I think the Vaksai is WAY too E-Wing-ish (I think that may be why they went for the forward cockpit variant of this one as well)

As for the Dunelizard, I love the look of it, but what would it do? Everything I have found about it says, essentially, "it's a Scyk but better." However, I think there is potential for a title like the Heavy Scyk that could give you either a crew or salvaged astromech. Still, outside of looks, how is it not a Scyk with more shields?

Oh, and PtL and engine upgrade on Cobra Commander should be fun. Still would rather have astromechs than illicit. Green 3's with an x-wing dial and that load out would be pretty amazing.

Why are we cheering that this thing is a scum X-Wing, if everyone is complaining that the rebel X-Wing is underpowered and/or unplayable?

Why are we cheering that this thing is a scum X-Wing, if everyone is complaining that the rebel X-Wing is underpowered and/or unplayable?

its a negative feedback loop.

Why are we cheering that this thing is a scum X-Wing, if everyone is complaining that the rebel X-Wing is underpowered and/or unplayable?

Because if it is 1-2 points cheaper as a base, it will be what everyone wants from the X-Wng.

I think the Vaksai is WAY too E-Wing-ish (I think that may be why they went for the forward cockpit variant of this one as well)

As for the Dunelizard, I love the look of it, but what would it do? Everything I have found about it says, essentially, "it's a Scyk but better." However, I think there is potential for a title like the Heavy Scyk that could give you either a crew or salvaged astromech. Still, outside of looks, how is it not a Scyk with more shields?

You make some very good observations here. I was surprised by this version too. The HWK-290 art had style two on it... dunno. It still may come out.

if everyone is complaining that the rebel X-Wing is underpowered and/or unplayable?

The X-Wing is only underpowered compared to the B-Wing. If the B-Wing was more expensive than the X-Wing would still have a place in Rebel fleets.

Seeing how there's nothing S&V side comparable to the B-Wing then something that is on par with the X-Wing is fairly good.

I don't see how anyone can say the S&V X-Wing is bad, when the the only thing it has to compare to, is other S&V ships. That's like saying the B-Wing is bad because of the Tie Phantom.

As a mainly rebel player, I would like to see this for scum. I still run x-wings. The game is called X-wing. I feel bad when I do not see them at all. Yesterday I ran up against Two A wings, two x-wings and a B-wing, all unnamed. Got my butt kicked because I could not chew threw the shields fast enough. I ran a IG, Scum Boba and two Z's. X-wings can still hang as a fighter. Four decked out X-wings still kick butt, even in a meta of two large ships and the Phantom.

I think the Vaksai is WAY too E-Wing-ish (I think that may be why they went for the forward cockpit variant of this one as well)

As for the Dunelizard, I love the look of it, but what would it do? Everything I have found about it says, essentially, "it's a Scyk but better." However, I think there is potential for a title like the Heavy Scyk that could give you either a crew or salvaged astromech. Still, outside of looks, how is it not a Scyk with more shields?

Yeah, the Dunelizard makes more sense because it is a lower agility (which the new Kihraxz is), higher firepower (which the new Kihraxz is) more resilient (which the Kihraxz is) version of the Scyk (whose paint job the Kihraxz stole despite being Black Sun). So, that's how I think it fits better.

if everyone is complaining that the rebel X-Wing is underpowered and/or unplayable?

The X-Wing is only underpowered compared to the B-Wing. If the B-Wing was more expensive than the X-Wing would still have a place in Rebel fleets.

Seeing how there's nothing S&V side comparable to the B-Wing then something that is on par with the X-Wing is fairly good.

I don't see how anyone can say the S&V X-Wing is bad, when the the only thing it has to compare to, is other S&V ships. That's like saying the B-Wing is bad because of the Tie Phantom.

No, the x-wing is underpowered compared to the tie fighter, the a-wing, the z-95, the y-wing... The list goes on. You can practically name a ship and know it is more worth its points than an x-wing with a few exceptions.

The crux of the matter is cost effectiveness. With no actions for repositioning (no barrel roll or boost stock), the ship has to rely on being able to beat other ships in a slug-out, but you are not getting much for the points you pay.

PS 6:

When .....

is? in?.....

The generic is PS 5, he might have an EPT as well...

No, the x-wing is underpowered compared to the tie fighter, the a-wing, the z-95, the y-wing...

No it actually isn't. Look at MajorJugglers numbers and you'll see it's not that bad of a ship. No where near as bad as you claim it is.

It's not as cost effective as Tie Fighters or B-Wings, but it's better then Y-Wings, HWK's and a host of other ships.

Also the pilot abilities make and break the X-Wing, and it looks like the ones we know about for the kihraxz are pretty good, well worth the points.

I'd rate the Y-wing over the X-wing myself, at least for generics.

For elite pilots then yeah fair enough.

Also the pilot abilities make and break the X-Wing, and it looks like the ones we know about for the kihraxz are pretty good, well worth the points.

Indeed. Biggs and Wedge aren't bad for a start.

Indeed. Biggs and Wedge aren't bad for a start.

Or Tarn with R7.

Point is, the X-Wing is not nearly as bad as some people are claiming. And while it is about a point or two overcost, that is largely an issue because of the B-Wing.

In a faction with no B-Wing, or other heavy assault fighter, the kihraxz looks like it could find a comfortable place in many lists.

Points wise, you get a PS9 for 29 points vs 30 for Guri who's only PS5. Sure you miss out on boost and barrel roll, but there's no question that the PS9's special ability is pretty killer. 5 dice at range 1? 4 dice at range 3? Yes please.

No, the x-wing is underpowered compared to the tie fighter, the a-wing, the z-95, the y-wing...

No it actually isn't. Look at MajorJugglers numbers and you'll see it's not that bad of a ship. No where near as bad as you claim it is.

It's not as cost effective as Tie Fighters or B-Wings, but it's better then Y-Wings, HWK's and a host of other ships.

Also the pilot abilities make and break the X-Wing, and it looks like the ones we know about for the kihraxz are pretty good, well worth the points.

Major Juggler's numbers put the joust efficiency of the rookie pilot at 88% there is a short list of ships with less joust efficiency, and they have either turrets or autoinclude upgrades that put it above x-wing in value. His predicted value for the PS 2 is 18.4 points. Actual cost is 21 points. As far as pilot abilities go, only biggs and wedge are within 1.5 points of their predicted values. Did you even read his thread?

No, the x-wing is underpowered compared to the tie fighter, the a-wing, the z-95, the y-wing...

No it actually isn't. Look at MajorJugglers numbers and you'll see it's not that bad of a ship. No where near as bad as you claim it is.

It's not as cost effective as Tie Fighters or B-Wings, but it's better then Y-Wings, HWK's and a host of other ships.

Also the pilot abilities make and break the X-Wing, and it looks like the ones we know about for the kihraxz are pretty good, well worth the points.

Major Juggler's numbers put the joust efficiency of the rookie pilot at 88% there is a short list of ships with less joust efficiency, and they have either turrets or autoinclude upgrades that put it above x-wing in value. His predicted value for the PS 2 is 18.4 points. Actual cost is 21 points. As far as pilot abilities go, only biggs and wedge are within 1.5 points of their predicted values. Did you even read his thread?

Reading gets in the way of making an argument. Out of here with your reading and logical debate!

And yes, X-Wings are bad or overpointed, depending on your viewpoint. They certainly aren't ok.

Right. Let's accept the X-wing is not performing quite as well as it should.

The question now becomes, how could the Kihraxz avoid this?

1- Cheaper: Talonbane is 1 point cheaper than Wedge and Vader. If the Generic Kihraxz is at least 1 point cheaper than the Advanced and the X-wing, 5x Kihraxz suddenly becomes possible, and that could be a pretty threatening list.

2- Better dial: 1-Hard turn and a 1-Straight could make the ship a pretty effective dogfighter. More greens and an s-loop could also give it an edge

3-The Black ________ (Probably Sun, but who can say for sure) Pilot is PS 5, which recalls the Tanseri Point Veteran. Perhaps it will have an EPT?

Did you even read his thread?

Yes I did, did you?

You said the Y-Wing is better, but it's not.

The PS2 X-Wing is 88.3%

The PS2 Y-Wing is 83.5%

The PS1 A-Wing is 82.8%

All the YT-1300 are under 80%

All the HWK-290's are under 80%

All the E-Wings are under 80%

In the Rebel faction there are 2 ships with better jousting values then the X-Wing. the B-Wing and the Z-95. Some ships get better with given upgrades, but those upgrades are not given, or increase the cost.

I'd hardly call 5 out of 7 ships a short list. But hey continue with your pointless ranting, doesn't matter to me. It's not like you have facts to back up your points.

But anyways, what is the likelyhood of that PS 5 generic having an EPT?

what is the likelyhood of that PS 5 generic having an EPT?

Based on other S&V pilots, fairly good.

I still use Garvin Dries in the X-wing to pass his focus off to Jake Farrell.

Did you even read his thread?

Yes I did, did you?

You said the Y-Wing is better, but it's not.

The PS2 X-Wing is 88.3%

The PS2 Y-Wing is 83.5%

The PS1 A-Wing is 82.8%

All the YT-1300 are under 80%

All the HWK-290's are under 80%

All the E-Wings are under 80%

In the Rebel faction there are 2 ships with better jousting values then the X-Wing. the B-Wing and the Z-95. Some ships get better with given upgrades, but those upgrades are not given, or increase the cost.

I'd hardly call 5 out of 7 ships a short list. But hey continue with your pointless ranting, doesn't matter to me. It's not like you have facts to back up your points.

You're citing different metrics. Zero is citing the predicted points cost, which for the x-wing is rather horrendous. You're citing the Jousting Value, which for the X-wing isn't bad compared to large based ships or the Hawk- but then, The z-95, B-wing, and X-wing are the three rebel jousting ships, so you're saying that the X-wing is a better jouster than non-jousters... Which is not exactly a great endorsement.

So, you both have facts, it's just you're using different ones in your argument.

That being said, you're not looking at the Jousting Value for A-wings with Chardaan Refit or for BTL-A4 Y-wings, both of which exceed that of the X-wing.

You're citing different metrics.

Doesn't really matter, because we're not actually talking about an X-Wing here, and I don't wish to derail this thread into a debate about X-Wings.

The Kihraxz looks to fill a role that the S&V doesn't really have anything for currently. A heavy assault/jousting fighter. None of the current ships in S&V work in that role, and so the Kihraxz looks to be a good ship for this faction.

Did you even read his thread?

Yes I did, did you?

You said the Y-Wing is better, but it's not.

The PS2 X-Wing is 88.3%

The PS2 Y-Wing is 83.5%

The PS1 A-Wing is 82.8%

All the YT-1300 are under 80%

All the HWK-290's are under 80%

All the E-Wings are under 80%

In the Rebel faction there are 2 ships with better jousting values then the X-Wing. the B-Wing and the Z-95. Some ships get better with given upgrades, but those upgrades are not given, or increase the cost.

I'd hardly call 5 out of 7 ships a short list. But hey continue with your pointless ranting, doesn't matter to me. It's not like you have facts to back up your points.

-PS2 Y-wing with the BTL-A4 and ion are around 100% joust efficient, not actually beaten by generic x-wings in joust efficiency

-PS1 A-wing with refit is 93.8% joust efficient, also not being beaten.

Ships 'beaten' in joust efficiency by the x-wing:

-YT-1300s that aren't the generic are less joust efficient without upgrades, indeed, but are within a point of their predicted values or exceed it because of the turret and dial considerations

-rebel HWKs are not a great value across the board and see use that hardly makes them a standard for being a good ship

-YT-2400s are great value with cannon and outrider plus they skirt around the same joust efficiency of the x-wing while still having a turret and barrel roll on the action bar

-generic e-wings are in a similar boat in that they are overcosted

If you want to start going across factions to imperials,

-generic x-wings are beating the tie advanced...until the raider comes out

-they're neck and neck with generic interceptors on joust efficiency, though interceptors also benefit from having boost and barrel roll. Overall they are closer to their predicted value than x-wings are.

-imperial firesprays and defenders are not quite as joust efficient, but MJ has even flagged their predicted values orange, meaning he believes those numbers are suspect due to their unique non-jousting features

-phantoms unupgraded are about as bad a value as x-wings, but quickly exceed as you add the practically autoinclude

-decimator has the same story as the yt-1300s

and in scum,

-scum hwks are in the same boat as rebels, except the elite ones actually beat x-wing joust efficiency and are good values

-scum firesprays skirt around similar numbers for joust efficiency, but has a much better predicted value close to the printed cost

-starviper generics are also overcosted by ~2 points

Every other ship in the game has a better joust efficiency out of the box. Out of these ships that have lower joust efficiency, they still make it closer to their predicted values for non-joust considerations like turrets or repositioning actions with exceptions of non-scum hwks, generic starvipers, generic defenders, generic big turret ships, generic unupgraded phantoms and generic e-wings. None of the aforementioned ships are within the same role of x-wing either or see much use. X-wing is literally worst in class of all jousting ships in-game.