I’ll state first that I love the game and will continue to play it regardless. I have noticed that if you don’t use ordinance than every thing is fine because as a weapon system it’s not very effective and you live longer. If you use ordinance than they are not keeping you competitive.

I understand the FFG should and must keep game balance in mind. And I don’t believe that the One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance is going to make the game fun for every one. But the problem with ordinance is simple.

1) it’s to cumbersome to use, get a target lock, and if you move first you normal don’t

2) It’s costs to much for what you get. 4 points for one attack that normally misses.

3) It’s not very effective. Even if you hit, the damage is so low it’s not worth the points you spend.

To prove my point, does anyone know any body that has won a tournament be using ordinance, (Torpedoes and Missiles!) If the answer is “NO”, than my points are valid. If the answer is, “Yes” than I am wrong. So has anyone won a tournament using ordinance as their primary weapon system, such as on bombers or Y-Wings?

I was at a local 20+ player tourney last year that was won by a 3 ship imperial list that had Major Rhymer. I can remember the rest of the list, though.

At last year's SCs, there were at least two players in Michigan running 3x Bombers with a TIE fighter escort. One of them won two tourneys, IIRC.

I just want to fill the field with mines.

can't touch this (100/100)

=========================

TIE Punisher: "Redline" (27 + 15)

+ Extra Munitions (2)

+ Proximity Mines (3)

+ Cluster Mines (4)

+ Accuracy Corrector (3)

+ Experimental Interface (3)

VT-49 Decimator: Captain Oicunn (42 + 16)

+ Determination (1)

+ Extra Munitions (2)

+ Cluster Mines (4)

+ Moff Jerjerrod (2)

+ Rebel captive (3)

+ Dauntless (2)

+ Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

I'm looking at:

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic, and EM

My thought would be something more like this:

Captain Jonus:

Extra Munitions

Determination

Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot:

Extra Munitions

Cluster Missiles

Proximity Mines

Scimitar Squadron Pilot:

Extra Munitions

Cluster Missiles

Proximity Mines

"Howlrunner" (or Mauler Mithel)

Squad Leader

Stealth Device

Lost a bomber, added an option to allow my remaining Bombers to be able to get their target locks late in the activation phase OR to drop Proximity Mines on the head of someone who tries to get too close behind them. Not super amazing, but in a high Decimator and Falcon meta you're looking to lay out some serious hurt. Might also be fun to trying something similar to this with old "Ion Pulse+APT" combination, as the two Scimitars could do the combo twice, meaning if played right you've got four opportunities in the game to drop an APT on someone's head. Would require dropping a few upgrades elsewhere, sadly. Also need to toy around now with Major Rhymer, possibly teamed with Jendon (with a Flechette Cannon!) and either a pair of TIEs or a decked out Soontir Fel... catch a ship with both the IPM and the Flechette Cannon, and life suddenly gets really bad for them.

I'm looking forward to messing around with all my TIE Bombers, regardless of how much more effective they might actually be. Real winners are still going to be bombs, most likely, but no complaints from me on that front.

My thoughts about the “Extra Munitions” upgrade.

It’s an all right card, but does really help. I personally run my bombers with only one ordinance per bomber. So I would have to give up a Tie-Bomber to use the card. (And three Tie-Bombers are not a winning combination.)

I understand the FFG should and must keep game balance in mind. And I don’t believe that the One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance is going to make the game fun for every one.

I personally don’t believe that fantasy flight will ever fix this problem to everyone’s satisfaction. I could be wrong.

If I could every talk to the X-Wing game designers, I would suggest two changes, (keeping in mind game balance must come first. And no One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance.)

I would suggest the Target locks happen at the beginning of the combat phase and takes no action. It only takes half a millisecond to lock on target using today’s technology.

Admit that they ordinance isn’t working, fix the problem and just re-issue corrected cards so every one can just move on! Ordinance is just not effective!

JMHO

Ordnance, not ordinance.

Ordinance is a type of law. Ordnance relates to firepower.

My thoughts about the “Extra Munitions” upgrade.

It’s an all right card, but does really help. I personally run my bombers with only one ordinance per bomber. So I would have to give up a Tie-Bomber to use the card. (And three Tie-Bombers are not a winning combination.)

I understand the FFG should and must keep game balance in mind. And I don’t believe that the One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance is going to make the game fun for every one.

I personally don’t believe that fantasy flight will ever fix this problem to everyone’s satisfaction. I could be wrong.

If I could every talk to the X-Wing game designers, I would suggest two changes, (keeping in mind game balance must come first. And no One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance.)

I would suggest the Target locks happen at the beginning of the combat phase and takes no action. It only takes half a millisecond to lock on target using today’s technology.

Admit that they ordinance isn’t working, fix the problem and just re-issue corrected cards so every one can just move on! Ordinance is just not effective!

JMHO

Ordnance, not ordinance.

Ordinance is a type of law. Ordnance relates to firepower.

Firepower is its own type of law.

McDonalds serves breakfast after 10:30 if you have a gun.

#Murica

There were bomber squads running around last year, I know. I mean, in a tournament at my local store, a bomber squad nearly won it. Had some bad rolls in the final. The bomber squads just may not fit for you.

Please don't get me wrong, I love playing the bomber, LOVE IT! I play full squadron and will always do so. And I play ordnance with my bombers. As I stated before I love the game and I continue to play regardless. I understand that FFG must keep game balance, which I agree with. I also understand that there shouldn't be a One-Shot-One-Kill with ordnance, which I also agree with. What I am saying is the ordnance should be just as effective as primary weapons, not any better but just as effective. I just tied of more card that clutter up the game and not really make ordnance effective . FFG just needs to redo ordnance correctly and just get it over with.

There were bomber squads running around last year, I know. I mean, in a tournament at my local store, a bomber squad nearly won it. Had some bad rolls in the final. The bomber squads just may not fit for you.

Was the bombers using bombs or ordinance?

There were bomber squads running around last year, I know. I mean, in a tournament at my local store, a bomber squad nearly won it. Had some bad rolls in the final. The bomber squads just may not fit for you.

Was the bombers using bombs or ordinance?

Ordnance. Mainly cluster and assault missiles. Let me tell you, Jonus enhanced Cluster Missiles are no joke. Especially against 1 Agi ships.

There were bomber squads running around last year, I know. I mean, in a tournament at my local store, a bomber squad nearly won it. Had some bad rolls in the final. The bomber squads just may not fit for you.

Please don't get me wrong, I love playing the bomber, LOVE IT! I play full squadron and will always do so. And I play ordnance with my bombers. As I stated before I love the game and I continue to play regardless. I understand that FFG must keep game balance, which I agree with. I also understand that there shouldn't be a One-Shot-One-Kill with ordnance, which I also agree with. What I am saying is the ordnance should be just as effective as primary weapons, not any better but just as effective. I just tied of more card that clutter up the game and not really make ordnance effective . FFG just needs to redo ordnance correctly and just get it over with.

I think 4 gammas with homing missiles and extra munitions could be a thing.

Why are you so adamant about making a team with only Bombers to prove if it is competitive or not? Including one or two Bombers in a list with a couple of ordnance to control the board (Ion missiles, bombs, flechette torpedoes) can be a good addition in any list. If you just throw the units in there and make it a one trick pony list, you,ll have a hard time making it a competitive. But, make a list with a Bomber, a flanker, some blockers or a hard hitter, and I think you can have a winning list, and Extra Munitions will help you achieve it.

I have never been able to build a competitive list using a combination of other craft with a bomber.

I won a Regional event with Jonus and three Scimitars. Sooo.... ... .. .

I’ll state first that I love the game and will continue to play it regardless. I have noticed that if you don’t use ordinance than every thing is fine because as a weapon system it’s not very effective and you live longer. If you use ordinance than they are not keeping you competitive.

I understand the FFG should and must keep game balance in mind. And I don’t believe that the One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance is going to make the game fun for every one. But the problem with ordinance is simple.

1) it’s to cumbersome to use, get a target lock, and if you move first you normal don’t

2) It’s costs to much for what you get. 4 points for one attack that normally misses.

3) It’s not very effective. Even if you hit, the damage is so low it’s not worth the points you spend.

To prove my point, does anyone know any body that has won a tournament be using ordinance, (Torpedoes and Missiles!) If the answer is “NO”, than my points are valid. If the answer is, “Yes” than I am wrong. So has anyone won a tournament using ordinance as their primary weapon system, such as on bombers or Y-Wings?

I won imdaar alpha with it?

The lack of Cluster Missiles is worrying. Especially in a Falcon environment. Nothing eats low Agi ships faster...

As you requested, I replaced the Concussion Missiles, with Cluster Missiles.

22 Jonus

2 Extra Munitions

5 Homing Missiles

16 Scimitar

2 Extra Munitions

4 Cluster Missiles

2 Seismic Charges

16 Scimitar

2 Extra Munitions

4 Cluster Missiles

2 Seismic Charges

16 Gamma

2 Extra Munitions

3 proton Rockets

2 Seismic Charges

Once again, do you believe that this build could win at a tournament? Because I don’t believe it could.

Yes. I could win a tournament, or at least place, in the current meta with that. I wouldn't use homing missiles though, I'd use those points to up a seismic charge ts to proton bomb.

Thank you for that, "Yes" answer I was waiting for that. A "Proton" Bomb, interesting. I have played a list every similar to this build, in local tournaments. I never place.

Sorry about that. Maybe bombers just aren't your thing. I for one, can't fly large based ships with any skill at all. With some luck, proton bombs can mess up any rebels day. A and E wings can be direct hitted into oblivion, while other ships can get nasty crits that detriment them till the end of the game. It's a bombers best friend.

On designing ordnance fixes, I think torpedo and primary attacks not being mutually exclusive is probably the best one I've seen.

This. It is simple and without much in the way of actions to boost either attack, it is not unbalancing.

Why doesn't Assault Missiles get any love? Just aim them at the lowest Agility ship in range and watch the splash damage. You can really mess up formations, swarms, and big ship plus escort builds. I have brutalized B-Wings with them in the past.

On designing ordnance fixes, I think torpedo and primary attacks not being mutually exclusive is probably the best one I've seen.

This. It is simple and without much in the way of actions to boost either attack, it is not unbalancing.

I wish this could work, but I'm a bit afraid of some things being REALLY powerful in this case. Corran with FCS could kill a looooooot of things in one round. Too many.

Why doesn't Assault Missiles get any love? Just aim them at the lowest Agility ship in range and watch the splash damage. You can really mess up formations, swarms, and big ship plus escort builds. I have brutalized B-Wings with them in the past.

Assault missiles are very fun. Mini-swarm I'm looking to try out soonish features a Bomber with Assaults and a second bomber with a Homing Missile, with the idea being I have a solid ordnance for both a tight flying formation and another for for some cheeky interceptor type. Need to see if I can re-work it for EM, though that might me dropping my Proximity Mines which, well... I'd rather have those, given the option. Guess I could downgrade them to IPMs to get EM on both, then both ships will be capable of Ioning twice and dropping two bombs.

...I understand the FFG should and must keep game balance in mind. And I don’t believe that the One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance is going to make the game fun for every one.

I personally don’t believe that fantasy flight will ever fix this problem to everyone’s satisfaction. I could be wrong.

If I could every talk to the X-Wing game designers, I would suggest two changes, (keeping in mind game balance must come first. And no One-Shot-One-Kill ordinance.)...

Except for the fact if anything could be one shot one kill by ordnance it could then be one shot one kill to primary weapons and HLC. The only thing that had to worry about one shot one kill was proton bombs were the 2 hull E-wings. All other ships with 2 hull had little or no shields that they had more to worry about then an expensive one use upgrade that no one uses.

As some one that uses torpedoes and missiles more than they probably should ( because they really do suck) I can tell you none of them are one shot one kill unless it was a Tie fighter which as everyone knows you don't need missile or torpedo weapons to one shot those things.

Assault Missiles are fun. I used them in my SC. I was the only undefeated until finals. Stupid 3 generic Phantoms took me out.

@Comradebot: I think your list on page 2 doesn't have enough Tie Bombers in it. The Howlrunner is redundant in the list, as well.

Why doesn't Assault Missiles get any love? Just aim them at the lowest Agility ship in range and watch the splash damage. You can really mess up formations, swarms, and big ship plus escort builds. I have brutalized B-Wings with them in the past.

AM are really only useful against swarms and there aren't many of those these days, not to mention it can be tough to land them against high agility swarms.

The card is better than most people think and it attempts to make the bombers in the game what they should. For the tie bomber and the like the card is perfect. Running them with a missile and a bomb this card is a double bonus. So for 8 points I get two cluster missiles and two seismics? Yes please. Heck run Flechetes and prockets for 7. The card is fine.

For those people crying about action economy, would it have been awesome to get ever more? Sure, but could have easily been unbalanced. Most of the cards Give us a benefit to firing them and now getting twice the fun, even better.

Again when you take it solely to benefit a single option, it's not as great but it will see table time benefiting bombs and bombers.

Yes you only get 3 bombers this way, but how much more ordinance are you packing? A Tie Bomber gets 2 Torpedo slots, 2 Missile slots, and a Bomb. That is 5 ordinance each or 20 for a squad of 4. A squad of 3 gets 15-3 for the extra munitions resulting in 12 that can be fired twice. A total of 24. Mind you this extra 12 shots is only costing you 6 points. Previously it could have cost you 24 more points or even more. So you are losing a bomber in exchange for a Bomber's worth of ordinance.

It is going to help Slave 1 a lot. Scum can take k4, glitterstim, a bomb, and a missile, topped off with the extra munition upgrade.

Just to throw my two cents in, anything that changes the core rule book would be out of the question. Did FFG mess up and not think about ordnance thoroughly enough when designing the game? Maybe. But they won't change the core.

After reading the fantastic views of a community that simply wants fairness and the ability to have more options in the game, why not allow for that by simply having a separate ordnance pool of points in the game? It's probably been suggested, but if it hasn't I'll start by saying I think they should allow for 10% of the overall points in a game to make up a munitions side pool to be spent on expendable munitions, i.e., bombs, missiles, or torpedoes, that have a discard after use effect. Any points after the side pool is exhausted simply count towards the normal ship pool.

So, for example, 100 point game gets a 10 point side pool. Spend 14 points on expendable munitions and only 4 of that goes towards the 100 points.

Extra munitions card doesn't count towards the pool but it becomes more valuable. So we will have to spend money to go buy those xpacks eh. Win win?!

You're using a very narrow lens to gauge the effectiveness of a single part of the game.

You say "Has anyone won a tournament using JUST Ordnance?" and then think if the answer is "No" then it must be useless.

I'll ask you: Has anyone won a tournament using JUST Interceptors? JUST E-Wings? JUST YT-1300s?

Maybe. But probably not a 30+ player one. By using your logic then, the above ships must be useless too.

Bombs, Missiles and Torps are a supplement to your list. Not the only thing in them.