Unfortunately that picture of the Dunelizard has caused me to notice something about its shape that I cannot unsee.

Tell me.. you did not.. just post that.

Are you counting lasers or lasers and cannons? There's a very strong correlation between number of lasers and attack value. (.84, but I couldn't do a quadric correlation on my calculator)

I was actually looking at listed weaponry on the Wookieepedia, not "gun barrels". Lambda has 4. X-wing has 4. TIE Interceptor has 4. TIE Defender has 4 (& 2 Ion). B-Wing has a heavy laser cannon and autoblaster (plus 2 Ion cannons).

The XG-1 has 2. (& 2 ion).

There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that - taking ordnance out of the equation - the XG-1 Assault Gunboat was lighter armed than the vast majority of the 3 attack dice ships in the X-Wing miniatures game.

With the aforementioned out-of-place and out-of role Kihraxz being a notable exception, of course.

We already have some ships and mechanics that only apply to Epic play, and more on the way.

We do, but this thread isn't about Epic scale ships in any way shape or form, so it's entirely irrelevant to the topic.

I would have preferred the iyixien as that reminded me sort of of the cobra mark 3 of elite fame.

Anything that resembles a Cobra MkIII would be fine by me - though I tried looking up the iyixien and couldn't find anything.

The Havoc is not entirely dissimilar to the Cobra

I used 19 data points, which ignored the falcon's 2/3 and didn't count wave 8.

Ship name, lasers, attack

Tie fighter, 2, 2

X wing, 2, 3

Y wing, 2, 2

Tie advanced, 2, 2

A wing, 2, 2

Slave 1, 2, 3

Tie interceptor, 4, 3

B wing, 3, 3

Tie bomber, 2, 2

Hawk, 0, 1

Lambda 4, 3

E wing, 3, 3

Tie defender, 4, 3

Z95, 2, w

Tie phantom 5, 4

Decimator, 4, 3

Outrider, 4, 2

Scyk, 2,2

Battle butterfly, 4, 3

I have no idea what the Battle Butterfly is.

The Lambda has eight on its model, the Falcon and Decimator each have eight, the Moldy Crow used to have eight on Wookiee which has since changed to 4.

The XG-1 has 2. (& 2 ion).

There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that - taking ordnance out of the equation - the XG-1 Assault Gunboat was lighter armed than the vast majority of the 3 attack dice ships in the X-Wing miniatures game.

That's fair. I've no issue with "the XG-1's comparably armed to a TIE fighter." I swear I count four on those pictures though (although I guess they're the ion cannons.)

Battle butterfly, 4, 3

I have no idea what the Battle Butterfly is.

StarViper.

I have no idea what the Battle Butterfly is.

The StarViper. Come on TIE Pilot, keep up.

(I hope PewPewPew doesn't mind me reposting his amazing repaint)

The Lambda has eight on its model, the Falcon and Decimator each have eight, the Moldy Crow used to have eight on Wookiee which has since changed to 4.

Again, we're discussing weapons, not gun barrels. The Lambda has four (twin) weapons, the Falcon and Decimator both have two (heavy) weapons.

That's fair. I've no issue with "the XG-1's comparably armed to a TIE fighter." I swear I count four on those pictures though (although I guess they're the ion cannons.)

Yep, the wiki reads "two chin mounted laser cannons, two ion cannons above the cockpit and two general purpose warhead launchers". FractalSponge's XG-1 model has moved the lasers to the wing mounts, it looks like.

Gun barrels is what people were saying before.

If we're talking weapons though, then...

No. Still not buying it. The quad gun on the Falcon and the almost-turbolaser on the Outrider are no way equivalent to the TIE's left pea shooter.

Gun barrels is what people were saying before.

If we're talking weapons though, then...

No. Still not buying it. The quad gun on the Falcon and the almost-turbolaser on the Outrider are no way equivalent to the TIE's left pea shooter.

There's a reason why the Millennium Falcon pilots have improved stats over a stock YT-1300, and the Outrider can mount a Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret position you know.

I'll give you the Outrider, but the Falcon and Decimator? Those are quad guns. They're not equivalent to a single weapon from a TIE fighter.

The Khirax also was essentially the black sun version of the Syck. 2 guns, fast and agile. Difference is that it traded a larger hitbox for more mass/and engine stat bonuses.

One gun, according to the Wookiee . No idea where 3 attack dice came from.

I'll give you the Outrider, but the Falcon and Decimator? Those are quad guns. They're not equivalent to a single weapon from a TIE fighter.

The Stock YT-1300 doesn't have the (illegal) upgrades the Falcon does, and it's attack dice reflect this. Both the Millennium Falcon and the Decimator have higher-than-average attack dice per weapon, which reflects the fact that these weapons are the heavier quad guns you're talking about.

Khiraxz has firepower 3 yet only carried 2 weak ass guns (as it had 40k mass so yeah...). correlation doesn't exactly exist.

Either way, the game needs at least the Assault Gunboat, and I am also fed up of people confusing the two.

THIS SAID: A huge ship sentinel lander would be cool.

That's because they picked the wrong galaxies fighter. Should have been the Dunelizard.

I've avoided jumping in on this point because I suspect you're not likely to be persuaded, but here's the problem with the Dunelizard: to me, the model is too close to the Scyk.

The miniatures on the tabletop are communicating important information about the capabilities of the ships in play--the pretty plastic bits give me information about the discrete game elements that are moving around. It's why you can look at a snapshot of a game and, without looking at the pilots and upgrade cards, have a pretty good idea how strong a list is and who's winning or losing.

But if you have two miniatures that look too much like one another, you're distorting that signal. I don't want an X-wing-like ship that can be confused with a TIE-Interceptor-like one, so I think while the Dunelizard might have been a better choice as far as the in-game lore of Galaxies is concerned, the Kihraxz is a better choice for the miniatures game.

I have both scyks and Dunelizards, and while they do have certain design cues which are similar, I'd view them as being about the same as TIE Interceptors vs TIE advanced. Both have ball cockpits, TIE wings, and their wings are bent. But there are also major differences. I get not wanting all Scum to look the same, but having the Hutt fighters would have given them some cool continuity in my opinion. Play Dunelizards on the table with Scyks, and if you still think they're too similar, let me know.

Remember that the Kihraxs is literally one step up from the Z-95 Headhunter. If they gave it any lower health, it'd have the durability of a 12 point ship. Its stats don't rule out the other SWG ships like the Vaksai and the Dunelizard.

I think if the Kihraxz had even been released with the more thematically appropriate Black Sun scheme, it might not have been met with such a negative reaction.

Firstly, FFG has a different Black Sun colour scheme to SWG, rather than white and orange (looks kinda ew in the screenshots I can find) it's stark white with black highlights and big Black Sun logos. Would that work that well on the Kihraxs? I guess they could make it work, but then they're changing its paintjob from SWG anyway. Secondly, Black Sun already have two ships in their paint job: the Z-95 and the StarViper. This brings the Hutt paint job ships up to two.

Unfortunately that picture of the Dunelizard has caused me to notice something about its shape that I cannot unsee.

Henceforth it is the Duneflyingratheadwithwings.

It's even got the little nose and some teeth in its giant grinning mouth.

I've always viewed the Dunelizard that way. That's why I like it so much! Though, my first thought was more crocodile, I'm not opposed to rat.

Gotta admit, it is a good candidate for the Suhlak treatment.

Do you wanna post the beautiful pic of the white... err. Assault Gunboat?

With the wings folded down like a royal looking Lambda shuttle? That is the best pic ever. If FFG made that I would be really happy.

Any excuse I mean yeah, sure, of course!

Save us FractalSponge, you're our only hope...

I was never a huge fan of the design, but this picture changes that. Looks great. Looks Lambda-esque, and makes me kinda start to want one.

For sure. I've been thinking about it. I wish I could fly my Dunelizards in tournaments with the Kihraxz cards.

The Stock YT-1300 doesn't have the (illegal) upgrades the Falcon does, and it's attack dice reflect this. Both the Millennium Falcon and the Decimator have higher-than-average attack dice per weapon, which reflects the fact that these weapons are the heavier quad guns you're talking about.

I'm referring the Decimator and Falcon. ORS is so infrequently used that if I mean ORS I'll usually name it specifically rather than calling it "falcon".

I want the assult missle boat

I want the assult missle boat

The theoretical XG-2 I had mentioned in that other thread combining the XG-1 and Missile boat into something unique and terrifying.

Why does everyone seem to forget one of the best features of the Missile Boat? It ALSO HAD A TRACTOR BEAM!!

Now that we have the SLAM mechanics introduced, we can really see the Missile Boat shine (provided it's introduced) with the addition of Tractor Beam mechanics..

Why does everyone seem to forget one of the best features of the Missile Boat? It ALSO HAD A TRACTOR BEAM!!

So did the TIE defender and, as everyone forgets, the Firespray.

Why does everyone seem to forget one of the best features of the Missile Boat? It ALSO HAD A TRACTOR BEAM!!

So did the TIE defender and, as everyone forgets, the Firespray.

As well as the more recent Trilon Aggressor (IG2000).

I'll give you the Outrider, but the Falcon and Decimator? Those are quad guns. They're not equivalent to a single weapon from a TIE fighter.

The Stock YT-1300 doesn't have the (illegal) upgrades the Falcon does, and it's attack dice reflect this. Both the Millennium Falcon and the Decimator have higher-than-average attack dice per weapon, which reflects the fact that these weapons are the heavier quad guns you're talking about.

IMHO, that's the biggest issue with including the Falcon and Outrider models in any comparison of guns vs dice.

It's pretty obvious the minis/models we have for those two ships are not of the 'generic' version of the ship, but meant to represent the titled version of them. (IE., those aren't the "2 attack" guns on the Outrider model, those are the HLCs...)

It's pretty obvious the minis/models we have for those two ships are not of the 'generic' version of the ship, but meant to represent the titled version of them. (IE., those aren't the "2 attack" guns on the Outrider model, those are the HLCs...)

Which is fair, for the Outrider. The Lambda, Decimator and Millenium Falcon all match their cards and all have both two quad laser cannons and three attack. That three attack is a represention of the effective firepower of that ship: how much damage it can do and how effectively it can aim. It is not a metric of counting weapons. There's a very loose correlation there, but not causality.

As I've mentioned in another thread somewhere, ship stats are abstract. They are a mix of everything, from fire rate of weapons to power levels to amount of guns shooting dakka to aggregate pilot aiming/maneuvering.

As I've mentioned in another thread somewhere, ship stats are abstract. They are a mix of everything, from fire rate of weapons to power levels to amount of guns shooting dakka to aggregate pilot aiming/maneuvering.

Precisely. Which is why "count the guns" annoys me so disproportionately.