I feel like I've seen a lot of people moaning that Extra Munitions alone won't fix ordnance. Something tells me that, just somehow , FFG realizes that and that's why they included, y'know, a whole slew of munitions we haven't even seen yet.

I'll be the first to admit that Extra Munitions does squat for a missile platform such as the Z-95 or a TIE Defender. It also doesn't address action economy. These are fair criticisms of the card that, also in the point of fairness, some are hailing as the savior of ordnance.

However, Extra Munitions is fantastic for older munitions and older ships like the TIE Bomber, Y-Wing, B-Wing and the Firespray that can have multiple ordnance on a single vessel. A TIE Bomber with 3 Proton Bombs for less than the price of 2? Are you kidding me? That's insanely good! However, it's absolutely worthless and even unuseable on single-ordnance carriers, and that's okay . This was a card clearly designed for ships that can hold more than one, so why are people complaining about it being unuseable on single-slot ships?

As far as ships like the X-Wing, TIE Defender, Z-95, etc. go, we haven't even seen the other missile / torpedo goodies FFG are providing for us this wave. Advanced Homing Missiles? What even could that be!? Plasma Torpedoes? All of these things just sound awesome and they could suddenly, just maybe, be useful for ships that only hold one ordnance slot. They may even have a way to address the normally poor action economy of munitions. We don't know yet.

Ordnance could still suck, don't get me wrong. Maybe all of these will be uselses. Maybe they'll see limited use in fun Bomber or Andrasta squads. There are too many unknowns at the moment, however, to declare the wave a success or failure. All I know is that I'm excited for the aesthetically strange ships and weapons coming to us this year.

TL;DR: to act as though Extra Munitions is the sole ordnance upgrade in the coming wave is a bit ingnunt, and to act as though ordnance will still be 'useless' is downright wrong as there are coming upgrades about which we know nothing. Hail Koopa.

EDIT: Didn't realize Extra Munitions was Limited. Still, though, I don't think it changes the point too much. Cheers!

I think the fix for single-ordnance ships that people are wanting will arrive in wave 8. For now, wave 7 brings multi-ordnance ships a lot of new toys that should bring those ships back into play.

...

However, Extra Munitions is fantastic for older munitions and older ships like the TIE Bomber, Y-Wing, B-Wing and the Firespray that can have multiple ordnance on a single vessel. A TIE Bomber with 3 Proton Bombs for less than the price of 2? Are you kidding me? That's insanely good! However, it's absolutely worthless and even unuseable on single-ordnance carriers, and that's okay . This was a card clearly designed for ships that can hold more than one, so why are people complaining about it being unuseable on single-slot ships?

...

There are too many unknowns at the moment, however, to declare the wave a success or failure. All I know is that I'm excited for the aesthetically strange ships and weapons coming to us this year.

TL;DR: to act as though Extra Munitions is the sole ordnance upgrade in the coming wave is a bit ingnunt, and to act as though ordnance will still be 'useless' is downright wrong as there are coming upgrades about which we know nothing. Hail Koopa.

I wouldn't call Extra Munitions " fantastic ". It's not bad, but it's not that good. For the Tie Bomber, while I've done some neat things with Bombs, I don't rate it a great Bomb craft.

Also, how do you see getting 3 Bombs on a Tie Bomber? It is a Limited card, which means only once per ship. So, the most you can get is 2.

As for the "sole ordnance upgrade", we do know that there is an unknown EPT, an unknown crew, an unknown missile, and an unknown torpedo. That's about it, though.

It's also limited, so you can't seal both torpedo tubes to get three proton bombs.

I don't hate extra munitions, but it's going to help bombs more than missiles unless there's some really good ones in this wave.

Getting two bomb uses is probably the best thing about that upgrade. This can help a couple current ships with the Slave 1 (only) and Bomber getting a bit more utility from that specific upgrade.

Right now my plans are to just load up my punishers with bombs and go yo town.

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Getting two bomb uses is probably the best thing about that upgrade. This can help a couple current ships with the Slave 1 (only) and Bomber getting a bit more utility from that specific upgrade.

Two shots with an Ion Pulse Missile from the Firespray is not half bad either. Cripple that Falcon!

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Because it doesn't do anything for the ordnance that we currently have. It doesn't improve Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, or Assault Missiles. Most people were hoping that the Tie Bomber's role of an ordnance platform would be improved. Instead, it just lets you take more bombs or unreliable ordnance.

I edited the OP before your posts about the Limited nature of Extra Munitions, but I do appreciate you all pointing it out anyway

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Because if it's not immediately applicable to the Meta, it's bad. Nera with multiple Rockets almost makes me want to play Rebels. Almost.

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Because it's still not as good as B-Wing with HLC for a point less. Or a B-Wing with Mangler + Advanced Sensors, also for a point less. Or a Mangler + FCS, for 2 points less. Etc.

Extra Munitions is good on stuff that ordnance was already good on. It's done nothing at all for everything else.

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Because it doesn't do anything for the ordnance that we currently have. It doesn't improve Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, or Assault Missiles. Most people were hoping that the Tie Bomber's role of an ordnance platform would be improved. Instead, it just lets you take more bombs or unreliable ordnance.

Tell me again how that doesn`t make missiles better. 2 rounds of 20 attack dice, 14 with rerolls, 6 seismic bombs and two proximity mines... I'm sorry whatwas that about big ships.

I think if you want Luke to shoot down a TIE fighter or firespray with a proton torpedo then you are misunderstanding how that ordnance functions within the Star Wars lore. People are expecting all ordnance slots to be viable in 100-pt dogfights. They really shouldn't be...

You're right, torpedoes shouldn't be used on starfighters, that's what concussion missiles are for.

Torpedoes, double the amount of evade dice rolled, but double the amount of damage that DOES get through. (if it gets through)

Or something.

So, the Punner's PS7 ability looks very similar to an action economy ordnance fix that many of us had thought should be FAQed into general use. This suggests 2 things:

1) FFG won't be rolling that fix into the FAQ- why would they make Redline less useful before rolling her out?

2) FFG understands the action economy issue. They also agree that it's a problem.

Point 2 suggests something else: if they see that it's a problem, they may well have some interesting ways to fix it. Either there will be new ordnance that uses tokens better, or there will be new errata that makes the problem less severe, or a modification of some kind that makes the action economy more efficient, or some combination of all of the above.

Side note: Munitions Failsafe on an Extra Munitions equipped ship is now .5 points. Less than that if you equip 2 or more different types of munitions.

I'm trying desperately to figure out a missile that I want 4 of on my Tie Bombers.

I think if you want Luke to shoot down a TIE fighter or firespray with a proton torpedo then you are misunderstanding how that ordnance functions within the Star Wars lore. People are expecting all ordnance slots to be viable in 100-pt dogfights. They really shouldn't be...

This is one of the bigger problems with ordnance, I think. If I equip a Proton Torpedo, I want to get value from it. Getting value from it should not depend on my opponent bringing the right list.

So, the Punner's PS7 ability looks very similar to an action economy ordnance fix that many of us had thought should be FAQed into general use. This suggests 2 things:

1) FFG won't be rolling that fix into the FAQ- why would they make Redline less useful before rolling her out?

2) FFG understands the action economy issue. They also agree that it's a problem.

Point 2 suggests something else: if they see that it's a problem, they may well have some interesting ways to fix it. Either there will be new ordnance that uses tokens better, or there will be new errata that makes the problem less severe, or a modification of some kind that makes the action economy more efficient, or some combination of all of the above.

Side note: Munitions Failsafe on an Extra Munitions equipped ship is now .5 points. Less than that if you equip 2 or more different types of munitions.

I'm trying desperately to figure out a missile that I want 4 of on my Tie Bombers.

Cluster Missiles, of course.

This too brings up a valuable point about squad points: If you're truly drawn to munitions, you can have 4 Missiles on a single Bomber for < the price of 3.

For example:

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

- Extra Munitions (2)

- Cluster Missiles (4) x 2

Total : 26 points.

This would save 6 points if you could normally acquire 4 missiles on a single ship. You couldn't, but we see the point. Where this really saves points is that you no longer need an additional Bomber to carry that many missiles.

In effect, you're saving yourself almost 22 points to carry the same number of secondary weapons. Now, this comes at a cost of course because now you have a ship filled to the brim with ordnance just screaming to be targeted. You're also missing out on (pre-Extra Munitions) an additional 6 hull for the opponent to chew through in the form of the second Scimitar Squadron.

But what about the rest of your list?

You've now opened up 22 points to throw in a powerful Ace in your squad to augment the ordnance platform or to perhaps become a bigger threat. Also, Jonus suddenly doesn't seem so expensive. If you put his typical EPT of Squad Leader, the decked-out Bomber coupled with Jonus + Squad Leader is now only 50 points.

You also don't even have to have Jonus . He helps ordnance significantly, but let's say we do this instead:

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

- Extra Munitions (2)

- Homing Missiles (5)

Total : 23

You now have two Target Lock-able ordnances on a single ship for only 23 points . These missiles don't need Jonus, can absolutely wreck the large ships who love Evade Tokens and are even decent against Interceptors / Aggressors. Also, a Bomber is very unlikely to die in a single round of firing.

Extra Munitions isn't powerful in the way it upgrades the damage / effects of Ordnance, but in the way it allows you to customize your squad point-wise. In this case for an additional 5 points, you can carry 4 missiles, whereas that used to take an additional 16 points at the very least.

Whether or not this will make ordnance more popular, I'm not sure. And like I mentioned in the OP, it doesn't address the action economy issue, especially with Torpedoes and the like. But it really opens up points to be moved around in your squad. Hell, even a solo Rhymer isn't a bad choice anymore.

EDIT: I realize this post only addresses Imperial squads. I don't play Rebels and haven't gone against a Rebel list using anything other than cannons / turrets on their intended ordnance platforms, so apologies for not including the B-Wing / Y-Wing.

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Because it doesn't do anything for the ordnance that we currently have. It doesn't improve Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, or Assault Missiles. Most people were hoping that the Tie Bomber's role of an ordnance platform would be improved. Instead, it just lets you take more bombs or unreliable ordnance.

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!49:126,-1,14,-1,24:-1:-1:;49:126,-1,14,-1,24:-1:-1:;49:126,-1,14,-1,24:-1:-1:;51:8,126,-1,-1,-1,28:-1:-1:

Tell me again how that doesn`t make missiles better. 2 rounds of 20 attack dice, 14 with rerolls, 6 seismic bombs and two proximity mines... I'm sorry whatwas that about big ships.

It still requires Jonus to work. He doesn't get anything to shoot. He's still the weak point. Kill him and your ordnance drops dramatically.

Personally, I think I'd go with:

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM

Plasma torpedoes has an X-wing firing them on the pic. Just saying.

And I have no idea what Adv Homing missiles does if it's showcased shooting a B-wing.... shield penetration maybe?

I would like to think that the card art doesn't mean too much.

Also, I want it to be token removal.

Plasma torpedoes has an X-wing firing them on the pic. Just saying.

And I have no idea what Adv Homing missiles does if it's showcased shooting a B-wing.... shield penetration maybe?

Just by the nature of 'plasma,' I can't help but have a feeling those Torpedoes will deal direct hull damage in some way. Or maybe they'll have some crazy new effect, but man shield-ignoring munitions would be dope.

How is Extra Munitions not the Bee's knees. You now can have two bomb Y-wings. Or have B-wings with Two Proton torpedoes for 30 points. 36 points gets you a b-wing that can fire outside its firing arc.

Because it doesn't do anything for the ordnance that we currently have. It doesn't improve Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, or Assault Missiles. Most people were hoping that the Tie Bomber's role of an ordnance platform would be improved. Instead, it just lets you take more bombs or unreliable ordnance.

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!49:126,-1,14,-1,24:-1:-1:;49:126,-1,14,-1,24:-1:-1:;49:126,-1,14,-1,24:-1:-1:;51:8,126,-1,-1,-1,28:-1:-1:

Tell me again how that doesn`t make missiles better. 2 rounds of 20 attack dice, 14 with rerolls, 6 seismic bombs and two proximity mines... I'm sorry whatwas that about big ships.

here is my control version of that build:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!49:126,58,-1,-1,127:-1:-1:;49:126,58,-1,-1,127:-1:-1:;49:126,58,-1,-1,127:-1:-1:;51:8,126,-1,-1,-1,28:-1:-1:

What does limited mean again?

What does limited mean again?

It means only one per ship.