focus tokens, or stress tokens. Besides you get a number of extras of those in the core set.The TL is the same way.

I don't actually believe you do. The core set only comes with shield, stress and focus tokens for the 3 ships that come in it (it does come with extra evade tokens for some reason and 6 target lock pairs). If you get only the core set and the falcon and equip a ship with shield upgrade you will not have enough shield tokens for tournament legal play.

I also notice that 3 of these ships do not come with ship ID tokens (the numbered tombstones). This is a good thing in my book (got hundreds of the **** things, never use more than 4 sets) but I do believe it is the first time a ship has not included any.

If you get only the core set and the falcon and equip a ship with shield upgrade you will not have enough shield tokens for tournament legal play.

So I looked at the rules again and there is a way around this.

If players run out of any other tokens, they may use a suitable replacement (such as a coin or bead) as a substitute.

So based on that, even in a tournament you'd have to be allowed to use some sort of proxy I'd think, as long as it is the correct size.

focus tokens, or stress tokens. Besides you get a number of extras of those in the core set.The TL is the same way.

I don't actually believe you do. The core set only comes with shield, stress and focus tokens for the 3 ships that come in it (it does come with extra evade tokens for some reason and 6 target lock pairs). If you get only the core set and the falcon and equip a ship with shield upgrade you will not have enough shield tokens for tournament legal play.

The problem in this case is exacerbated by the fact that mechanically-wise, the mine tokens have a specific shape, and dimensions, and thus cannot be proxied or substituted by other game elements.

It is easy to use a "mission" token, or a coin, or something else in place of a missing shield token, since what matters is what it represents, not the token itself.

But in the case of mine tokens, its specific shape and dimensions are an inherent part on how they work. Thus, even if you use 3rd party acrylics or similar replacements, you have to make sure they are exactly the same shape as the ones provided by FFG, which is part of the reason why 3rd party OBSTACLES are not allowed in tournaments.

We keep talking about "mine token", but I honestly doubt that FFG's permission to use 3rd party tokens extends to "Proximity mines", "Conner Nets" and "Cluster mines" since they are nearest to the concept of 'obstacles' than 'tokens'

We keep talking about "mine token", but I honestly doubt that FFG's permission to use 3rd party tokens extends to "Proximity mines", "Conner Nets" and "Cluster mines" since they are nearest to the concept of 'obstacles' than 'tokens'

I think they do. I know Applied Perspectives makes a Prox Mine token, and I've seen people use them. As long as they're the correct shape and size I see no reason why you couldn't use them.

Obstacles by definition are placed during setup. Even though it is called an obstacle token. Bomb is used during the phases and is either removed after activation or static til activated. I, green player, do not see an issue with 3rd party tokens.

As to the amount given in expansions. I do not feel this to be an issue because of how you would need to buy multiple expansions for any other multi card list or buy / trade singles. I plan to buy multiple expan for what I need build lists only to trade out limited / uniques.

Maybe Wave VIII will have more bomb token too along with ordnance fix

We keep talking about "mine token", but I honestly doubt that FFG's permission to use 3rd party tokens extends to "Proximity mines", "Conner Nets" and "Cluster mines" since they are nearest to the concept of 'obstacles' than 'tokens'

I think they do. I know Applied Perspectives makes a Prox Mine token, and I've seen people use them. As long as they're the correct shape and size I see no reason why you couldn't use them.

They do? Are you sure? Because I looked though their site Hoping to get some more and couldn't find it. I scoured their Xwing compatible stuff and it wasn't there. I ended up going to shapeways and making my own. Unfortunately I got the measurements wrong and it came out too small. But since that costs 7 bucks each anything cheaper would be good.

Main issue I see is buying mutiple of the ship and playing with them does not even solve the problem unless you buy a ton of them just for the tokens. I get 2 ships and I could still want to put out 3 mines. This could be a big issue if that card reads that each token is left on the table on its own and people dont hit the middle one. After a while its entirely possable with a full punisher squad with you could end up with all 4 center tokens out on table and not be able to put out a 5th. Normaly I have no issue with how they pack for the most part. I buy mutiple of every ship to date. This one buying 3 or even 4 does not realy resolve the issue fully. I dont think asking them to put 2 copys of a mine that stays out on the table is asking 2 much.

In case anyone hasn't noticed before, in a tournament setting you have to have an official copy of all cards that you are using, including tokens. So you will have to purchase enough of the ships containing said tokens to legally play the game. This is nothing new to the game. To use a card, you have to own/borrow that card, and the same will be true about these bomb tokens. No problem, just a company producing fun toys for us to play with, but also trying to make enough money to be profitable.

I think people are forgetting that companies are making acrylic tokens.. I use 3 prox mine tokens from cog o 2 all the time and even in tournies and no one bats an eye... I do have 4 firesprays and an aggressor, but rarely use the cardboard tokens.. I even use the cog o 2 proton bomb and seismic charges tokens.. so, the tokens won't be an issue once these companies start making them..

Nobody ever made a promise that you could do everything within the realm of possibility with an expansion.

I don't think they ever made a promise like that either. But not being able to use a 2nd bomb that you get with Extra Munitions is not the same thing as not having infinite focus tokens, or stress tokens. Besides you get a number of extras of those in the core set.

The TL is the same way.

So show me an example of an upgrade that comes in a given pack that you can't use fully because you don't have enough tokens between the expansion and the core set... Cluster Mines is persistent based on the article. It says the tokens detonate when a ship's base overlaps it.

It's not a huge issue, but it does make using Extra Munitions more difficult when you're short tokens.

While your point is fair, there aren't any exact matches of this and you could argue I have to stretch a bit to get something in the same vein, I more wanted to just illustrate that lack of components isn't some newly crossed boundary. I can dream up scenarios where Core+expansions does not provide the number of components required. (3x ORS with Weapons Engineer vs. Firespray and TIE escorts).

There are other examples besides that, though not involving tokens, and it is somewhat germane because it involves the same situation of "I can't load out this ship this way because I don't have all the components". TIE Bombers can carry 2 missiles, and yet they only come with 1 missile card.

Most Wanted came with dials and placards for ships that weren't included. You could say these were extras, you could also say they left out the ships necessary to fully play the expansion. (And bless them for doing so, because I couldn't imagine what that would have cost)

Anyways, I'm not saying it isn't irritating. It just isn't a totally new concept. Somewhat new is arguable. I won't belabor the point anymore trying to convince you that it isn't somewhat new, because I can see it both ways as well. I guess I just don't see how it is new enough that we should be shocked by it.

There are other examples besides that, though not involving tokens, and it is somewhat germane because it involves the same situation of "I can't load out this ship this way because I don't have all the components". TIE Bombers can carry 2 missiles, yet they only come with 1 missile card.

That sort of thing isn't at all what people are saying. An accurate analogy would be if a ship came with the proximity mine card but not the token, or if a ship came with 4 pilots but only 1 base insert, or if the phantom didn't come with a cloak token.

Cluster Mines is persistent based on the article. It says the tokens detonate when a ship's base overlaps it.

To go off in a different direction, it is still possible they don't work just like Prox Mines even though that card text is the same. Something could be different on the rules card. Maybe they are still removed at the end of the round doing nothing if they don't hit. (Not likely, they'd be terrible on high PS, and not very good otherwise, though I guess you could still drop them on top of someone that already moved). I can't really dream up something that makes sense, but there might be some difference that makes this less of an issue.

While your point is fair, there aren't any exact matches of this and you could argue I have to stretch a bit to get something in the same vein , I more wanted to just illustrate that lack of components isn't some newly crossed boundary. I can dream up scenarios where Core+expansions does not provide the number of components required. (3x ORS with Weapons Engineer vs. Firespray and TIE escorts).

There are other examples besides that, though not involving tokens, and it is somewhat germane because it involves the same situation of "I can't load out this ship this way because I don't have all the components". TIE Bombers can carry 2 missiles, yet they only come with 1 missile card.

That sort of thing isn't at all what people are saying. An accurate analogy would be if a ship came with the proximity mine card but not the token, or if a ship came with 4 pilots but only 1 base insert, or if the phantom didn't come with a cloak token.

I think I acknowledged that there is no exact correlation. (There is another one in Wave 7 that nobody seems to have an issue with, but I won't claim that one) But your analogies aren't fair either. The ship comes with 1 Cluster Mine card, and 1 set of Cluster Mine tokens. What I'm partially pointing to is that the expansions are set up so that you are able to play each card within it, but not in all its possible iterations.

If FFG released a bomb/mine pack for a few bucks ... would people buy it or would there be outrage as it is expected (based on FFG's prior model of including all necessary components) that these already be included?

Example, the bomb/mines pack is a few sheets of card with extra tokens for the appropriate bombs and mines for $1.95.

To be fair, there have been occasions when not everything was included. The millenium falcon comes with a shield upgrade card, but does not include enough shield tokens for an upgraded falcon.

Really (really) minor issue, but it does show that this is not totally unprecedented.

Not really since the base game comes with shield tokens. This issue VanorDM and other are talking about is truly unprecedented.

Not really since the base game comes with shield tokens. This issue VanorDM and other are talking about is truly unprecedented.

Geez, how many times do I have to say this.

The base game comes with 2 shield tokens. Just enough for the x-wing. The YT-1300 pack comes with 5 shield tokens, just enough for a naked falcon, it also comes with a shield upgrade card. If all you have is the core set and the falcon and you run both the x-wing and the falcon and put shield upgrade on one of them you need 8 shield tokens but only have 7.

Yes, it is a very very very minor issue, much smaller than this one (which is pretty small to begin with), but it does show that this issue is not entirely unprecedented.

Now, cue all the people who are STILL not going to actually READ the post and who are going to claim that I am complaining about the lack of a shield token (hint, I'm not).