Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

That's because they picked the wrong galaxies fighter. Should have been the Dunelizard.

Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

That's because they picked the wrong galaxies fighter. Should have been the Dunelizard.

Should have been the kimo/krayt and loaded it for bear - that way scum also get a big fookin bomber.

But yes, for a tactical starfighter like the x-wing, the Duny.

My shapeways Kimogila is a thing of such beauty. I really need to find the time to paint it.

Might need to get one, but I'm thinking more "objective" ships first for campaign play.

What's sad is that the Assault Gunboat would have been an equally valid choice for getting Extra Munitions into the game since it did a lot of heavy attack missions. It would have also helped fill the mid-range gap that the Empire has in list building. I suppose it wouldn't have made as much sense to give it that new mine though. The missile boat would just be a weird ship to have in this game though. I wouldn't really care about it at all if its great innovation hadn't been stolen by those filthy Rebel scum.

Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

That's because they picked the wrong galaxies fighter. Should have been the Dunelizard.

Would have been sweet. They could have given it native mangler cannons or something.

I'd laugh if they gave Scum the Authority IRD.

I would absolutely love to see the XG-1 Starwing in this game, it's easily my favourite non-TIE ship in the lore. I completely agree with FTS Gecko, it would be a great way to give the Imps a ship to match the ion BTL-A4 Y-Wing.

It could be the first ship with two Primary attack values; 2 and 2 . Give it ion range out to 3, and both attacks grant Range bonuses. Attack any one or two ships in-arc, and use both weapons in either order.

This I think would make it pretty useful, but not an innately powerful attacker the way the Phantom is, or anything with a Heavy Cannon.

The trick then would be some mods I've been thinking about. I would love to Divert Power, giving up your ion attack to boost your Primary by one attack die (or vice versa!). But I'd also like to come up with a way to Fire-Link Cannons: roll both attacks simultaneously against one ship, who only rolls their normal green dice against it (the part I'm working out would be how to assign damage or cancel dice; I'm thinking a Fire-Link attack would function like an ion attack and ascribe one ion token and maybe two damage if it hits at all? Or maybe four damage minus the defender's agility value....hmmm).

Anyway I would love to introduce the ship to my home games but haven't been able to quite work out how I want it to attack, what it should cost, and what the dial should look like. Definitely thinking somewhere close to Y-Wing for all three though, maybe a little more green on the dial.

Liking those ideas Tsiegtiez, especially a built-in Ion weapon.

I was thinking something similar for the Skipray Blastboat, which canonically was armed with three ion cannons and a laser cannon turret - so an in-game representation could potentially have an Ion Weapon as it's primary and the turret upgrade slot.

Both those ships look like hotwheels.

You mean like this?

I'd buy it.

Boarding rules in EPIC, say.

So no actual reason whatsoever from a standard gameplay point of view, then?

Nope... I don't like stranded standard play that much.

I mean sure, two years ago it was cute to push round half-dozen cool little STAR WARS ships... but I am greedy now!

I need twenty or thirty ships on dat table!

I'd always thought that you could have an ion-proc effect with the gunboat. Say you deal an ion token if you get an uncancelled crit through onto the hull. Just a hit would be good too, but probably too powerful against Ties. That way you don't have to make it take expensive upgrades, but can still bring in some of its flavor from the game and give it a unique ability.

Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

That's because they picked the wrong galaxies fighter. Should have been the Dunelizard.

I'll bet my entire SCUM collection that WE DO GET IT in the next two waves.

In 8 or 9 say... baby!

Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

That's because they picked the wrong galaxies fighter. Should have been the Dunelizard.

I've avoided jumping in on this point because I suspect you're not likely to be persuaded, but here's the problem with the Dunelizard: to me, the model is too close to the Scyk.

The miniatures on the tabletop are communicating important information about the capabilities of the ships in play--the pretty plastic bits give me information about the discrete game elements that are moving around. It's why you can look at a snapshot of a game and, without looking at the pilots and upgrade cards, have a pretty good idea how strong a list is and who's winning or losing.

But if you have two miniatures that look too much like one another, you're distorting that signal. I don't want an X-wing-like ship that can be confused with a TIE-Interceptor-like one, so I think while the Dunelizard might have been a better choice as far as the in-game lore of Galaxies is concerned, the Kihraxz is a better choice for the miniatures game.

Eh i'm not seeing it. It's the huge engine vent that the duny has that makes it look unique. The problem I have with the kihraxz is... ok there are a few.

It's not black sun painted.

It was a rarely used ship, with a relatively uninspired design. Now compared to the TIE Eggbox it's glorious, and to be quite fair on the designers they picked a variant that at least looked different. I would have preferred the iyixien as that reminded me sort of of the cobra mark 3 of elite fame.

The Khirax also was essentially the black sun version of the Syck. 2 guns, fast and agile. Difference is that it traded a larger hitbox for more mass/and engine stat bonuses.

I don't think the Duny looks too much like the syck but I accept that they are from the same family.

The Khirax is just not the ship I would have chosen first.

I've avoided jumping in on this point because I suspect you're not likely to be persuaded, but here's the problem with the Dunelizard: to me, the model is too close to the Scyk.

The miniatures on the tabletop are communicating important information about the capabilities of the ships in play--the pretty plastic bits give me information about the discrete game elements that are moving around. It's why you can look at a snapshot of a game and, without looking at the pilots and upgrade cards, have a pretty good idea how strong a list is and who's winning or losing.

But if you have two miniatures that look too much like one another, you're distorting that signal. I don't want an X-wing-like ship that can be confused with a TIE-Interceptor-like one, so I think while the Dunelizard might have been a better choice as far as the in-game lore of Galaxies is concerned, the Kihraxz is a better choice for the miniatures game.

I find myself agreeing somewhat, however I think theme and backstory has a role to play as well. It's one of those little details that FFG usually gets bang on with X-Wing, but in this instance, it appears as though they've gone in a different direction, and that's not going to please those people who have a fondness for these particular EU designs.

The Hutt Cartels used the M3-A Scyk as their light fighter, the Dunelizard the medium and the Kimoglia was the heavy, and all were produced by MandalMotors.

The Kihraxz, on the other hand, was a light fighter used by the Black Sun, and built by TransGalMeg Industries. It's part of a completely different range and technically would fill a similar role to the Scyk or even the Z95.

The fact that FFG released the Scyk likely got the hopes up for Galaxies fans that the other MandalMotors ships would also be released, so the Kihraxz being released in an unfamiliar role (that overlaps with the Dunelizard), and sporting Hutt Cartel colours doesn't make much sense.

Personally, I've got nothing against the Kihraxz, I think it looks OK, but I can understand how it's unsurprisingly a bit of a disappointment to fans of Star Wars Galaxies (never had the opportunity to play it myself, unfortunately), and I think if the Kihraxz had even been released with the more thematically appropriate Black Sun scheme, it might not have been met with such a negative reaction.

Remember that the Kihraxs is literally one step up from the Z-95 Headhunter. If they gave it any lower health, it'd have the durability of a 12 point ship. Its stats don't rule out the other SWG ships like the Vaksai and the Dunelizard.

I think if the Kihraxz had even been released with the more thematically appropriate Black Sun scheme, it might not have been met with such a negative reaction.

Firstly, FFG has a different Black Sun colour scheme to SWG, rather than white and orange (looks kinda ew in the screenshots I can find) it's stark white with black highlights and big Black Sun logos. Would that work that well on the Kihraxs? I guess they could make it work, but then they're changing its paintjob from SWG anyway. Secondly, Black Sun already have two ships in their paint job: the Z-95 and the StarViper. This brings the Hutt paint job ships up to two.




Unfortunately that picture of the Dunelizard has caused me to notice something about its shape that I cannot unsee.



Henceforth it is the Duneflyingratheadwithwings.

It's even got the little nose and some teeth in its giant grinning mouth.

Disagree with this. The XG-1 had two (2) laser cannons, not four like the TIE Interceptor or X-Wing. It'd be more likely to have 2 firepower as standard.

I swear, if one more person brings up the barrels = k(firepower) falsehood...

Go find your Lambda and count its guns. Then go find your Outrider and compare the size of its guns to the TIE fighter.

And then, and only then, go count the guns on the Assault Gunboat again.

Anything that isn't obviously a secondary weapon, by which I mean the internal guns in the Firespray, the turrets on the HWK and Y-wing and based on some EU knowledge the TIE defender's upper two cannon mounts.

If you're getting a strong correlation your data is probably wrong. Show me your data set and I'll show you where you're going wrong.

EDIT: Mah chart from last time.

With the exception of Glorious B-Wings , the all Mighty TIE Defender has the most guns on it that alone means it should do more damage than any other Small Ship.

Oh dear JBR7, you just said it.

You said words to the effect of Attack Dice = k(gun barrels).

...

...

FIRE LE EXCEL!

Gaze upon that glorious R ² . It goes from 0 to 1 and is a measure of linear correlation. It's gone slightly negative, which means it's actually more likely that more guns means less firepower. If we axe the HWK it only jumps to 0.2996, which is still terrible.

Firepower and attack dice being related? Sure, but gun barrels? Pick up an Outrider. You could fit every gun the phantom has in those guns. Four times.

And I just realised I managed to leave the R ² off of that screenshot back then.

Derp.

But yes, they'll be roughly related because attack dice is a represenation of effective firepower, that goes up with firepower and that goes up with barrels usually. But I see it treated as an inviolate formula so much on these forums and it astounds me. It assumes both that all guns are equal and all platforms for those guns are equal.

Both those ships look like hotwheels.

You mean like this?

I'd buy it.

Boarding rules in EPIC, say.

So no actual reason whatsoever from a standard gameplay point of view, then?

We already have some ships and mechanics that only apply to Epic play, and more on the way.

I've avoided jumping in on this point because I suspect you're not likely to be persuaded, but here's the problem with the Dunelizard: to me, the model is too close to the Scyk.

The miniatures on the tabletop are communicating important information about the capabilities of the ships in play--the pretty plastic bits give me information about the discrete game elements that are moving around. It's why you can look at a snapshot of a game and, without looking at the pilots and upgrade cards, have a pretty good idea how strong a list is and who's winning or losing.

But if you have two miniatures that look too much like one another, you're distorting that signal. I don't want an X-wing-like ship that can be confused with a TIE-Interceptor-like one, so I think while the Dunelizard might have been a better choice as far as the in-game lore of Galaxies is concerned, the Kihraxz is a better choice for the miniatures game.

I find myself agreeing somewhat, however I think theme and backstory has a role to play as well. It's one of those little details that FFG usually gets bang on with X-Wing, but in this instance, it appears as though they've gone in a different direction, and that's not going to please those people who have a fondness for these particular EU designs.

The Hutt Cartels used the M3-A Scyk as their light fighter, the Dunelizard the medium and the Kimoglia was the heavy, and all were produced by MandalMotors.

The Kihraxz, on the other hand, was a light fighter used by the Black Sun, and built by TransGalMeg Industries. It's part of a completely different range and technically would fill a similar role to the Scyk or even the Z95.

The fact that FFG released the Scyk likely got the hopes up for Galaxies fans that the other MandalMotors ships would also be released, so the Kihraxz being released in an unfamiliar role (that overlaps with the Dunelizard), and sporting Hutt Cartel colours doesn't make much sense.

Personally, I've got nothing against the Kihraxz, I think it looks OK, but I can understand how it's unsurprisingly a bit of a disappointment to fans of Star Wars Galaxies (never had the opportunity to play it myself, unfortunately), and I think if the Kihraxz had even been released with the more thematically appropriate Black Sun scheme, it might not have been met with such a negative reaction.

I am with you on all of that, and I knew it before the release too... like many of us. But I have a love for HUTT Cartels and they did use other ships and crossovers and this is fine by me.

There is nothing saying that FFG will not do a repaint in a SCUM Aces set. Until then you can paint it up great in Black Sun. There is a Black Sun ship card in this expansion too.

It is all good... kinda.

I used 19 data points, which ignored the falcon's 2/3 and didn't count wave 8.

Ship name, lasers, attack

Tie fighter, 2, 2

X wing, 2, 3

Y wing, 2, 2

Tie advanced, 2, 2

A wing, 2, 2

Slave 1, 2, 3

Tie interceptor, 4, 3

B wing, 3, 3

Tie bomber, 2, 2

Hawk, 0, 1

Lambda 4, 3

E wing, 3, 3

Tie defender, 4, 3

Z95, 2, w

Tie phantom 5, 4

Decimator, 4, 3

Outrider, 4, 2

Scyk, 2,2

Battle butterfly, 4, 3

Remember that the Kihraxs is literally one step up from the Z-95 Headhunter. If they gave it any lower health, it'd have the durability of a 12 point ship. Its stats don't rule out the other SWG ships like the Vaksai and the Dunelizard.

I think if the Kihraxz had even been released with the more thematically appropriate Black Sun scheme, it might not have been met with such a negative reaction.

Firstly, FFG has a different Black Sun colour scheme to SWG, rather than white and orange (looks kinda ew in the screenshots I can find) it's stark white with black highlights and big Black Sun logos. Would that work that well on the Kihraxs? I guess they could make it work, but then they're changing its paintjob from SWG anyway. Secondly, Black Sun already have two ships in their paint job: the Z-95 and the StarViper. This brings the Hutt paint job ships up to two.

Unfortunately that picture of the Dunelizard has caused me to notice something about its shape that I cannot unsee.

Henceforth it is the Duneflyingratheadwithwings.

It's even got the little nose and some teeth in its giant grinning mouth.

TP... why you do datz?!

Hurray for HUTT Paint-jobs!

The biggest aspect I'd like to see added to the game courtesy of the gunboat is power/energy redirection for small ships. Nothing major, but the K-Wing is basically their first step that way. You have SLAM which throws laser power into the engines, and PS8 Pilot Miranda can directly divert cannon power to shields or vice versa. I think that's freaking cool, and I'd like to see something like it for the gunboat because that ship was so versatile.