with a willpower of 5, it says you can lift up to... what was it? 50 kg? and push up to 200. My psyker wants to use a tower shield to push around and slice people in half, I cant wait for him to decide to grab people's guns and beat them to death with it.

Is this really what the power was meant for?

Hitting someone with an object would require a degree of precision, so no.

As it says in the power description, Spectral Hands cannot be used for precision manipulation of objects.

I asked a very similar question before (nobody replied, sob). To me, precision means surgery, or called shots, or picking pockets, or whatever. Possibly it doesn't include firing a gun, but what about guiding a grenade towards a target?

In this case, something as simple as pulling a pin from a grenade is "precise." Throwing a grenade involves aiming. The sort of thing Spectral Hands can do would be knock something over, etc.

Hodgepodge said:

I wasn't referring to pulling the pin, which is specifically referenced in the book as "precise". But guiding an object into the rough vicinity of a target doesn't seem all that precise, considering that you can use spectral hands to "knock over objects, push buttons, pull levers or do any number of other things requiring force". Things considered precise are "typing on a data-slate, pulling the pin from another creature's grenade, pull a trigger and so on".

Knocking over objects suggests the equivalent of a hard shove, but pulling a lever suggests something quite a bit more precise. Is pushing a grenade close enough to a target to damage it really more precise than pulling a lever?

I figure it's something like using your actual hands if you were watching what your hands were doing from 10-50 meters away (and if you couldn't get any tactile response from feeling around). and holding a grenade and walking it into a crowd would be somewhat easy compared to pushing a button or pulling a lever.

oh, I did make him use a weapon skill check to try to hit anything with the cane he grabbed. He missed, but not like a cane would be much of a weapon... though with a strength bonus of 5, it wouldnt really matter that much if he's only using a 1d5 for damage against an unarmored target that's tough enough to need a walking cane.

I would say you could use the power to bludgeon someone with an object, though, based on it's description, I would impart a -20 to the BS test and it would be more like throwing an improvised object at them, not attacking them with a floating sword.

The power, by it's description, seems to be a power of blunt force, force that you really can't moderate all that well. You don't push buttons as much as you mash them, you don't pull a lever as much as you smack it in a direction. From reading over the power, it seems to imply a brute force applied briefly to an object in a certain direction. You can't do fine manipulations because all it is is blunt unmoderated force applied in a specific direction. So, if you can hit something, beat something, or bludgeon something to do something else, then the power will do it. If it takes any more manipulation I would say "no".

I would also go as far as stating that you can't pick up an object and manipulate it in the air. It states that you can "...do any number of things requiring force." As force keeps coming up, actions that are "forceful" seems to be the intent of the power. Thus, picking something up and guiding it's movement would be right out. That has too much fine manipulation of the force to be "forceful." Hurtling, throwing, or shoving something, however, would work. So, the tower shield would be out unless he throws it at people with his power, but no hovering shield of doom. This would also cover the grenade.

Guiding a grenade seems far too subtle for this power. You could bat the grenade, smack the grenade, shove the grenade, but not slightly alter it's course. That seems to fine a manipulation of force which would require being able to control how much force is applied and, again, control seems to be this powers weak-spot. Likewise, hovering the grenade to the enemy would be out as well as, again, there is a fine manipulation of force required to counteract gravity in just the right increment to keep the grenade floating in the right direction at the right speed and not just shooting off in some direction. That's all fine manipulations of the force applied and seems to be against the intent of the power.

In the end, I believe the main thing to ask your self in regards to tis power is "can I achieve this effect through a burst of unmoderated brute force?" If the answer is yes, then you can use the power to do such. If no, then the manipulations to the force needed would be too fine for this power.

This is all, of course, just my take on the power. Take it how you will.

I agree with Graver. It's a brute force, short-term, Push/Pull and not a 'sustained force' type power. The psyker doesn't hold things with the power, he just pushes with force.

Perhaps think like the psyker has a floating boxing glove, one without a separate thumb so it's just one big mitt. The pskyer can 'punch' things with this glove in various directions, to mash buttons or move levers, but he can't carry or hold anything with it.

What about punching the enemies armour ?

The force would be transmitted through the armour like any other blow, so it would be damaging. Maybe argue that the target can't see it coming and/or wasn't expecting it to give you an attack bonus.

I'd consider that doubtful... what you have there would be at most an unarmed blow, which, as we know, deals 1D5-3+Str primitive damage.

Well, even hitting someone with brute telekinetic force requires a WP check to guide that force, implying a degree of precision. Likewise for hitting an enemy, although even hitting their armor probably falls under the category of not affecting living things.

from france

i will say it depends on your creatuvity and the degrees of tolerance from your master. poushing someone of a cliff who weigth les than 50k. yes make someparts of a roof fall on the space the potential victim stood. yes but with no reliabilty. use the same trick to provoque a avalanche yes. shot the doors of sealed room and thene manually remove air yes. pushing a button no. pushing a wild and angry animal on the victim yes. (it s no control jus pushing the creatures on the rigth direction)

so for me it juste a question of creativity.

the 8 spider said:

No, actually.

Spectral Hands has no effect on living matter.

from france

oups didn't remenber that parts .well theyre is always a way. hum if you posses a collector of dark sun "the will and the way" you will find a lot of creative way of killing your felow.