Hi all, this is essentially a long range, low fighter count build that is designed to match the imperials head on.... Not the best rebel strat but the imperials won't expect it

Assault frigate MKII B

Garm Bel Iblis

Total 97

Assault frigate MKII B

Defence liason

X17 Turbolasers

Total 81

Assault frigate MKII B

Defence liason

X17 Turbolasers

Total 81

2 X-wing squadrons

Total 26

1 B-wing squadron

Total 26

Overall: 299

Objectives: Fleet ambush/Hyperspace assault, Minefields, Advanced gunnery.

Essentially, the squadrons are flexible and I choose the X wing/ B wing combo for survivability and either protecting the frigates or doing a solo run with the help of one Assault frigate as squadron commander. The list is capped at 299 to allow aggresiveness. Objectives have been selected to prioritise the fleets general stance (Long range) with the exception of Fleet ambush. It would be incredibly risky if the opponent uses 3 ships, of which 2 of them are capitals but the payoff may be worth it. Alternatively, a standard hyperspace assault can benefit the situation since an ambush fleet of 1 MKII frigate, 2 X wings and 1 B wing squadron is nothing to scoff at.

X17 turbolasers are there to hammer a single point and was chosen over advanced armamaments but can be swapped out at the cost of lower tier squadrons. Defence liason is there in concert with Garm's ability for a free token at the start of the game. This is so that while I am spamming concentrate firepower and squadrons (for one frigate if need be) there will be a chance to use an emergency repair/ maneuver command at full. Again, this can be used on the 5th round.

The list should aim to combat the opponent at long range so I'd keep a solid 2-3 on the maneuver and try to move in a straight line (think akbar slash) since the broadsides are absolutely devastating and can be even better with advanced armaments at the cost of redirect problems against imperials. I like the Frigates general survivability and with the defence liason, they may actually hold out long enough due to the nice complement of shields available to be redirected.

I understand running a low fighter count and strategy that involves a headon collision with imps is a no-no by most rebels but I am keen to try the dolphin brigade.

the cool thing about AFs is that you don't need to go head on, you go cruising along slinging broadsides (which is why people are excited for it, its a rebel ship with an easy to understand method of engaging the Victory whereas the Neb has giant flimsy sides that makes it want to go head-to-head with the most terrifying arc in the game till Wave 2)

I think you should really focus on an initiative bid, though. If the imperials force you to choose an objective, you will be at a great disadvantage even with AFs

I would drop the B to a Y for that bid, imo, until we figure out how many points people will be bidding when Wave 1 hits. The Y is obviously not nearly as sexy, but being able to play to your objectives will give the list (which is a skew and perhaps not suited to a wide variety of engagements) the ability to play to its advantages.

the cool thing about AFs is that you don't need to go head on, you go cruising along slinging broadsides (which is why people are excited for it, its a rebel ship with an easy to understand method of engaging the Victory whereas the Neb has giant flimsy sides that makes it want to go head-to-head with the most terrifying arc in the game till Wave 2)

I think you should really focus on an initiative bid, though. If the imperials force you to choose an objective, you will be at a great disadvantage even with AFs

I would drop the B to a Y for that bid, imo, until we figure out how many points people will be bidding when Wave 1 hits. The Y is obviously not nearly as sexy, but being able to play to your objectives will give the list (which is a skew and perhaps not suited to a wide variety of engagements) the ability to play to its advantages.

From what was shown Victory II is better at medium range than Imperial (3red 2 blue 3black) and no smart rebel commander owuld get into close range anyway

I definitely want to give this list a shot and some variations of it.

My thought is also about the fighters... I'm guessing here, because I have not yet proxied A-wings into a game, but a squadron-light list with nothing to escort feels like a perfect home for As. Dropping the fighter compliment to A-wings also frees up 8 points. My feeling is that if your opponent goes fighter heavy, three squadrons won't last that long and the MkIIB can't help them clear the danger with only 1 blue in anti-squadron armament. So my fighters seem to either be a speed bump or bodyguards against bombers. I want something that can keep enemies engaged - so no Ys, something fast enough to react to shifting bomber priorities after deployment, and cost effective.

Going with A-wings, you would be free to swap to enhanced armament on both MkIIs, and I've opted for Mon Mothma to try to get all the mileage I can out of that evade. If you're successful at the long range broadsides with this list, cancelling an attack die in the case that enemies venture a little too close could be very valuable.

I've arrived at the following variation:

Assault Frigate MkIIB w/ Mon Mothma - 102pts
Assault Frigate MkIIB w/ Enhanced Armament - 82pts

Assault Frigate MkIIB w/ Enhanced Armament - 82pts

A-wing Squadron x3 - 33pts

Total: 299pts

Who knows lol, I'm excited to run the assault frigates through their paces. and now I'm probably going to end up investing in a third. So... thanks guys!

Hi all, Thanks for the replies!

Yes, the reason I'm liking the AF alot more is the fact that they don't break like a toothpick when prodded at the side. I was actually thinking of dropping all fighters in favor of more upgrades, guns and everything you can throw on 3 capitals. Something I was also toying with looked like this. Looking at the expansion packs, there seems to be some cards that weren't spoiled yet so there may be more options open when Wave 1 finally hits.

Anyway, the no fighter list would look something along these lines.

Assault Frigate MKII A

Garm

Defence liason

Enhanced armaments

Total 119

Assault Frigate MKII A

Defence liason

Enhanced armaments

Total 94

Assault Frigate MKII B

Defence liason

Enhanced armaments

Total 85

It is more likely than not a variant of Ducksong's list. I'd figure if the opponent goes fighter heavy, I'd be up for throwing 10 or so points to buy that 2nd squadron dice than buy a separate bomber/ AA fighter. I really can't decide between enhanced armaments and X17s since they both fill a rather good void in their own way. After facing VSDs, you'd probably manage to throw maybe 1 accuracy to stop the brace but that leaves the annoying redirect which really hurts since you can't get through the VSD's thick shields from the front. In that respect, the X17s may seem like a better idea if you can get a broadside + frontal attack since you'd know something will go through. This can potentially be better than having the extra red dice since getting a single critical on a ship is most of the time quite devastating and the opponent usually has to use an engineering to get it cleared asap.

Somehow, I'd wager the defence liason when paired with garm gives you some pretty tactical options and allows you to spam concentrate fire every round without having to worry about engineering or maneuver until you need it. You can start round 1 with conc. Firepower, keep that token if not in use and save it for later in addition to your free token at the start. This is essentially so that your frigates don't feel so sluggish.

How do you guys feel about fighter complements? Full on or not at all?

the cool thing about AFs is that you don't need to go head on, you go cruising along slinging broadsides (which is why people are excited for it, its a rebel ship with an easy to understand method of engaging the Victory whereas the Neb has giant flimsy sides that makes it want to go head-to-head with the most terrifying arc in the game till Wave 2)

I think you should really focus on an initiative bid, though. If the imperials force you to choose an objective, you will be at a great disadvantage even with AFs

I would drop the B to a Y for that bid, imo, until we figure out how many points people will be bidding when Wave 1 hits. The Y is obviously not nearly as sexy, but being able to play to your objectives will give the list (which is a skew and perhaps not suited to a wide variety of engagements) the ability to play to its advantages.

I don't think Imperials are so much the problem, as they tend to bring the same types of objectives. The issue would be a rebel mirror match who brings things like intel sweep and superior positions.

I agree though that some attempt to win the points bid should be made. Also, be wary of creating a fleet that does amazing at one thing, but terrible at everything else. When I build fleets, even if I have 2 of the same ship, the upgrades are totally different in order to provide options.

I think you are going to need to be really bold with this list (to get multiple arcs firing) otherwise you are just trading three red dice a turn with victories. While the AF2 has an evade token it is also weaker than the victory……they should end up trading pretty equally at long range. Unfortunately the victories perform better at optimal ranges with single arcs……thus to get an advantage the rebels need to be firing from multiple arcs. Even combining the broadsides and front/rear the AF2b only equals the victory in total dice, but those dice are weaker. Given that its quite hard to get dual arc shots at long range you would want to get very good at positioning to make the most of this.

You might be better off running two AF2’s with gunnery teams and a salvation Neb-B. This allows you to throw more dice (as long as the AF2’ have a couple of targets each) more easily, and focus your movement on maintaining a safe position against the enemy rather than running the gauntlet of close range front arcs to try and get an advantage. In this case the victories either end up chasing the AF2’s and the salvation can just sit behind them shooting away happily……or they split their fleet…..and then your laughing.

I think A-wings might suit the fleet better as well. The AF2b has weak AA attacks, and once wave one arrives you will need to deal with enemy bomber wings. Two x-wings and a B aren’t going to last long at all against even a modest fighter force (imperials can comfortably field 5-7 fighters and 4-6 bombers in a double victory fleet). The AF2 is pretty fast, so you don’t have to wipe all the bombers out, you just have to snarl them up for long enough for the AF2’s to escape.

You could try something like:

Bel Iblis

AF2b (gunnery team, X17 lasers)

AF2b (gunnery team, X17 lasers)

Neb-B support (salvation)

4 A-wings

I get what you mean with the varied ship build options but I just like the regimented "standard equipment" style. That is just me though.

As for Boothy's list, I have been keen on putting gunnery teams on the AF2bs but my worry is that they will be out of range of another target which makes the gunnery team useless in most cases. I posted a 5 Nebulon build a while back that emphasized a good alpha strike but as I keep looking back, that 1 shield on the side sort of breaks the camels back. However, using it as a support ship (which it is actually) to put 3 dice downrange and force the opponent to deal with it or the AS2bs could prove beneficial. On the other hand, dropping an A wing for another AF2b stock adds quite a bit of force on the table compared to a single Neb-B with an enhanced front arc.

I guess we will have to wait until Wave 1 actually hits to see how much people are willing to bit for intiative and what ships dominate the scene. I do agree that the AF2b may not stand up to the VSD II class of ships with their medium range superiority but having 3 AF2bs while the imps can only afford 2 VSD IIs will give the rebs an advantage in lasting firepower. Against rebels however, a 3 AF2b or 2 AF2b and neb-B list should be able to keep up with all but the fastest corvettes but with the huge amount of shields on the AF2b, I'm sure it can take a beating.

If you want to play balls to the wall no fighters something like this could be fun...

And home one comes with the "Slaved Turrets" upgrade card that must do something funky as the Wave 2 article seems to imply they help a broadside fleet...

Of course you could play even harder, Start the game at speed 3 and (Akbar) Slash past the scary front arcs of the Imperials and then add in some nav tokens for the first couple of turns to make sure you get the best position.

I was thinking of doing the Akbar slash with 3 AF2bs seeing as how they could survive the counter bombardment. I think the MC80 will be the right ship for that case depending on what shields configuration we get. Compared to the Mon cal cruisers, I'd still like to use the AF2bs since they probably retain the best guns in the rebel fleet until something else comes along.

The two AF2bs and 2 corvette balls to the wall list is definitely going to turn heads but I can't help feeling you'd be blocking your own ships if you try and squeeze the corvettes on the weak arcs of the VSDs. Worse, 1 wrong placement and you eat the full battery of both front and side arcs of the VSDs. In that sense, I thought it would be safer to just use the 3 AF2bs or AF2bs with nebs to stay the hell away from Imp ships while trading long range shots.

On the other hand, having the overload pulse and Dodonna's pride in concert with 2 AF2bs will probaly wreck a VSD in a single round of shooting if you get something like Shield failure as the first damage card. Of course, if you don't, there is a good chance the corvettes will be incredibly crippled after the suicide run. I will definitely attempt a list like that nonetheless since it looks like a wild ride.

I wonder if the meta will shift drastically to squadrons after Wave 2 hits, considering the ISD is a really tough nut to crack with rebel ships and the fact that hero squadrons like Han/Boba/etc can potentially decimate a small ship.

Anyway, one thing at a time my padawans.

As for Boothy's list, I have been keen on putting gunnery teams on the AF2bs but my worry is that they will be out of range of another target which makes the gunnery team useless in most cases.

If I understand correctly, gunnery team can also be used to let you fire off a full broadside at a ship and then fire off anti-squadron attacks at squadrons in that same arc

other than that, there's no more reliable way to get more than one ship in range of the same arc than with red dice

still, no idea if they're worth it at this juncture

Yeah, that would be the best way to utilize the gunnery team. It would be better if we ran the gunnery team with the AF2a but then it would be too expensive to put 3 on the table.

I'm basing all the AF2b lists against this hypothetical Imp list which should arguably be the hardest to bring down by way of ship to ship combat.

VSD I

Admiral Motti

Defence liason

VSD I

Defence liason

VSD I

Defence liason

corrupter

Tie squadon x 2

Tie bomber x 3

Alternatively, the Imp player could just replace the bombers and corrupter with 4 additional Tie squadrons for a total of 6. In this scenario, it would probably be better if AF2bs invested in A-wings as most 3 VSD fleets may be running bombers. Ducksong is pretty on the ball with his AF2b list but what do you guys think would be better? Squadrons or anti-squadron dice?

This is one of my favorite threads in this forum by far, keep it up gentlemen!

So far all the talk has been Imp vs Rebs so its good to see some mirror theory.

Hiya, back with a variant theory list!

AF2b

Garm

A wing

X wing

X wing

AF2b

A wing

X wing

Luke X wing

Corvette B

Dodonna's pride

Total 295 points, 5 points bid for initiative. Without the defence or weapon liason, you will have to plan a bit more than usual but the extra 6 pts was essentially used for initiative. Comments about tackling Imps and Rebs below.

Against Imps,

Naked AF2bs are there to be the meat of the fight, bringing hopefully enough guns to bear while the Corvette B tries to get behind the opponent ships. Essentially, the order of activation matters here and the Corvette B should always play first whilst the AF2bs play second/third. The plan this way is to keep the opponent's eyes on the Corvette rather than the AF2bs. Also, you will have to flank aggresively, so don't be afraid to go at speed. If the opponent has a fast mover and demolisher gladiator, the corvette plays last because the attack-after-move special of the gladiator can probably 1 shot the corvette. Fighter squadrons are there to prevent the definitely lethal TIE bomber/ rhymer range 2 combo. You'd want to commit the X wings first to deal an alpha followed by the A wing last as a finisher to any squadron. The list contains a good number of AA fighters to deal with bombers and act as pseudo bombers with good damage coming from all squadrons. Luke was included for 2 purposes. First, you can slingshot him against a capital and get a lucky crit which will probably take something out or keep him for close range support. Either way, short range fast movers may not have enough squadron backup that a crit may cause some serious problems.

Against Rebs,

Chances are, you'd be facing something similar so it would be recommended that you keep the fleet tight and spend the first 2 turns watching enemy movement. Rebels like to move and flank with broadsides but that is because Imp ships usually can't move fast enough to give chase. I'd wager a tight formation initially which punches through the middle followed by a turn may be a decent way to throw reb players a little off.

Then again, this is all theorycraft and will probably not work in reality so take it with tonnes of salt.

Actually, I'm just going to throw this out here for discussion.

Neb-B support

Garm

Neb-B support

Salvation

Neb-B support

Redemption

Neb-B support

Neb-B support

There are no tactics with this, just 5 front facing, shoulder to shoulder (so that any shots made on the sides are obstructed) gun frigates. I'm thinking just load em up with Concentrate fire for a 4 red dice frontal, giving 20 red dice if all are in range with re-roll for the 1st attack (Garms command). After that, just sit around with engineering repairing everything or keep throwing concentrate fire until you or the opponent loses... or smash the ships into the opponent.

I've posted a similar list to this before but it wasn't legal.

It would be good to see a spam list like that in practice. My feeling is that it might work initially, but it has no options (the Neb is not a fantastically flexible ship!) so once an opponent works it out adapting in return will be very hard.

For example would it beat a triple victory list with liberal application of gunnery teams and enhanced armament? (Exact numbers of each depending on numbers of each class of victory). Those victories would then put out somewhere between 18-36 attack dice before concentrated fire depending on exact ranges and arcs in range. If the nebs turn away they lose all their fire power and durability, but if they fly in its going to be a complete blood bath (I’m not sure who comes out on top, it will depend on speeds, commands, and ranges of multiple targets).

The rebels could pull a similar trick with three AF2b’s with enhanced armament and gunnery teams (including a paragon)…..that’s 32 dice a turn at medium range…..and they can spend their time trying to flank the nebs without having to worry too much about ranges at all. By contrast the nebs have to focus on not letting the AF’s shoot their flanks, not letting the AF’s escape their front arcs, and not crashing into one another while trying to turn the whole cluster at once.

I think 6-7 CR90’s would probably do better due to a more flexible distribution of shields and fire power. That way you can get where your opponent doesn’t want you without compromising your own fire power as much (it’s also a bit easier to run away from bombers!)

While I’m not a fan of the five neb build I do like the AF one directly above. Looks like a really flexible list. If you want to play cautiously you can, if you want to dive head first into the fray with broadsides blazing and bombers screaming in you can do that to. The squadrons are all flexible so you should be able to defend against enemy bombers and punish their capitals as is appropriate at any given time. It doesn’t look to have any super wiz-bang flashy tricks/synergies, just a good solid fleet with lots of options.

True on the Neb b list weakness. Anything that hits its side will probably kill it. The idea for that list was just to kill at least 1 enemy ship with its opening salvo. Granted, if you take opening salvo with this list in the initiative bid, you have an extra 2 red dice per Neb b. The alpha with conc. fire and conc. fire token from garm would make it 3+2+1 and a reroll per ship during the initial joust of the match. Can't say if it's enough to kill something but it may just do the trick. Alternatively, a full on corvette list will be quite similar.

Corvette A

Dodonna

Corvette A

Corvette A

Corvette A

Corvette A

Corvette B

Dodonna's pride

E-countermeasures

total: 294 which may be good enough for an initiative bid. If you can drag opening salvo into the picture, you can manage 2+2+1 for each ship for a total of 25 red dice and dodonna's pride having a better chance of scoring the hit.

I might stick with the AF2b list but I'd love to try either the neb or corvette spam list to see the results.

All your builds are missing the Paragon title, which makes for an incredibly nasty AFII. On your second shot you can add Black dice at R3 (and concentrate fire for a second). At R3 You'll be broadsiding with 3 Red +2 Black Dice with an evade.

All the Liason upgrades are kind of a waste since they only reward poor advance planning. Once you're good at this game they won't be necessary.

Intelligence Agent is one of the strongest cards on the AF since accuracy will be scarce. Force him to discard his brace and redirect and the VSD will go down very quickly.

All your builds are missing the Paragon title, which makes for an incredibly nasty AFII. On your second shot you can add Black dice at R3 (and concentrate fire for a second). At R3 You'll be broadsiding with 3 Red +2 Black Dice with an evade.

All the Liason upgrades are kind of a waste since they only reward poor advance planning. Once you're good at this game they won't be necessary.

Intelligence Agent is one of the strongest cards on the AF since accuracy will be scarce. Force him to discard his brace and redirect and the VSD will go down very quickly.

Doesn't Paragon only work if you manage to bring two arcs on the same ship from the same MKII?

All your builds are missing the Paragon title, which makes for an incredibly nasty AFII. On your second shot you can add Black dice at R3 (and concentrate fire for a second). At R3 You'll be broadsiding with 3 Red +2 Black Dice with an evade.

All the Liason upgrades are kind of a waste since they only reward poor advance planning. Once you're good at this game they won't be necessary.

Intelligence Agent is one of the strongest cards on the AF since accuracy will be scarce. Force him to discard his brace and redirect and the VSD will go down very quickly.

Doesn't Paragon only work if you manage to bring two arcs on the same ship from the same MKII?

that's what we said

"on your second shot"

you fling off your front arc and then BAM, you hit the victory like ye olde spanish galleon

All your builds are missing the Paragon title, which makes for an incredibly nasty AFII. On your second shot you can add Black dice at R3 (and concentrate fire for a second). At R3 You'll be broadsiding with 3 Red +2 Black Dice with an evade.

All the Liason upgrades are kind of a waste since they only reward poor advance planning. Once you're good at this game they won't be necessary.

Intelligence Agent is one of the strongest cards on the AF since accuracy will be scarce. Force him to discard his brace and redirect and the VSD will go down very quickly.

Doesn't Paragon only work if you manage to bring two arcs on the same ship from the same MKII?

that's what we said

"on your second shot"

you fling off your front arc and then BAM, you hit the victory like ye olde spanish galleon

I just wanted to make sure because I'm still trying to decide if I want to somehow cram a Paragon in my list. It's just that the MKII has almost the same arc as the Neb (at least where the front and sides are concerned) which make it a little bit tougher to bring the two sides to bear on a platform that's less maneuverable than the corvette.

All your builds are missing the Paragon title, which makes for an incredibly nasty AFII. On your second shot you can add Black dice at R3 (and concentrate fire for a second). At R3 You'll be broadsiding with 3 Red +2 Black Dice with an evade.

All the Liason upgrades are kind of a waste since they only reward poor advance planning. Once you're good at this game they won't be necessary.

Intelligence Agent is one of the strongest cards on the AF since accuracy will be scarce. Force him to discard his brace and redirect and the VSD will go down very quickly.

Doesn't Paragon only work if you manage to bring two arcs on the same ship from the same MKII?

that's what we said

"on your second shot"

you fling off your front arc and then BAM, you hit the victory like ye olde spanish galleon

I just wanted to make sure because I'm still trying to decide if I want to somehow cram a Paragon in my list. It's just that the MKII has almost the same arc as the Neb (at least where the front and sides are concerned) which make it a little bit tougher to bring the two sides to bear on a platform that's less maneuverable than the corvette.

Engine techs make pulling off this shot trivial. Otherwise, yeah, it's a bit tricky. However, paragon has added downside that, after shooting, you are now pointing more towards a potentially deadly ship than I usually feel comfortable.

Unless you used your rear arc to make the first or second shot while moving away. I kinda like this idea actually . . .