to be a legitimate part of a manuever based games, primary weapon turrets really would have to be re-released with four firing arcs, a turret token, and the need to declare a facing (with the token) after dials are set but before they are revealed

since logistical issues make this impossible, all we can really hope is that ffg will give players some small benefit for not being in arc without being one of very few ship types that can pay for autothrusters. The out of arc benefit of autothrusters would be adequate applied across all ships.

Agreed. For these same reasons, I have been unable to refine an X-Wing "fix" mod I have been toying with in casual games that lets you put your shields "Double Front."

In essence, you would declare your shields to be Double Front (or rear). Place your shiled tokens plus an equal number or "reinforced" shield tokens on your ship. The "reinforce" tokens may be used to cancel hits from that direction only before spending shield tokens. Any attacks from the other direction would hit hull even if you had shields remaining on the other end of the ship. After combat phase, leftover "reinforce" tokens get discarded and shield tokens go back to your pilot card.

Unfortunately, the only way to currently measure things positionally is by in arc or not in arc.

Generics get -1 attack when attacking named pilots and -1 defence when being attacked by named pilots.

Great for evoking a propper Star Wars feel, probably not so good for game balance...

I was thinking of something very similar. I like this mechanic because it promotes using the heroes and gives some expensive ships a chance to be worth the points.

I reword it to say, Unique pilots roll 1 extra attack die when attacking a non-unique and 1 extra defense die when defending against a non-unique.

A very subtle difference but this is why I make it. There is a ton of "tanking" and "turtling" in the game and so I am in favor of anything that gets more damage though. If you have 1 red die vs 1 green die, all other things being equal, the red die will eventually put out more hits than the green die gives evades. So by adding a red and a green vs reducing a red and a green means slightly more damage over the course of a game, and a lot more damage if a squad of names is against a squad of generics.

With these rules, why would you ever run generics? They would be absolute cannon fodder. While maybe thematic, it makes them useless.

I'd give all 2nd tier generics (PS 3-5) an EPT. They are suppose to be your more veteran or elite squadrons. It actually gives you an incentive to take them. How many have seen these squadrons: Red, Onyx, Blackmoon, Shadow, Gray etc. played?

Generics get -1 attack when attacking named pilots and -1 defence when being attacked by named pilots.

Great for evoking a propper Star Wars feel, probably not so good for game balance...

I was thinking of something very similar. I like this mechanic because it promotes using the heroes and gives some expensive ships a chance to be worth the points.

I reword it to say, Unique pilots roll 1 extra attack die when attacking a non-unique and 1 extra defense die when defending against a non-unique.

A very subtle difference but this is why I make it. There is a ton of "tanking" and "turtling" in the game and so I am in favor of anything that gets more damage though. If you have 1 red die vs 1 green die, all other things being equal, the red die will eventually put out more hits than the green die gives evades. So by adding a red and a green vs reducing a red and a green means slightly more damage over the course of a game, and a lot more damage if a squad of names is against a squad of generics.

With these rules, why would you ever run generics? They would be absolute cannon fodder. While maybe thematic, it makes them useless.

I'd give all 2nd tier generics (PS 3-5) an EPT. They are suppose to be your more veteran or elite squadrons. It actually gives you an incentive to take them. How many have seen these squadrons: Red, Onyx, Blackmoon, Shadow, Gray etc. played?

Unfortunately you are probably right. As a game mechanic this would probably be too skewed toward aces. Hmm, maybe FFG thought of this from the very beginning and play testing proved it to be a bad idea. Might work as an EPT though, Ace Pilot, 2pts.

I had an idea for ordinance, and others have touched on what I would do, but I would add a thing or two. I agree with the target lock not going away but only for as long as you keep the said ship with-in your firing arc. As they break arc if it remains that way at clean up you lose target lock. In any dog fighting video game I have ever played with radar enhanced targeting, xwing or otherwise, a target lock is only achieveable through direct line of site to the target with a given time to acquire a shooting solution. I think xwing either combines or confuses a target lock with a target acquisition. You can have the computer fix itself on a single target but that is not a lock, a lock is having them dead to rights in your firing arc.

The other thing I would add is a second targeting token, I have noticed in getting more ships this current token is retardedly over-produced, this second token would represent the target acquisition. You can do this option just like targting works now, it can be done within range at any arc but pretty much means nothing other than its primary function. Its primary function would be to acquire a target lock, as a free action, as long as the said ship is in your firing arc at the beginning of combat. This would allow a set up to gain a lock, a quick option to achieve it and the ability to supplement the firing of said device with manuevers.

My final addition would be what others have said on guranteed damage. There are no glancing blows with a missle, it either hits and goes bang or it misses. If it goes bang it should be a fairly predictable outcome vs the yield of the explosion and if it misses it misses. Maybe have it do a base damage and then a small modifier dice roll to account for closeness of detonation (ie a proton torpedo would do say 1 hit and 1 crit base then roll 2 red dice for added modifier) I think these things would greatly improve ordinance but your mileage may vary.

I like the OP's idea. Would make playing the ships more interactive and fun. I would suggest only 2 positions though:

"Front"

"Back"

I think some sort of token that has "Front" on one side and "Back" on the other would be easy to implement. You would place it by the ship or on the ship's cards.

2 positions also makes it pretty simple to implement, and lowers some of the risk.

On another note, I would lower the cost of turrets if this was implemented to compensate.

For "fixing" primary turrets I always liked to borrow a term from Eve Online "Transversal," meaning if you circle your target as apposed to flying straight at them you are harder to hit.

The rule would have been "If firing outside your primary arc with a turret draw a line from the center of your base to the center of the target base. If the line does not pass through the front or rear sides of the defender, the defender adds one agility die to their defense roll.

I believe auto thrusters cover this OK. I would have expanded auto thrusters to ships with 3 agility instead of boost, since only 4 ships can equip them.

I'd change the dice.

Namely, I'd give the defense dice an extra evade result and call it a "superb evade".

The rule would be, a player can choose to use a superb evade to cancel a crit result, even if there are uncanceled hits remaining. If there are no crits, he can use a superb evade to cancel 1 hit result as normal.

I'd also toy with the thought of reducing the odds of blank rolls by using D20s instead of D8s and making the blanks a smaller likelihood, but still preserve the value of rerolls by having multiple hit results on a single face.

I don't have an exact breakdown on how I'd want that to play out. But hull and shields would also have to increase accordingly.

I'd make all the boosting and barrel rolling be done before the dials are revealed.

No discarding of target locks. As long as you maintain them you can reroll hit and shoot ordinance, it would place a higher value on them and create an emphasis on staying on someone's tail.

to be a legitimate part of a manuever based games, primary weapon turrets really would have to be re-released with four firing arcs, a turret token, and the need to declare a facing (with the token) after dials are set but before they are revealed

It makes a lot more sense to me that the turret be set during the ship's activation phase. Obviously a high PS is going to be better at pointing the right direction.

Of course, this change is based on the assumption that turrets have a slow traversal speed relative to the pace of the action.

Going purely from a fluff perspective, the traversal speed seems to be very high, but the speed of the ship is much slower than strafing fighters.

All that being said, I have no issue with primary turrets as they are now.

I'd change the dice.

Namely, I'd give the defense dice an extra evade result and call it a "superb evade".

The rule would be, a player can choose to use a superb evade to cancel a crit result, even if there are uncanceled hits remaining. If there are no crits, he can use a superb evade to cancel 1 hit result as normal.

I'd also toy with the thought of reducing the odds of blank rolls by using D20s instead of D8s and making the blanks a smaller likelihood, but still preserve the value of rerolls by having multiple hit results on a single face.

I don't have an exact breakdown on how I'd want that to play out. But hull and shields would also have to increase accordingly.

I was under the impression that ffg wanted to focus more on offense to make games go quicker. The auto blaster and tien ruling come to mind with evade tokens counting as dice results therefore invalidated, which I still find distasteful, but it is what it is. I personally like your idea for a fair shake in defense but it would make games drag on trying to pin a 5 agi tie variant and I love my empire.

to be a legitimate part of a manuever based games, primary weapon turrets really would have to be re-released with four firing arcs, a turret token, and the need to declare a facing (with the token) after dials are set but before they are revealed

It makes a lot more sense to me that the turret be set during the ship's activation phase. Obviously a high PS is going to be better at pointing the right direction.

Of course, this change is based on the assumption that turrets have a slow traversal speed relative to the pace of the action.

Going purely from a fluff perspective, the traversal speed seems to be very high, but the speed of the ship is much slower than strafing fighters.

All that being said, I have no issue with primary turrets as they are now.

Just from going on my personal real world experience playing SWG in a manned turrent ship, hitting a moving target with a moving fire base with a limited range of motion is **** hard. Not to mention you have to have amazing communication skills with the pilot to not spoil your shot as they fly as defensively as they can. I can see turrent firing as being way more difficult than ffg makes it.

Everything is more difficult than FFG makes it. That's why the standard firing arc covers 90 degrees of space and elevation is irrelevant.

Generics get -1 attack when attacking named pilots and -1 defence when being attacked by named pilots.

Great for evoking a propper Star Wars feel, probably not so good for game balance...

I was thinking of something very similar. I like this mechanic because it promotes using the heroes and gives some expensive ships a chance to be worth the points.

I reword it to say, Unique pilots roll 1 extra attack die when attacking a non-unique and 1 extra defense die when defending against a non-unique.

A very subtle difference but this is why I make it. There is a ton of "tanking" and "turtling" in the game and so I am in favor of anything that gets more damage though. If you have 1 red die vs 1 green die, all other things being equal, the red die will eventually put out more hits than the green die gives evades. So by adding a red and a green vs reducing a red and a green means slightly more damage over the course of a game, and a lot more damage if a squad of names is against a squad of generics.

With these rules, why would you ever run generics? They would be absolute cannon fodder. While maybe thematic, it makes them useless.

I'd give all 2nd tier generics (PS 3-5) an EPT. They are suppose to be your more veteran or elite squadrons. It actually gives you an incentive to take them. How many have seen these squadrons: Red, Onyx, Blackmoon, Shadow, Gray etc. played?

Unfortunately you are probably right. As a game mechanic this would probably be too skewed toward aces. Hmm, maybe FFG thought of this from the very beginning and play testing proved it to be a bad idea. Might work as an EPT though, Ace Pilot, 2pts.

You mean Predator

With these rules, why would you ever run generics? They would be absolute cannon fodder. While maybe thematic, it makes them useless.

I do freely acknowledge that it would devastate generics (and wreck game balance) but that's pretty much the point of the idea. If you are after a pure Star Wars experience the generics are (for perfectly legitimate game balance & game play reasons) horrendously over powered compared to aces. If generics were weaker all the cool upgrades and ace pilots become much more desirable, which (for me and several people I play with) makes the game feel more authentic.

1. "When attacking with a primary turreted weapon at a target outside of your primary firing arc the defender may choose the [evade] result on 1 die. This result cannot be modified."

2. "All ordinance ignores shields."

It would have been nice to have all ordinance double the amount for each item purchased. That way you get two of each without taking up a slot and costing 2 pts to do it like Extra Munitions does but that ship has sailed. Ordinance is an entire category of cards that don't get used.

To would be interesting to not give a ship back nubs but barrel roll rules. Slide slip.

Missiles and torpedoes shouldn't be instant hit-or-miss. They should be deployed as tokens in the table that chase their targets during X rounds, starting the next round after they were deployed.

They activate last, as if their PS would be 100.

If they overlap any ship's base, they detonate, dealing full damage to the collided object, or depending what the card says.

Each ordnance card type would specify:

- Fuel duration. How many rounds it lasts until it self-destructs when running out of fuel.

- Movement chart, but not dials. The owner of the projectile chooses the maneuver ad hoc.

- They move twice per round.

- They can be shot at, having an agility score, and 1 hit point. If shot at, if the projectile has the attacker on its firing arc, reduce the projectile's agility score by 1. If destroyed, they do not detonate.

For example,

Concussion Missile

2 _\|/_

1 \|/.

Agility 4.

If the missile token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates roll 5 attack dice and cancel two results. The collided ship suffers all damage rolled.

Proton Torpedo

2 |

1 \|/

Agility 3.

If the torpedo token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates roll 6 attack dice and cancel two results. The collided ship suffers all damage rolled.

Heavy Rocket

1 |

Agility 2.

Rockets move only once per round.

If the rocket token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates roll 6 attack dice and cancel two results. Then immediately change all [hit] results for [crit] results. The collided ship suffers all damage rolled.

Mag Pulse Torpedo

2 _ . _

1\|/

Agility 3.

If the torpedo token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates, assign a Weapons Disabled token to all ships at range 1 of the collided ship or obstacle.

Turrets are fine.

I would make each ship expansion have 9 pilots. One for each PS. Waves would duplicate new non restricted upgrades across all factions so at least 1 ship per faction has it. Each expansion has a title card.

Turrets are fine, they counter arc dodgers, as they are meant to.

Chance to hit and cause damage would be altered into two separate steps.

Higher pilot skill ships and named Pilots would both find it easier to hit others and harder to be hit themselves. Having the same chance to hit Wedge as to hit a Rookie X-Wing is ludicrous, for example.

I would go further than just introducing a shield mechanic.

I would like to see an energy management system like in the old X-Wing games.

It wouldbe comparable to Armada just a little simpler.

At the start of a turn or perhaps the start of the activation phase you choose a setup (could be represented by a token or bette an extra secret dial)

You divert energy to either:

Engines - you may either choose to execute a free boost or barrel roll action (if your ship has such an action available), OR any straight/bank maneuver available to your ship becomes a green maneuver for this turn.

Weapons - you gain an extra attack die for your primary weapon this turn.

Shields (only for ships that have shields printed on their card) - You may immediately recover one shield token OR gain one reinforce token fore or aft. This token lasts for one round and automatically cancels one hit from any attack that comes in from that arc. (Fore would be any ship that you have in arc, aft would be any ship out of your front arc)

I know there would be some equipment cards that would be obsolete or needing changes, and there is room for improvement perhaps, but i think it would make the game even more tactical and fun in my opinion.

Missiles and torpedoes shouldn't be instant hit-or-miss. They should be deployed as tokens in the table that chase their targets during X rounds, starting the next round after they were deployed.

They activate last, as if their PS would be 100.

If they overlap any ship's base, they detonate, dealing full damage to the collided object, or depending what the card says.

Each ordnance card type would specify:

- Fuel duration. How many rounds it lasts until it self-destructs when running out of fuel.

- Movement chart, but not dials. The owner of the projectile chooses the maneuver ad hoc.

- They move twice per round.

- They can be shot at, having an agility score, and 1 hit point. If shot at, if the projectile has the attacker on its firing arc, reduce the projectile's agility score by 1. If destroyed, they do not detonate.

For example,

Concussion Missile

2 _\|/_

1 \|/.

Agility 4.

If the missile token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates roll 5 attack dice and cancel two results. The collided ship suffers all damage rolled.

Proton Torpedo

2 |

1 \|/

Agility 3.

If the torpedo token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates roll 6 attack dice and cancel two results. The collided ship suffers all damage rolled.

Heavy Rocket

1 |

Agility 2.

Rockets move only once per round.

If the rocket token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates roll 6 attack dice and cancel two results. Then immediately change all [hit] results for [crit] results. The collided ship suffers all damage rolled.

Mag Pulse Torpedo

2 _ . _

1\|/

Agility 3.

If the torpedo token or its movement template overlap a ship base or an obstacle, it detonates.

When it detonates, assign a Weapons Disabled token to all ships at range 1 of the collided ship or obstacle.

With this, we achieve the following goals:

- Distract: Shooting a missile or a torpedo to an enemy fighter doesn't guarantee that we will deal damage, but probably it guarantees that the enemy fighter will disengage combat for the duration of the projectile's fuel.

- Divert: Incoming projectiles attract fire upon themselves, and away from our valuable craft. A line of bombers would release a salvo of missiles or torpedoes to serve as cover fire for engaging fighters or interceptors.

- Reliable damage: A projectile that hits deals a significant amount of damage, or other fixed effect. No more wasted points on an attacks that misses because of Lady Luck.

By the way i think turrets are absolutely fine like they are.

But i could very well live with a quadrant system. But then turret ships would need to become accordingly cheaper because right now they pay a huge premium cost for their turrets which would probably not be that justified if we had a quadrant token system.

Either that or they should get a firepower boost so that if you guess right you will probably rip **** to pieces!

ACD wouldn't have been put in the game. FCS wouldn't be either. Predator wouldn't work against equal or higher Pilot Skills, outrider title wouldn't exist and/or Dash's pilot ability wouldn't be as super obnoxious. Just the amount of hyper action economy bull needs to calm down, it's getting to the point where the only normal ships you can fly are B Wings and swarms and Interceptors.

As far as core mechanics go, missiles that turn into actual game elements that have their own dials would be sweet.

I would make small and large based ships that used the energy mechanic. Like in the first Starcraft game you had that Protoss building called the shield battery. Maybe it could bank up energy and then trade it in for a shield on an ally or itself, that'd be cool.

Oh, and assault gunboat would have been out instead lf the TIE I'minpain,pleasekillme.

Everyone who wants an updated damage deck is making a big deal out of nothing, but if damaged sensor array wiped out your systems upgrades too that would be cool.

I would like to see a system that allows an advantaged ship (a ship on the enemies six o'clock) to react to the disadvantaged ships dial choice. I can have an X-Wing right behind a Tie fighter and if I guess wrong the Tie is out of arc.

This game kind of mimics dogfighting and I think it would benefit from a tailing rule set.

I would like to see a system that allows an advantaged ship (a ship on the enemies six o'clock) to react to the disadvantaged ships dial choice. I can have an X-Wing right behind a Tie fighter and if I guess wrong the Tie is out of arc.

This game kind of mimics dogfighting and I think it would benefit from a tailing rule set.

That effect is sort of handled by the fact that no maneuver can take a ship out of its former position's arc. If you are behind a ship (and have a higher PS) you can plot a maneuver that will put you in his just vacated position and know that you will have him in arc. Of course, position changing actions blow that right out of the water, but that is the advantage of arc dodgers.