I really hope the generic is 20 points. Unfortunately, I think that might make finding a spot for mangler scyks that much harder. Is the loss of two hull worth 1 agility? I don't know...

You're citing different metrics.

Doesn't really matter, because we're not actually talking about an X-Wing here, and I don't wish to derail this thread into a debate about X-Wings.

The Kihraxz looks to fill a role that the S&V doesn't really have anything for currently. A heavy assault/jousting fighter. None of the current ships in S&V work in that role, and so the Kihraxz looks to be a good ship for this faction.

The x-wing "derail" is about the "scum x-wing" that will materialize soon, and the questionable value of the PS2 generic kihraxz if it sees the same cost plan as the x-wing does.

We still haven't seen the actual cost of the generics or the dial, but I'd be lamenting--not celebrating--an emulation of the x-wing.

Disagree there, too. BTL-A4 y-wings kick open doors far better than x-wings or the hypothetical "scum x-wing" if it gets priced the same. And if you need just jousting fighters, scum has M3-As and z-95s which will also be better values for the points.

So very happy they put the Kihraxz in the game. Although going to have to repaint it to the correct Black Sun silver paint job it had in Galaxies. The brown and red was for Hutt ships.

I'm betting Lightning Reflexes says:

Scum Only

After you reveal a white

or green maneuver on your

dial, you may discard this

card to turn your ship

180^o. Then receive a stress

token after the Check

Stress step.

and it will be glorious/awful on IG-88 (depending on which side of the table you're sitting)

Indeed. Biggs and Wedge aren't bad for a start.

Or Tarn with R7.

Point is, the X-Wing is not nearly as bad as some people are claiming. And while it is about a point or two overcost, that is largely an issue because of the B-Wing.

In a faction with no B-Wing, or other heavy assault fighter, the kihraxz looks like it could find a comfortable place in many lists.

Points wise, you get a PS9 for 29 points vs 30 for Guri who's only PS5. Sure you miss out on boost and barrel roll, but there's no question that the PS9's special ability is pretty killer. 5 dice at range 1? 4 dice at range 3? Yes please.

All DAT! As soon as I saw that the text reads double... I smiled like a big dope.

Me in loves!

Wedge is not going to simply ignore the main man for this one. Dunno gang both are PS 9 and 29 points too.

The PS6 is Graz the Hunter, as you can see from the base tile alongside the upgrade cards.

[edit] I think the PS2 will cost 20. PS9 (at 29 points) minus PS2 equals 22, minus 1 for the PS9 having an EPT equals 21, minus 1 for the PS9 having a pilot ability equals 20.

Besides, the hull/shield configuration on a Kihraxz is worse than an X-Wing, so it would be silly to make them cost the same.

I agree with this reasoning. I could almost see them going down to 19, because everyone agrees the X-wing is overcosted at 21, and like you said, this is slightly worse than the X-wing

The PS6 is Graz the Hunter, as you can see from the base tile alongside the upgrade cards.

[edit] I think the PS2 will cost 20. PS9 (at 29 points) minus PS2 equals 22, minus 1 for the PS9 having an EPT equals 21, minus 1 for the PS9 having a pilot ability equals 20.

Besides, the hull/shield configuration on a Kihraxz is worse than an X-Wing, so it would be silly to make them cost the same.

I agree with this reasoning. I could almost see them going down to 19, because everyone agrees the X-wing is overcosted at 21, and like you said, this is slightly worse than the X-wing

I would have thought we'd gotten over this as a community, but apparently not. Does anyone think the Lambda would stay at its current cost if it had the YT-2400's dial? Of course not. Would the X-wing still have a cost-effectiveness problem if you could swap its dial for an Interceptor's dial? No, I don't think it would.

So let's back off a little bit on being disappointed in (or excited about) the base cost of the Kihraxz, until we know:

(1) What the base cost of the Kihraxz actually is, and

(2) Whether it has a dial better than an X-wing (like an Interceptor), worse than an X-wing (like a Y-wing), or very similar (like an E-wing).

[EDIT: Not aimed specifically at UnfairBanana or Danthrax, but rather at the thread in general.]

The only significant advantages as far as dial goes that I could see the Kihraxz having would be a 1-turn maneuver, or a ton of green and s-loops, but the latter would kind of tread on the Starviper's role.

There is a lot to learn yet, but it is certainly esthetically speaking the SCUM Z-Wing.

I like it plenty!

The PS6 is Graz the Hunter, as you can see from the base tile alongside the upgrade cards.

[edit] I think the PS2 will cost 20. PS9 (at 29 points) minus PS2 equals 22, minus 1 for the PS9 having an EPT equals 21, minus 1 for the PS9 having a pilot ability equals 20.

Besides, the hull/shield configuration on a Kihraxz is worse than an X-Wing, so it would be silly to make them cost the same.

I agree with this reasoning. I could almost see them going down to 19, because everyone agrees the X-wing is overcosted at 21, and like you said, this is slightly worse than the X-wing

I would have thought we'd gotten over this as a community, but apparently not. Does anyone think the Lambda would stay at its current cost if it had the YT-2400's dial? Of course not. Would the X-wing still have a cost-effectiveness problem if you could swap its dial for an Interceptor's dial? No, I don't think it would.

So let's back off a little bit on being disappointed in (or excited about) the base cost of the Kihraxz, until we know:

(1) What the base cost of the Kihraxz actually is, and

(2) Whether it has a dial better than an X-wing (like an Interceptor), worse than an X-wing (like a Y-wing), or very similar (like an E-wing).

[EDIT: Not aimed specifically at UnfairBanana or Danthrax, but rather at the thread in general.]

Indeed, the dial could surprise us, as well as the cost. However, everything I read about the kihraxz is making it sound like a scummy x-wing competitor. The PS9 (who, unknown dial aside, looks like a good value) pilot matches cost with the x-wing's Wedge Antilles, which leads one to believe there may be more parallels to be drawn that are less exciting about the ship.

You are right, though, we won't know until they release more spoilers and the speculation we do here is really just hot air.

I don't think anyone's getting too excited/disappointed in the cost of the ship. The dial does make all the difference. People are merely speculating, trying to get some sort of estimate of what the generics might be

Eh, the dial would have to be pretty friggin amazing to overcome this thing getting overcosted. The thing that other overcosted ships have to make up their points is upgrades and actions. YT-1300 has crew and a turret, E-wing has advanced sensors and evade and barrell roll. The X-wing has. . . none of these things, and neither does the kihraxz. That means that the value of the ship needs to be pretty much spot on to make the ship worth taking in a tourney-level list. Literally every maneuver could be green and it wouldn't make much difference if it costs too much, because then only the pilots with EPT would be cost effective and you'd see a similar situation that we see with the E-wing (only Corran Horn is used in tourney play).

Eh, the dial would have to be pretty friggin amazing to overcome this thing getting overcosted.

Considering we only know the cost of one ship, no one can really say for sure if it's overcosted or not. There isn't a simple scale that lets you deduct X points per PS after all.

Eh, the dial would have to be pretty friggin amazing to overcome this thing getting overcosted.

Considering we only know the cost of one ship, no one can really say for sure if it's overcosted or not. There isn't a simple scale that lets you deduct X points per PS after all.

Of course, but for most ships it's 1 point per pilot skill. What's really hard to determine is how they cost pilot abilities. Hard to tell how they costed Cobra Commander's ability--could be free, could be one point, could be two points. . . could even be a Major Rhymer-esque 5 points, which would put the PS2 kihraxz at an amazing 17 points (ok this whole last part was just kidding for those who have broken sarcasm detectors). That said, Cobra's ability is really pretty bad ass--5 red dice range one and 4 green dice range 3 is a pretty big deal. I could see them valuing this ability quite highly.

My point is just that if they overcost this thing, it will be a pretty worthless ship, because there are no upgrades or actions to add value.

I do have faith that FFG has likely learned their lesson, though, and this ship will be at MOST 20 points.

On paper it looks no better than the humble X-wing, maybe even worse. I'd rather have Astromech than Illicit right now. I do not like the fact that scum has a PS 9 pilot now. I liked how they were a faction of dirty tricks rather than piloting ability. If the dial is better than the X-wing it might be alright. Now it just looks like an X-wing clone and we all know how much the X-wing is used currently.

Or maybe this ship will come with cards that will also help the X wing.

On paper it looks no better than the humble X-wing, maybe even worse. I'd rather have Astromech than Illicit right now. I do not like the fact that scum has a PS 9 pilot now. I liked how they were a faction of dirty tricks rather than piloting ability. If the dial is better than the X-wing it might be alright. Now it just looks like an X-wing clone and we all know how much the X-wing is used currently.

Or maybe this ship will come with cards that will also help the X wing.

Sorry but I think this thing is stuck at an underwhelming 21 points. Vader and Wedge have probably the two best abilities in the game and their abilities cost 1 point. Talonbane's ability is pretty interesting, but not worth more than a point.

...And it is because of that I would have liked them to be PS1 and PS3 instead of PS2/PS5 (potentially with an EPT). That would have reduced the cost across the board by a point and got them to 20 which is the maximum I would put them at.

I am not really a fan of making this so similar to the X-wing either, why not make it slightly different and give it evade, or give it a great dial (still possible).

Currently all signs point to this being worse than an X-wing and costing the same. But we'll see, lots of info to come, and pilot abilities make a big difference too.

I think the ship looks great, and will look awesome next to the Scyks.

Interesting how Lightning Reflexes has a big bold after near the end of its text. Would be neat if you get to use after a white or green maneuver to spin your ship 180^o and then apply a stress token after your action phase.

I don't think anyone's getting too excited/disappointed in the cost of the ship. The dial does make all the difference. People are merely speculating, trying to get some sort of estimate of what the generics might be

Eh, the dial would have to be pretty friggin amazing to overcome this thing getting overcosted.

Sorry but I think this thing is stuck at an underwhelming 21 points...

Currently all signs point to this being worse than an X-wing and costing the same.

Based on one pilot card, people are giving full voice to their cynicism and pre-emptive disappointment. All I'm saying is... maybe wait until FFG spoils more than one ship card?

Ship looks cool but being the scum x wing isn't a good thing.

I'm pretty sure it won't have an S-Loop.

The cards for special actions/abilities are always included with ships that have them, and therefore also FFG's contents photos. The Kihraxz doesn't have a special card, so either they've forgotten to photograph it, or (more likely) it doesn't have an S-Loop.

I'm pretty sure it won't have an S-Loop.

The cards for special actions/abilities are always included with ships that have them, and therefore also FFG's contents photos. The Kihraxz doesn't have a special card, so either they've forgotten to photograph it, or (more likely) it doesn't have an S-Loop.

Aye, more likely or not, the sigma turn will likely remain exclusive to only the most elite fighter ships. Though including a Sigma turn includes it's own penalty as unlike every other K-turn of it's type the same action occupies two slots, potentially limiting it's mobility. Pretty much you either have 3 banks or sigma turns.|

I expect it to be more or less a X-wing with more hull instead of sheild in terms of preformance, with the benifit of scum support and certain perks of the faction. Glitterstim itself is incredable play for a single turns worth of focus action. Palob would indirectly benifit by stealing focus or evade from select craft, reducing it's ability to defend itself and so on. Just the Y-Wing and Z-95 is strong competation.

If it's 20pts with a combined x/ewing dial (double k turn and green 1 banks) I think everyone would be pretty please. That's what I'd bet on but my betting history with S&V so far is not one you would want.

If it has white 1 turns (or even reds) it would probably be sufficient to make up the difference for the poorer hull/shield ratio and illicit over astro. Double K-turns would be ok too, 3 and 5 maybe.