and have a shot)- Corran + Turret (Dash with HLC or Mangler; Chewie with Lando, EI, etc)- Soontir/Whisper + Mini-Swarm- TIE Swarm- Whisper + ChirpyTier 3 (on the radar, but not there quite yet)- Rebel Warthogs, Scum Warthogs- Random 4 Rebel / 5 Scum- Elite Squints- Scum Firespray (Super Kath, Mad Bomber) + Support (Zs, Sycks, Warthogs)- Scum 7Z + Feedback Array- IG88B + Boba Fett (see Sable Gryphon's squad)- 3x Phantom - Aaron's 6-Sigma (will anyone be crazy enough to fly this?)
Dual iggy is very good. It came on super late in the season of course but has been very effective. The phantom nerf helps them. It can even beat chirp + soontir consistently despite soontir type ships being a problem for the IG-88s because they can kill the decimator so easily, and then it becomes difficult for soontir alone to do enough damage. Also, I would love it if people would continue to underestimate Dash. Makes my life easier 
I've lost once to duel iggy it's a fun list but I don't see it being uber competitive.
Yea I haven't lost a game to dual IG yet. This probably has as much to do my lists as it does with the IG lists. I've been playing a lot of rebel Ace + stress builds.
I don't think IG's going to be taking any regionals or anything. But it'll be common enough that you need to have a plan for it.
Top 8 from Stele Open:
1st -
4x Blues
Bandit
2nd -
Corran+VI+R2-D2+FTorp
2x Blue
Bandit
Top 4 -
Kavil+BlasterTurr+R4Agromech
N'Dru+LoneWolf
Laetin+HSI+Mangler
Torkil+ICT+K4
Top 4 -
Kath+PtL+K4+Mangler
4x Black Sun Soldier
Top 8 -
IG-88B+VI+Mangler+FCS+Autothrusters+InertDamp
2x Thug+ICT+R4Agromech+BTL-A4+BombLoadout+Seismic
Top 8 -
Echo+VI+RecSpec+ACD+FCS
Howlrunner
Backstabber
2x AP
Top 8 -
Boba+VI+RecSpec+FlecCannon+Engine+InertDamp
IG-88D+LoneWolf+HLC+AdvS+Autothrusters
Top 8 -
4x Blues
Bandit
Edited by TasteTheRainbowDual Decimators won the first UK regionals event yesterday
impressive. Loadout?
impressive. Loadout?
Patrol leader + vader
Oicun + predator + rebel captive + gunner + Ysanne
Sounds like he got lucky and missed any rebel or tie swarms and went 9 - 0 for the day.
I'm a big admirer of the data. If I weren't neck deep in grading and trying to get a publication out, as well as sundry other projects, there'd be a ton of notions that I'd want to explore with it.
I like your analysis of the need for closer scrutiny of the data. What's your field?
I teach international studies, but my specialty is in the EU (European Union), but I' really have been far too absorbed by that other EU. 
I've had the requisite courses in quantitative methodology, but my use of them is really rusty.
I have the same objection and the same problems. I like playing in tournaments against other Fly Casual players, but it would be nice to win once in a while...On a personal note, I seem to have a particular revulsion towards playing top-tier lists, or anything that I didn't come up with. It's clear (to me) that my own builds are not particularly winning, and those who score better at the tournaments that I attend do not seem to have a hangup about using a squad they read online.
Should I just get over myself?
Well, I got another walloping yesterday (read about it here). It's odd, because I used to not do this badly when I was flying TIE bombers. I would usually win 2 out of 3. Lately, I've had to fight to win 2 out of 6, and have usually fared worse. It happened after someone told me that I should play more competitive ships.
Well, that's not true. I took my bombers to a match and went 1(w) for 2(l), but I attribute that (in part) because my opponents had all flown against me before and had seen the mean side of the bomber. Frequently I could count on the bomber being misunderstood and underestimated.
Even if you lift a list card-for-card off the net it isn't going to hand you a regional win. There's nothing wrong with it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it, and I begrudge no one who goes that route. It's not easy to win a major event, no matter the list, and there's something to be said for running a list that has a target on its back.
It's just something I have zero desire to do, mostly for stupid egotistical reasons.
Everyone who plays Xwing a fair bit runs into players with this mentality. Not saying it is true with this poster as I obviously have never met him, but in my experience in playing against these types, they want to prove they are better/smarter than you by beating you with their own list. They are quick to write off their loss with "yeah, if I wanted to fly XYZ I could win all the time too"
Even if you lift a list card-for-card off the net it isn't going to hand you a regional win. There's nothing wrong with it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it, and I begrudge no one who goes that route. It's not easy to win a major event, no matter the list, and there's something to be said for running a list that has a target on its back.
It's just something I have zero desire to do, mostly for stupid egotistical reasons.
Everyone who plays Xwing a fair bit runs into players with this mentality. Not saying it is true with this poster as I obviously have never met him, but in my experience in playing against these types, they want to prove they are better/smarter than you by beating you with their own list. They are quick to write off their loss with "yeah, if I wanted to fly XYZ I could win all the time too"
Heh, well everyone wants to protect their own ego. You certainly have a point that there's much more to the game than squad-building and luck.
Yet, to a certain extent they (may) have a point (individual cases may vary), in that by net-listing, the netlisters are taking a shortcut in the overall process. Of course, that shortcut is completely legal, and it allows them to put more energy into the other aspects of mastering the game.
But, let's not pretend that netlisters don't want to prove that they are better/smarter than you by being better/smarter at the other aspects of the game. The whole point of winning a tournament is to test how good/smart you are at this game, and demonstrate it to your opponents.
Yea but net-listers have one less thing to blame when they lose.
It's always the green dice treacherous bastards that they are!
I was almost thinking about just sticking with the whole Chiraneau/Whisper thing despite the cloaking change until the Raider comes out to let me have the list I really want, Soontir, Whisper, and a Tempest (since Soontir, Echo, and Carnor proved a little too dicey). Would it really be such a bad idea, or should I join the Soontir herd here? The boost direction and exact firing arcs are a lot less predictable, but I feel like at least in terms of the larger area of the board Whisper can cover a lot more ground.
Edited by PenguinBonaparte
Even if you lift a list card-for-card off the net it isn't going to hand you a regional win. There's nothing wrong with it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it, and I begrudge no one who goes that route. It's not easy to win a major event, no matter the list, and there's something to be said for running a list that has a target on its back.
It's just something I have zero desire to do, mostly for stupid egotistical reasons.
Everyone who plays Xwing a fair bit runs into players with this mentality. Not saying it is true with this poster as I obviously have never met him, but in my experience in playing against these types, they want to prove they are better/smarter than you by beating you with their own list. They are quick to write off their loss with "yeah, if I wanted to fly XYZ I could win all the time too"
It's a pretty big jump from "I greatly prefer to play with lists I make myself" to "I don't want to take responsibility for my losses." In my 20-odd years of miniatures/ccg gaming, I have only ever heard people say what you suggest when they were also jerks and lousy sports. You may play with a lot of jerks, I don't know.
Still see a lot of YT-1300s Outriders and some Decimators.
Regionals in Malmö, Sweden just finished.
I couldn't find a Regionals thread, so here are the results:
(Thank you FFG for allowing us to hold it a week early)
30 players, 5 rounds of swiss, and cut to top 4.
Game length: 75 minutes (the final was untimed)
One semi-final and the final were filmed and will be released on my Youtube channel.
Winner
Mårten Cederholm (#2 after swiss)
Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Autothrusters + Hull Upgrade + Royal Guard TIE
Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive + Gunner + Ysanne Isard
Runner-up
Kasper Scharling (#4 after swiss)
Biggs Darklighter
Rookie Pilot + R3-A2
Blue Squadron Pilot + Tactician + Fire-Control System + bwing/E2
Bandit Squadron Pilot
Bandit Squadron Pilot
3rd Place
Johan Hofverberg (#1 after swiss)
Keyan Farlander + Stay on Target + Advanced Sensors
Chewbacca + Predator + Millennium Falcon + Gunner
Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit
4th Place
Tommy Byö (#3 after swiss)
Tala Squadron Pilot
Tala Squadron Pilot
Airen Cracken + Veteran Instincts
Chewbacca + Predator + Millennium Falcon + Gunner + C-3PO
Here is the link to List Juggler: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=387
Edited by VeldrinInteresting. All these Chirpy Soontir's are surprising to me. Soontir/swarm is just gobs better in elimination rounds and the B's are so popular. Hopefully MJ starts a regional results thread soon.
I think it's the combination of high PS with all of Chiraneau's damage mods is better vs low-count, high AGI squads that are fairly common, particularly in timed environments.
Regionals in Malmö, Sweden just finished.
I couldn't find a Regionals thread, so here are the results:
(Thank you FFG for allowing us to hold it a week early)
30 players, 5 rounds of swiss, and cut to top 4.
Game length: 75 minutes (the final was untimed)
One semi-final and the final were filmed and will be released on my Youtube channel.
Winner
Mårten Cederholm (#2 after swiss)
Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Autothrusters + Hull Upgrade + Royal Guard TIE
Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Rebel Captive + Gunner + Ysanne Isard
Runner-up
Kasper Scharling (#4 after swiss)
Biggs Darklighter
Rookie Pilot + R3-A2
Blue Squadron Pilot + Tactician + Fire-Control System + bwing/E2
Bandit Squadron Pilot
Bandit Squadron Pilot
3rd Place
Johan Hofverberg (#1 after swiss)
Keyan Farlander + Stay on Target + Advanced Sensors
Chewbacca + Predator + Millennium Falcon + Gunner
Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit
4th Place
Tommy Byö (#3 after swiss)
Tala Squadron Pilot
Tala Squadron Pilot
Airen Cracken + Veteran Instincts
Chewbacca + Predator + Millennium Falcon + Gunner + C-3PO
Here is the link to List Juggler: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=387
dem turrets doe
