scum does need more astromech ships!!

Yeah they do!

Could be on all of them?

You might just be right... good point.

I don't think the X-wing is over costed relative to the TIE fighter, one X-wing versus 2 TIE fighters is still a pretty even match.

The X-wing was on some accounts was considered overpowered during wave 1 when it was the only 3 attack dice ship. The X-wings durability only becomes a massive concern when 3 and 4 dice attacks become prevalent.

Unfortunately as more ships appeared that had 3 dice the relative efficiency of the X-wing dropped (not helped by the X and the B being so similar in price).

That being said Scum don't currently have a ship that fits the B-wing mold, well they do in the Starviper, but the cost difference is sufficient to not supersede the Kihraxz entirely. Y-wings are slightly more expensive and Scyk's of similar cost (mangler) fall more into the glass cannon interceptor mold. That being said I still think it would be more functional at 20 points, because 3 plus a 40 point Starviper would be a reasonable list. For example just try fitting Scyk's with Autoblaster (21) into a list compared with mangos at 20.

Wave 2 came around to give rebels HSF lists where 2 rookies were the best filler to put alongside Han at the time. Interceptors kinda dragged wave 1 rebel lists through the dirt, who already struggled with swarms, who still were quite good.

Wave 3 gave us the b-wing, whose generics replaced rookies whenever a point could be spared.

Wave 4 gave us z-95s, which offered a cheaper alternative with a lot more efficiency... Need I go on?

X-wings were never overpowered, especially not generics. They pretty much were included as filler when no other rebel option was better and are now virtually obsolete. Y-wings with btl-a4 do a fairly good job at filling a quasai b-wing mold for scum for only 1 point more. It would be nice for scum to have a jouster with plain 3 primary attack, but emulating x-wings, without a cost reduction, would be a step backwards given how much better their z-95s and y-wings already are.

I really like this new S&V ship. It's the expansion I'm looking forward the most from Wave 7. I think I will get at least 2. I'm mostly a Rebel player, although I play all factions. Like many others have said before, it reminds me of the E-Wing, one of my favorite ships. I don't know all the details of the Extended Universe, so I don't mind at all that it should/could have been a different version or paint scheme. The PS9 pilot's ability paired with Lone Wolf will most probably prove to be a great combo.

Don't know about generics yet, but Mister Cobra will find place in my lists. PS 9 ship with inertial dampeners has lots of potential, and makes oponent to reevaluate every move. Add predator and you have killer

Now, to be fair, scum did need a cheaper generic with a basic 3 attack since the Y is range 1-2 limited with the BTL quasi-3 dice attack and the Starviper generic is some 2 points overpriced (which is tragic because I'd leap at the chance to run 4 with auto-thrusters )

Fingers crossed that the generic fighter is cheaper than the rookie pilot

I know it is super early to be doing this...

But I put some mathwing into Mr. Cobra to look at how well he is faring. I know I have been kinda doom-and-gloom in this thread, but I want to be a bit more optimistic than that.

On its face, everyone feels the ability is pretty good. Extra range 3 defense dice? Great! Extra range 1 attack dice? Killer! But what, if anything, can we begin to infer of his value?

First thing, his PS1 adjusted cost is 20.36 points (this is only based on his PS, EPT slot, and his printed cost--this does not necessarily imply anything about the cheapo generic cost).

Next, calculating his Expected Damage Output, he comes out to a nice 1.96 normalized. This was pretty quick and easy, just using an existing function and adding +1 dice only in the case of range 1 attacks.

Then, calculating his Expected Durability. Also easy, though slightly less quick. Had to create a new HitCritPDF array that includes adding another +1 dice for range 3 cases. Chug the array through a mean rounds to destroy function and his normalized durability is about 1.22 (a tad above an x-wing, remember that 1 shield for a hull puts the ship's durability a tad below without cobra's text).

Throwing together EDO and EDur, his JV is 19.43. Against his PS1 cost, this gives him a 95.55% joust efficiency. This is not bad out of the box for a PS 9, but he also has an EPT slot we haven't used yet. There are going to be plenty of options out there, but the first ones that comes to my mind is predator or PTL (we don't know what his dial looks like--PTL could be prohibitive if there aren't enough greens). Both of these upgrades are 3 points added to his base cost (so 31 now), adjusting for PS1, he scores a 22.55 adjusted cost. Both of these upgrades will also adjust his EDO. Free rerolls are strong.

His EDO, JV, and joust efficiency for predator and PTL are then below:

    EPT choice         EDO     JV      Jeff
1-reroll predator:    2.499 | 22.23 | 98.61%
2-reroll predator:    2.741 | 23.40 | 103.79%
PTL (always-rerolls): 2.834 | 23.84 | 105.73%

There are certainly more things you could do with talonbane, and numbers never tell the whole story. But if nothing else, he looks pretty good value for a PS bid jouster who becomes very punishing within range 1.

e: edited for the updated point cost--he is 28 not 29 now

@Zero9300

I have no idea what you just said, but thanks for your support.

@Zero9300

I have no idea what you just said, but thanks for your support.

At this point, mostly useless nonsense.

I think the article was updated-Cobra looks to be 28 points today.

I'm betting it'll have a slightly-better-than-X-Wing dial, more like E-Wing or TIE Advanced, to make up for the lost shield and Astromech. I think it'll see play, especially as the only 20ish point Scum ship right now is a cannon Scyk.

The Advanced dial is WORSE than the xwing...keep it away!

still not shutting up about Luke with R3-A@, V.I, and EU

Stress Wing baby! Abuse it!

Problem is less phantoms makes it less necessary

point is, the X-wing is not a ship you want to emulate. It can sneak by on the backs of 2 (luke, tarn) or 3 (biggs) pilots, but its gone through 3 sets worth of characters (core, expansion, transport) and is otherwise, by and large, just straight inferior to other rebel options (B-wing). Scum doesn't have the B, but it does have the far more efficient headhunter.

With all the HLCs and fat turrets flying around, there isn't much use for such an expensive, fragile fighter unless there is a balls-out insane pilot backing it up.

I've thought the Bwing was a problem since release. I've always thought it had too many shields or needed to cost more. Even one more would be pretty big to make the choice between x and b mean something.

But the b is pretty solid where it is. The x does need a little something...great pilot abilities aren't even carrying it anymore.

I can remember people complaining about how ridiculous it was that Ten Numb was 2 points more than wedge.

I think the article was updated-Cobra looks to be 28 points today.

Did not realize that. Edited my previous post accordingly.

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

EDIT: Especially given that we know for sure there was an error in the Hound's Tooth image?

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

Only if you think that 9/11 was an inside job....

I am sure they do read through and consider though. just not directly implement.

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

Only if you think that 9/11 was an inside job....

I am sure they do read through and consider though. just not directly implement.

The day FFG start listening to 99.9% of this forums ideas (mine included) is the day the game dies a horrible, screaming death.....

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

Only if you think that 9/11 was an inside job....

I am sure they do read through and consider though. just not directly implement.

The day FFG start listening to 99.9% of this forums ideas (mine included) is the day the game dies a horrible, screaming death.....

Infinite number of monkeys + infinite amount of time dude.

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

EDIT: Especially given that we know for sure there was an error in the Hound's Tooth image?

I think if anything useful from these forums could be found by FFG, it is only the opinions and attitudes of a handful of players.

Did I really say "useful"?

I think FFG listens to the extent that we can point out problem areas. Pinpointing the exact problem, and coming up with good solutions is mostly beyond this- or any other player- group.

But I will say that it tickles me to think that they had been internally debating the costs of the K-can't-spell-it and read our reactions to it to see what we thought. I'm gonna say there's roughly 0.00314569273% chance of that.

I am personally interested in why they've been updating the images through the week. I'd have thought the design of Wave 7 was finalized months ago. That gives them plenty of time to come up with accurate pictures for us.

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

EDIT: Especially given that we know for sure there was an error in the Hound's Tooth image?

personally, I think they do read the forums

but instead of abiding by our claims, they just send images with the wrong values to completely **** with us

"So here is the scum X-wing, priced exactly the same as that inefficient ship--PSYCH! It's cheaper!"

I always thought it said 28.

personally, I think they do read the forums

but instead of abiding by our claims, they just send images with the wrong values to completely **** with us

"So here is the scum X-wing, priced exactly the same as that inefficient ship--PSYCH! It's cheaper!"

And thought the K-Wing was the ship of trolls!

So Cobra is 28. 3 things: 1 FFG listens 2 Generic gets closer to 20 points 3 Zero has to redo all his math

"FFG listens" implies that they saw a couple of threads on the forum and thought "Hey, those anonymous strangers are right! We should skip all the design and playtesting we did and make everything cheaper." Does that seem like the most reasonable hypothesis?

EDIT: Especially given that we know for sure there was an error in the Hound's Tooth image?

Shh, you'll hurt the internet's feelings with all this "reason" and "logic."

I always thought it said 28.

It did... Not sure why people thought it was 29, maybe they are trying to make it to be Wes/Wedge comparison? No idea.