I'll also agree that something needs to be done to about massively pumped throws. Really about the only problem I have with the game atm (beside lack of Veganess.) Even then it's not something that pisses me off too terribly. It does however, make playing a 7hser not named fire hilde impossible I found out last night. Those Bryan Fury throws hurt a real lot.

ROTBI said:

And agreement with previous post - game needs Revenant's Calling to be reprinted. This would be amazing for the meta, especially with lack of draw power on ALL of its symbols. BANG BANG

These sets were designed around certain cards still being in the pool. Would be nice if rev's was still around, but that stupid good block on it would prevent them allowing it back into UFS.. Still... my evil deck needs this card back also a reason to run evil over another symbol lol.

Well darklogos, you're clearly a person of logic, so I really can't dock you any points.

All I know is, I'm not OK with the only 6 checks being characters, and the fact that blocking is almost a convoluted concept in NEWFS. I'd like to think I could block multiple attacks in a turn. This game should play like a fighting game, not MvC2

i say flames of fame and warriors dream would make things more interesting and fast.

Fast? Yeah. Interesting? In a very negative way, yes.

what would you should suggest then, tekken is broken by it's self and i figure with the other two sets would make the game faster. if we really look at it nothin is wrong in those sets. i sorry if i keep talking about it, because right now it's boring and there is less to work with. i have yet to seen a deck built and go wow. astrid is way to crazy with paul support and ivy. i assure you i know what i'm talking about bringing those two sets back into rotation.

Let me explain my spread argument a bit more since it seems unclear. The number spread matters for several reasons. Lets start with the basics.

If I have a spread of numbers and they are 1-3 it means within whatever game mechanic I have that either extreme is benificial or harmful. Now the extreme isn't that bad and the penality is not that bad. Now if I widen the spread 1-4 the mid level gauge 2 and 3. These numbers carry on the weight of being benificial and slightly harmful. Depending on how the number ratings go it is easy to have a mechanic so that success for the player is not that hard no matter what number they get because the odds are in their favor for progression.

Now take in UFS. Control Check hacking ignores this game building principle. Being able to ignore progressive difficulty or being able to modify checks in your favor or against your opponent makes the wide spread a problem. We will see several things. The first is that the base spread 2-5 but (-2)-(+13) is based on having 4 foundations out that make the control check -1 each and having 4 foundations that give a check +2 each. Now when we look at it the middle is around 4-7. Hitting these numbers shouldn't cost you to much. Just for visual help I created a number line below.

-2,-1,0.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11,12,13,

Now when we add in a 6 check card the negative range doesn't change. We increase the range to 14. This shifts the positive cards to have to 5,6,7,8.

How does this translate into gameplay. If you have a deck that has any type of control check modifier you spread your range of your checks. You are well aware that a simple +1 check make a 5 a 6 check and a 6 a 7. To play a functional deck that doesn't have a lot of negative control check hacks you will want to turn over 4,5, and 6 checks. But since 6 checks are rare you are statistically limited your better checks are 4 and 5. Now most decks don't run 6 checks because they are not packing extra character cards this means there best check is a 5. Now deck is hitting a slight balance because they are not able to get extreme with their checks due to their opponents limited hacking. This makes the deck check slightly more positive then its base numbers. So the average check spread is 3-6. This is still pretty good. Now raise in the average check rate up to 6 then you put the odd more in the favor of the drawer because you've bumped his comfortable range up and the hacker has a harder time acting as a counter balance.

Now take away the control check hacking altogther on both sides. Your highest printed value difficulty is 6. To play a 6 check with minumal commital requries an investment of up to 4 cards. That is a bit high. If one has to run 6 checks in their decks then it will be obvious fast that packing 2 checks or not having cchax is to costly. This forces the player to limit the spread. Cards with 2 checks become overlooked and cards with a 3 check or higher get valued. Now the max the cc hacker can get the check is negative one which isn't that hard to recover from. This means the cchacker is annoying but not really stopping the opponent at all. Now give the 3-6 span player cc buff of +2 against an opponent with no cchax. What happens. The odds of them continuing their string of cards is going to be high. If a person plays checks in the following difficulty order they will keep having checks in a resonable range that requires little to no commital. 5,4,3,3,2,2,0. With no cc buff and worse case draw situation of all 3's the player would have had to commit a total of 19 cards. With a CC buff it can be knocked down to 11 cards comitted.

When CC hax reappear I don't see them being equal to cc buff but weaker to keep balance. But by having a small spread 2-5 it makes them powerful and effective because even if a player chooses to avoid 2 checks their is only so much buffing they can do with a 5 check. Now add in 6 checks you will still see 3 checks but you may see setups likes this 3,5,6. People will opt to drop their 4 checks. This makes over 2/3rds of an average players checks 5 or higher. This means if a person has big checks they can get them off more reliably. If they have a bunch of small checks then they can string them together no problem. Risk becomes minimal.

Goo said:

Try not to let boredom get to you. Remember, we have Soul Cal out in less than a month's time. Also, I'm finding some wow decks here and there. Alex's Good King was nifty, I happen to like my dual-symbol Christie, and I'm sure ANY Cervates/Algol deck would be kinda coo.

As far as Flames of Fame-Warrior's Dream goes, believe me, that was on my mind as soon as the announcement was made. But, I'll go over some reasons why it's a bad idea:

1. None of the cards have 5 shurikens, and unless they were reprinted, or treated as 5 stars (even then...), it might be confusing to certain people, and would make distributors have to charge more for it (as opposed to the 20 bucks a box you can get 'em at these days).
2. The direction of NEWFS (no +2 blocks on foundations, no splits, etc etc) isn't understood by Set 12, and would contradict NEWFS' principles and tenants.
3. Here's a brief list of cards that wouldn't be taken too lightly in the current game:

A Giant of a Man/Hulking Brute - Way too easy, free draw, especially for two symbols whom neither have nor need any draw.
An Efficient Method to Slay People - Too easy discard, no.
Aquakinesis - One of the most broken cards in the game, period. Completely unnecessary for this block.
Billiard Player - Free tutoring of any foundation? Dude, no.
Charismatic/The Evil-Doer Destroyer - Free, universal negation (and in Charismatic's case, destruction).
Come Through in the Clinch/Criminal Past - Damage reduction on a stupid big scale.
Crack Counter -> Vaulting/Fire Kick - Too easy draw, and in Fire Kick's case, too easy a kill.
Hugo - Putting aside the fact that he has built in draw, NOBODY wants to take out 40 vitality. Ugh.
Lunar Slash - Way too easy a kill.
Lynx Tail - Hi Hilde!
M. Bison's Fierce Punch/Monster Lariat - What LOOKS like balanced draw is WAY easy to abuse in the format.
Mind Over Matter - Blocking already doesn't exist in this game, so why bring forth a block punisher?
Raising Storm - One card can potentially tap-out a player's entire board. No.
Sardine's Beach Special - Tiger Fury v2.0

Again, yes it'd be nice to have a bigger pool, sure there's some unbalance due to the premature shift, yes a lot of cards from Set 11 are more than primped for NEWFS.

But they'd have to cut a LOT of cards out, and as Horvath himself said, he has another FIght Night-like kit coming out this month, so...

These are all good points, But I fail to see how good stats on a card make it an auto include. You see a card with good stats so now you have to run it? To me that is a weak reason, and that is your fault not the designers. At that rate making cards with good stats becomes difficult and almost impossible. And there are plenty of cards with good stats that are not considered a must have. Swing kick for one, is a great card and I know many people who agree and don't run it. Look , I am now trying to be contrarian, just open minded. I do realize that foundations are different than attacks, but I think that the problem is not a 2-6, 2 or even 1mb, but the power and ability that accompanies the good stats on said card.

The issue to me seems to be the balance between power and ability or consistance and reliability. Also some sort of a true defining line of symbols and what they do could only help to put and keep things in balance. At least in my opinion. If I need a kill card I will look for one and run one I like. If I need a card for speed or anything else to fit the need, the same. I should not expect to see the same amount of damaging kill cards in life as I do in fire or earth by simple definition. However, I do expect to see more multiples or lower difficulty attacks with less damage and more tricks to get the job done just as well and just as symbol specific as the other cards and there symbols.

I don't like sitting across from Astrid,Brian, or any fire character and knowing that at anytime and soon i am dead from one well pumped throw. I also don't like the illusion of 6 hand size with 27 plus vitality character, when they can draw insane amounts of cards that all can kill you with ease. That is the reason 8 hand sizers are gone, or are they? I play a 7- 18 and if I catch a throw I am done even if I block for half. Yo, and that happens quite quickly might I add. The ability to have cards (be that foundation or other wise) with good blocks and good stats does not break this game. It is when those cards have ridiculous abilities and have symbols on said cards that already have more than enough power and ability. Just my opinion.

Peace

Lets look at it this way if we could fill our deck with 6CC then so much other jank could happen and games would be ending faster

If i had 6's id probably just build jin so i could drop momentum gen with say maniacal laughter turn 1 and then turn 2 use jin form blow up my foundations for momentum...stun you out and play up to 3rd rite. All i need is with jins form and flipping a 6 on my last CC to kill you turn 2 pretty much reliably and if i have half of my deck 6cc even if they arent that great i can still do this pretty much half the games i would play

Im not saying i dont want a few 6cc im just saying there shouldnt be many and they shouldnt have good abilities or be useful for much

Hell id even love to see some 1cc like spiral dominance and blazing cadenza or lunar slash with one less multiple maybe...and thats a big maybe

MarcoPulleaux said:

No +2 Blocks huh?

Determined to be the best +2HIGH
Long Standing Rivalry +2HIGH
Determined +2MID
Brazilian Beauty +2HIGH
Hunt for Jin +2LOW
Killer Android +2LOW
Mishima Zaibatsu Leader +2HIGH
Need to Destroy +2LOW
The Ultimate Team +2LOW

But yeah no Criminal Past Plz

I personaly think the game would benefit from a system like in most fighting games were inputting or perhaps blocking wuth a throw could nullify a throw, the biggest killer in the game.

Habeckman said:

Good form friend, good form indeed. I completely agree.

lius said:

The issue is that you can play a 2-6 spread if you want to. But if I build my deck with a 3-6 spread I'm going to be far more consistent then you and my checks and I can check more then you more often. This includes blocking. My risk factor is way lower then yours. Lets say get a bunch of strong cards with 2 checks. If you check them they are in your discard pile. I can get enough damage pumps that running a moderate 3 check attack can be a kill condition. I increase my odds of success by building a deck that hits the extreme of the spreed by playing 3,5,6 checks. Again I am at a huge advantage putting stuff through. With attacks only being a third of my deck odds are in my favor to pass 3-5 cards without any problems where as a 2-6 spread can pass 2-3 cards without problems.

My biggest argument is that the risk involved in the game shouldn't be lowered. That happened before and it allowed craziness.