With The Desperation E: This attack gets -1 or +1 dmg your choice card, how will ivy over come this weakness. It seems to me after Ivy drops their opponent into desperation, she will have an immensely hard time finishing off her opponent. How does ivy overcome this? Will we need to pack in Siegfried support? Will Ivy need to start playing off void (so she can pack her own) What is the state of her power? Does anyone have any experiance with Ivy vs King support?

Path of the Master

If she's playing off of All, she has access to Pommel Smash to commit The Man Behind the Mask, she also has access to Rivalry with a Bear. She COULD Test of Strength off of Void, but not too likely depending on how many attacks she's played.

A weird suggestion but unless you're facing multiples of them (in which case Path seems to be the way to go) try Reaver's Axe. +1/+1 to any of her attacks not named Evil Sparrow, Howling Spirits or Raging Gnome, or +2/+2 for blowing it up to Howling Spirits and Raging Gnome.

I would also suggest packing Valentine if you can't seem to find Paths. Sure, you commit a foundation but by doing so you effectively negate two of those Man Behind the Masks. Stat-wise it's pretty terrific too.

Although 4diff, Valkynsverd is another excellent All card that Ivy can benefit from, since she has quite a few weapon attacks worth playing.

Path is the best answer. If youre deep void you can play dead for 1k to kind of secure your combo or valued but not trust.

Of Course the player playing the King support can just use Ka Technique(matches 2 symbols) on The Ivy Players first attack and blank the Path...Then she crys. Or negate it with Dead for 1000 Years...

Sol Badguy said:

Dead for a Thousand Years does not negate.

Homme Chapeau said:

O_o I thought it was ruled that it did?

@Sol Badguy: If you check the Omnifaq, it blanks it to prevent further use (for costless foundations).

So are we in a consensus that Ivy needs to be run off void? It seems to me the only answers to damage redux (which is Ivy's biggest opponent besides draw negation) is to run king/rashotep support (which a king could run anyways).

It seems to me in an Ivy vs.any void deck, she will have a tough time and seems to me she has lost alot of power due to the last set. Looks like she will have to do a final hit before desperation happens.

Hayamachop said:

She has an even tougher time against earth as they have acces to all the King and rasho support and on top of that they have Stand Off.

Hayamachop said:

Um, not quite. The consensus is she has a tough time against Void and Earth. Some of the suggestion listed are off of the All resource. When I had made my recommendation I had assumed you were referring to a player who already had 4 tMBtM's in their staging area and are in desperation. That would make nearly anything she runs a zero damage attack and therefore PotM would minimize the effect of said reduction. If that's the case, Mesmerizing Dance off of Life could be useful.

True, however as we talked about in the momentum forum, against a well played void deck, it seems not only is your damage getting dropped, but so is your momentum, and even some foundations/assets getting blanked. After the release of tekken it seems void is THE symbol to play, (due to dmg redux, card tossing, control, and even card draw.) Of course, all is the counter to (many of these problems soley due to paul support). On another note of life Ivy, I wonder how well no forgiveness fits into the decks.

Maybe I should be changing the thread to how does non-stun decks overcome void decks because I just realized, King support also takes down multiples easy. Learned from the best even just twice is scary enough against multiples. If you opponent has 2 out and you have multiple 2 thats -4 dmg to each attack (if they have enough resources). Couple that with the man behind the mask, mexican sensation, and enemies now friends he can reduce almost any attack to an low or negative dmg attack.

Well, you go faster than the Void player.

If he gets down all his stuff and locks PotM out, has enough redux to nullify lots of attacks, blank your card draw, la la la la... before your deck won? He deserves his leisurely win.

No Forgiveness is jank for Ivy, it's another non-attack card she can draw and it screws up Switching Weapon Style. And on top of that she can never guarantee anything dealing damage.

Can you guys share your experiences against king?

Well this wasn't against King (it was my very preliminary Void Nina vs. an Earth Siegfried) and oddly enough I was faced with the choice when using Nina's F of the following 5 cards:

Siegfired's Earth Divide
Man Behind the Mask
Man Behind the Mask
Man Behing the Mask
Man Behing the Mask

I kid you not. Of course, I didn't want a Siegfried's Earth Divide, considering his deck pulls it off with good consistency, but then I could only do a blank stare when my Curse of the Ancient Mariner with Powerful:4 wasn't enough to kill him by 5 life, then he proceeded to donut all of my attacks and give +7 to his.

The lesson here is obviously to pack some sort of damage pump lol

F with KNEEL BEFORE ME
F with Switching Weapon Styles
play attack
E with Brazilian Beauty, kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

move on.

that's my plan anyway ;..;

quarzark said:

guitalex2008 said:

it was 4am when I was looking at the card and building my deck for the tournament today ;..;

Form is even better, I have to play less cards at 5 difficulty.

Tired and late for class. Really quick solutions. A. Siegfried has an attack that is 3 difficultiy and it gets damage for as many symbols that don't match between the character cards.Its only 1 or 2 damage sometimes but it will get damage through. B. Potm sadly. It isn't broke but man its setting itself up to be errated. Next thing I would say is that if any player got 4 of that card out and they didn't loose one to a control check good for them. Thats rare. Just wait until Yi Shan decks start adding them in.

In my opinion this is a good thing. Ivy needs something to knock her down a bit. She can turn 2 kill with a switch weapon styles in hand. It makes her crazy good with little effort due to built in draw. She needs something to worry about. It also makes cards like Nina viable and worthy of being chosen. To all the king players out there start packing terrain or Yimfang/Master of magic. You don't really need momentum to much and getting rid of POTM will get you wins. Can King go down. I lost to a Hilde deck so yes its possible. It just now death by a bizillion draw has risk.

How do Ivy players overcome King support?

They facesmash before it hits the board, duh.

Homme Chapeau said:

True. If you haven't pulled a Switching Weapon styles by turn 2 something is wrong. Put no 2 checks in your deck and your golden. If the king player gets out 3-4 Man behind the mask in the first turn he deserves to win.

darklogos said:

Why? Just Ivy poke him until he is slightly above Desperation, then OHKO him with attack + Power of the Master =)

MarcoPulleaux said:

Most Ivy players that's not possible because of the fact stopping before half or Potm before half doesn't mean king is dead. He still has damage reduction out the wazoo. Also if his symbols ever get a reversal enemies now friends will wreck ivy. Also I've come to believe that it is required for King to run a terran or Yimfang or both. Path is to much of a problem in general. It seems to many poeple are depending on it. Heck King can blow it up with his own Path. But I don't think a good king deck doesn't have a counter measure for Path since its easy for him to put in.

Nobody has reduction "out the wazoo" as of yet. Also, PotM (as you can read in Antigoth's OmniFAQ) despite it's name, is NOT a terrain and therefore does not get destroyed when another terrain enters play.