Okay I have a serious question. This is not a troll or a complaint but a real question. It is possible that the TIE Punisher is simply the replacement for the TIE Bomber? Is it possible that is FFG's attempt?

We don't know what it's dial is yet. But for one more point you loose one Agility and gain three Shields, looking a Major Rhymer to 'Red Line'. You also gain Boost and an System Slot. Additionally it doesn't appear that you get extra Extra Munitions to use on your existing bombers and we get a bunch of new ordnance.

Maybe that the idea? Perhaps the same is true for the K-Wing to replace what then?

Thoughts?

I don't think so.

The cards that come with the punisher give the bomber new life but really it depends how you want to fly.

if you want all your eggs in one eggbox, the punisher.

If you want some supporting heavy firepower, the bomber.

If you want a B17 flying fortress, then K-wing.

No. Those likely 5 pts are pretty important. And it doesn't gain that much in terms of durability.

Yes, it has different options, but remember, the system upgrades cost points.

Nah it'll be cheaper to take bombers and they remain a solid ship, hopefully they'll play well together.

Major Rhymer + Extra Munitions + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Push the Limit + Seismic Charges (39)

Cant see a Punisher beating this.

Does the Punisher replace the Bomber?

Short answer, no.

Long answer, they fulfill similar roles but are different ships: they're both missile boats, and you choose the one that fulfills the role you need. The TIE bomber is cheaper, more agile, more swarmable, the TIE punisher is more expensive, built to survive to fire off a lot of weaponary, and has the system slot. They also may (no dials yet) have different maneuverabilities.

Does the TIE punisher fill its own space that was previously unfilled? I don't think so. The TIE punisher is in competition with the TIE bomber, but which one you take I think depends more on your needs than some linear comparison the two ships.

I think they'll be a nice complement but not a replacement. I can't wait to try fly Redline accompanied by some Bombers.

The TIE Punisher is more expensive by 1 point, comparing 'Red Line' to Major Rhymer. So it's not that swarmier is it? Seriously?

It's more like a bomber with more options.

Jonus will be more useful than ever. Not too sure about the generics. I'll have to see what the ordnance are.

Major Rhymer + Extra Munitions + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Push the Limit + Seismic Charges (39)

Cant see a Punisher beating this.

You are braver than I am. Not spending nearly 40 points on essentially is an X-wing with a hull upgrade. You are going to have to throw in 60 more points of something even scarier.

Redline is one more point than Rhymer, but Rhymer is the most over-costed pilot in the game. I think you pay nearly 4 points for his ability if I remember correctly.

Do we really need 2 threads for the same topic?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/173464-with-the-heavy-bombers-coming-out-what-does-that-mean-for-the-humble-tie-bomber/

The TIE Punisher is more expensive by 1 point, comparing 'Red Line' to Major Rhymer. So it's not that swarmier is it? Seriously?

It's more like a bomber with more options.

You are operating under the assumption that "Redline" has the same kind of cost to his ability Rhymer does. I think that is a faulty assumption. Especially when the designers have noted the issues the B-wing has cause the X-wing.

Assuming the pretty standard of +1 pt for PS and ability, the base Punisher is 21 pts. Sure, not perfect, but I wouldn't bet on it being lower than 19 pts, at the VERY best.

... but Rhymer is the most over-costed pilot in the game. I think you pay nearly 4 points for his ability if I remember correctly.

I think it's 5 points. That's only worth the cost with advanced proton torpedoes. He has to get two good shots.

Nothing can replace the satisfaction of placing and then moving four kitted out TIE/sa bombers led by Captain Jonus.

With extra munitions it brings even more power to the squad! Nice!

Even Proton Bombs become interesting!

Major Rhymer can now carry 2 Advanced Proton Torps for eight points instead of twelve!

I think the question is: Will it get played more then bombers? The other good question is: Who the f@#k plays bombers? I think just like the bomber the punisher will be another "bomb". The only time I've seen the bomber used was in swarms with no upgrades on it what so ever. And this is mostly because after you take a bomber and throw some upgrades on them they cost to much. People just target them and easily take down this over priced, shoot last, terd. And looking at the price of the punisher I think it will be even worse. And still the ship only has 2 attack power with a higher cost. Other then buying it for its collection of upgrade cards I don't see this ship getting much play. These ships need an ability that allows them to target lock at the start of combat to even make them useful. Or something like dead eye. This is the big flaw in missals that have mostly left them unused. The extra munitions was a step in the right direction but I don't think it was enough.

I think the question is: Will it get played more then bombers? The other good question is: Who the f@#k plays bombers? I think just like the bomber the punisher will be another "bomb". The only time I've seen the bomber used was in swarms with no upgrades on it what so ever. And this is mostly because after you take a bomber and throw some upgrades on them they cost to much. People just target them and easily take down this over priced, shoot last, terd. And looking at the price of the punisher I think it will be even worse. And still the ship only has 2 attack power with a higher cost. Other then buying it for its collection of upgrade cards I don't see this ship getting much play. These ships need an ability that allows them to target lock at the start of combat to even make them useful. Or something like dead eye. This is the big flaw in missals that have mostly left them unused. The extra munitions was a step in the right direction but I don't think it was enough.

Then you missed a pretty fun squad. Trust me, Jonus enhanced Cluster Missiles hurt. Plus, there is the nasty change to Proxy Mines.

Yeah... On paper neither the Punisher or K-wing look all that impressive. Which makes me happy.

Of course there could be some nastiness in the ordnance we haven't seen yet.

I think the question is: Will it get played more then bombers? The other good question is: Who the f@#k plays bombers? I think just like the bomber the punisher will be another "bomb". The only time I've seen the bomber used was in swarms with no upgrades on it what so ever. And this is mostly because after you take a bomber and throw some upgrades on them they cost to much. People just target them and easily take down this over priced, shoot last, terd. And looking at the price of the punisher I think it will be even worse. And still the ship only has 2 attack power with a higher cost. Other then buying it for its collection of upgrade cards I don't see this ship getting much play. These ships need an ability that allows them to target lock at the start of combat to even make them useful. Or something like dead eye. This is the big flaw in missals that have mostly left them unused. The extra munitions was a step in the right direction but I don't think it was enough.

Take 3 scimitars with clusters, flechette torp, and seismic charges, and capt. jonus with seismic charges, Flechette torpedoes and determination, 99 points. It is fun! Especially if you drop all the bombs at the same time in a nice wide, but slightly overlapping pattern.

The TIE Punisher is more expensive by 1 point, comparing 'Red Line' to Major Rhymer. So it's not that swarmier is it? Seriously?

It's more like a bomber with more options.

Rhymer pays four points for his ability if you assume the EPT slot costs him one. They seemed to think Range 2 APTs were gamebreaking back then. Jonus pays one point for his ability by comparison.

Redline is 27 points. At 1 point / pilot skill like all the other ships that puts Redline's PS2 cost at 22. Abilities in Alex Davy and Frank Brooks era X-wing usually either cost 1 point and are awesome or are so so but free (Porkins' costs nothing). Redline is pretty good, which means likely one point.

That puts Cutlass Squadron Pilot at 21, a full five points over Scimitar. If Redline's ability is good enough to warrant costing 2 points, then I could see a 20pt Punisher.

At several tournaments there has been succes with 4x bomber squads.

Take 3 scimitars with clusters, flechette torp, and seismic charges, and capt. jonus with seismic charges, Flechette torpedoes and determination, 99 points. It is fun! Especially if you drop all the bombs at the same time in a nice wide, but slightly overlapping pattern.

With Extra Munitions it's so nice you do it twice.

Does the Punisher replace the Bomber

No.

The bomber has value as a cheap, beefy TIE. The punisher will not be able to functionally squeeze the bomber from that slot with its stats and apparent cost.

Yeah... On paper neither the Punisher or K-wing look all that impressive. Which makes me happy.

Of course there could be some nastiness in the ordnance we haven't seen yet.

basically this

remember Wave 7 is centered around ordinance and bombs, and the base profile of the bombers seems incredibly underwhelming (costs still pending)

The basic bomber, if I remember right, has a very good cost/stat ratio. At the projected 21 points, the punisher does not

the rest hinges on the pilots and upgrades that we have yet to see

Could be interesting to see Jonus + Stealth flying next to a couple Punners with (good) munitions. Make your opponent wonder if they should take out the support ship or the nasty attackers.

Alternatively, we could see an interesting Tie Punner support ship at a lower PS than Redline that would make it advantageous to run that ship with a few kitted out Gamma Bombers.

Could be interesting to see Jonus + Stealth flying next to a couple Punners with (good) munitions. Make your opponent wonder if they should take out the support ship or the nasty attackers.

Alternatively, we could see an interesting Tie Punner support ship at a lower PS than Redline that would make it advantageous to run that ship with a few kitted out Gamma Bombers.

Replace Stealth with Lone Wolf and you have a real question for the opponent.

My thought is the TIE Interceptor is, according to the lore, just a faster, more maneuverable, more heavily armed version of the TIE Fighter. Despite these similarities, the two ships in the game play very differently. Based on their track record, I am sure they will make a difference between the Bomber and the Punisher.

WHERE THE FRAK ARE MY BOMBERS WITH EPT SO THEY CAN PTL FOR TWO ACTIONS TO FIRE MISSILES AND THEN GREEN SLOW ROLL??

where. explain to me this mishap.

Jonus will be more useful than ever. Not too sure about the generics. I'll have to see what the ordnance are.

Major Rhymer + Extra Munitions + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Push the Limit + Seismic Charges (39)

Cant see a Punisher beating this.

You are braver than I am. Not spending nearly 40 points on essentially is an X-wing with a hull upgrade. You are going to have to throw in 60 more points of something even scarier.

Redline is one more point than Rhymer, but Rhymer is the most over-costed pilot in the game. I think you pay nearly 4 points for his ability if I remember correctly.

Not the best spend of 40 points admittedly, but certainly not a waste.

Near as nuts guarantee of 5 hits. Not 5 dice, which is definitely nasty but 5 HITS at range two.

There's even a chance you could do it twice.