So we played our first game with Pegasus yesterday. We had 5 players, and one selected Cavil, so got one of the "hostile" 5 player agendas.

It might be that we were missing a rule, but an infiltrated Cavil seems immensely powerful. While infiltrated, he can still Primacy up a whole bunch of Cylons and walk around brigging/executing people. And he can still Primacy from the brig. There didn't seem to be any reason for him to ever STOP infiltrating, and in the worst case scenario he just sits on the Resurrection Ship until his next turn (and you've wasted a human action executing him, and likely two human actions brigging him first then executing him.)

The agenda seems to make it so that the Cylon Leader player is playing an entirely different game than the other four players, which just happens to be played using the same gameboard, and there seems to be very little you can do about it as one of the other four players.

So we're thinking we were missing something obvious that slows the Cylon Leaders down?

Well, first off Brigging and Executions are not automatic. You have to pass a skill check for both, and Cavil as an infiltrating Cylon Leader can only put at most two cards into any skill check. This makes it incredibly dificult for him to do on his own already, and all you have to do is throw in a negative card or two into the check and it is pretty much guaranteed to fail.

And while Cavil is in the Brig his options are pretty limited. Now he can only put at most one skill card into any check, and his only actions available to him are:

• Adding and removing ships with Primacy.
• Try to break out (which is next to impossible without the help of the human players).
• Use whatever actions he has on his non-treachery cards (remember he can only use treachery while he is not infiltrating) so he is probably going to be playing "Launch Scout" a lot.
• Or he can waste a whole turn going back to the Ressurection Ship, discard down to three cards (since he stopped infiltrating in the Brig) and then only draw only one card on his next turn.

antherem said:

Well, the irony is that he's far worse off if you brig him rather than execution (as DCAnderson said). If you Brig Cavil, he has to spend his action to get out, discard down to three cards, and then go to the resurrection ship. There, he receives one skill card, and can go to the human fleet to try again. It ends up being worse than a zero sum game for Cavil, assuming the Admiral's Quarters is successful: Cavil has to spend an action to infiltrate, and an action to check out once he's placed in the brig, while it only takes one human action to brig him. Cavil remaining in the brig isn't really an option for the person who plays him; you can primacy all you want, but even a single pilot will make all that disappear. Launching scout in the brig is another silly maneuver for Cavil; if he leaves the crisis on top of the deck, the next player simply launches another scout. Moreover, he could have accomplished that while at the human fleet location, without a die roll.

By executing him, you're sparing him the action to return to the resurrection ship. Even in the case of execution, it seems difficult for him to execute/brig people when he loses his hand when he gets executed, and only picks up one skill card at the resurrection ship.

Primacy does not matter in the final analysis; he could have done that while he wasn't infiltrating even if it is an action he could have taken while in the brig.

DCAnderson said:

There seemed to be more of a problem with his reactions than with his actions - for instance, he'd Evasive Maneuvers on a viper that had been missed so that it got damaged/destroyed, Strategic Planning so that he could add 2 to the die roll of a Cylon Raider or a Basestar, or intentionally make skill checks Reckless so that he could ditch a reckless-bomb. (It didn't help that nobody seemed to want to repair vipers.)

Of course, now that I think about it, I'm trying to remember how he got hold of Piloting cards...

antherem said:

If he got his hands on a Consolidate Power (Colonial One, draw Politics cards), he can get Piloting with that. Especially if he keeps drawing Politics cards first so he can constantly Consolidate Power, although that takes a lot of actions.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that you can't use strat planning on cylon ship rolls. This was before Pegasus. I think it was basically a question of an unrevealed cylon wanting to boost a raider's roll. I can't find the source now.

The only strong moves Cavil will have (assuming he wants the cylons to win) is that he can use FTL, and if you let him stick around until New Caprica he can use Resistance HQ and Breeder's Canyon. Keep in mind that in the 5 player game Cavil's whole purpose may be to get himself executed ... with or without your help. If you do execute him (and he doesn't like you) he can use his once per game to draw 3 super crises (rather than the two he would get if that's how he wanted to use his once per game any way).

The benefits to you: while he's infiltrating he can't push the centurions (note that his once per game can be used to activate cylon fleet 3 times if that's where he is), he can't use treachery cards for their abilities, and he is affected by negative results of crisis cards. Remember that all he can draw without consolidating power is purple/blue/treachery, and you should keep track of whether he's choosing blue, treachery, or a mix.

My guess is that Cavil isn't the problem, you're probably not adjusted to the New Caprica objective yet. Population is now vital and fuel and food are less important. Keep in mind that you want to be on New Caprica for as few turns as you can safely manage.

mbggrq said:

Haven't tried the expansion yet, but my experience in the base game is food already being the least important resource by far. We ran into a never ending string of food shortage crises and still it was never our scarcest resource. Population was still vital: the most commonly lost resource after morale.

mbggrq said:

Please tell me more about how Cavil can draw 3 SCs, or activate Cylon Fleet 3 times. I'm intrigued.

His once per game lets him take 2 Actions in place of his Movement step.

Locutus Zero said:

Ooh! In place of his Movement step!! I see! That's really 3 actions.