So I'm looking through the preview for the ordnance fix.

There's Extra Munitions, which is effectively 2 points to double the shot of every equipped munition. That's missiles, torpedoes and bombs. However, unlike a fix card you only get one copy per expansion, which I can't say overjoys me. You'd think them being plus size packs you'd get two like we did with Autothrusters.

So what does Extra Munitions do?

Its most obvious benefit is for the K-wing, TIE punisher and TIE bomber. Double bombs for the TIE bomber for two points, and any other missile or torpedo it chooses to equip doubled. I think the loaded TIE bomber just became amazing: it can now carry so much stuff it'll likely never need to use its primary and for a reasonable price too. The TIE interdictor can carry, with Extra Munitions, a grand total of four bombs, four missiles and two torpedoes. The K-wing gets one less missile slot. It l

Other ships benefit less. The Y-wing and B-wing can double their torpedo (or bomb for the Y-wing) for two points, essentially reducing the cost of Proton Torpedoes to 3, Ion Torpedoes to 3.5 and Advanced Proton Torpedoes to 6. This essentially constitutes a four point discount on the APT Nera. The VT-49 can, for two points, carry a second bomb, and with the Slave I title the Firespray can double its bomb and missile capacity (although for maximum bombing you still need the Andrasta title).

The Z-95, X-wing, TIE advanced and A-wing get nothing ordnance-wise from this wave. Their ordnance slots remain junk. Or do they?

I said a few posts that while I expected a rules change or maybe a modification, I wouldn't be surprised if FFG decided that a mechanical change wouldn't do the trick. This wave comes with a lot of new torpedoes. While they can't use the Conner Ne, Cluster Mine or Ion Bomb, the Advanced Homing Missiles and Plasma Torpedoes may be intended as cheap, viable and effective ordnance in the vein of Flechette Torpedoes.

So yeah, I'm not sure where the ordnance fix stands: the ol' X-wing with a proton torpedo still seems as bad an idea as ever. There's definitely some awesome new stuff in here, but I can't see this Wave making ordnance something you'd include on a non-bomber based on the current information.

This is definitely a bomber fix, but for me, the jury is out on an ordnance fix until we see what Advanced Homing Missiles and Plasma Torpedoes do.

This is not the fix people were looking for. The designers were clearly thinking, how to make it more appealing to take ordnance on the ships with plenty of ordnance slots.

Another great example of where people's expectations got too high.

Its most obvious benefit is for the K-wing, TIE punisher and TIE bomber. Double bombs for the TIE bomber for two points, and any other missile or torpedo it chooses to equip doubled. I think the loaded TIE bomber just became amazing: it can now carry so much stuff it'll likely never need to use its primary and for a reasonable price too. The TIE interdictor can carry, with Extra Munitions, a grand total of four bombs, four missiles and two torpedoes. The K-wing gets one less missile slot.

I would just note that loading-up one ship with all of those bombs is still a terrible idea, because the Extra Munitions card only adds value - it doesn't directly discount (in fact, it directly increases the cost of the ship). Your 'discount' munitions are still an expensive portion of your 100 point budget, and frankly, a lot of it is going to go unused. How many turns do you think you can keep that fully loaded bomber alive? My bet is going to be on 'not enough turns to deploy the bombs in useful places'.

This is the fix I was looking for. For Y-wings, take bomb load-out and extra munitions, 2 proton bombs that are cheaper than normal

8 points for 2 advanced proton torpedoes on my turreted torpedo B-wing? Sure! 6 points for two concussion missiles? Great! The TIE bomber will have a field day with this.

The K-wing was better than I expected, especially that pilot ability. Holy crap.

It's not an ordnance fix, at least not for existing ordnance.

It pays off for bombers with expensive bombs or missiles, or if you take more than two bombs (Scum Firesprays with Andrasta title will be happy).

For other ships ... well, X-s get no benefit. Y's benefit sort of. B-wings with flechette torpedoes are a wash against another flechette torps.

So while it is fun for isolcated circumstances, it's not enough. Had it been one point instead of two (and thus not equal to just a second seismic charge or flechette torpedo) I'd be a little more excited.

It's not an ordnance fix, at least not for existing ordnance.

It pays off for bombers with expensive bombs or missiles, or if you take more than two bombs (Scum Firesprays with Andrasta title will be happy).

For other ships ... well, X-s get no benefit. Y's benefit sort of. B-wings with flechette torpedoes are a wash against another flechette torps.

So while it is fun for isolcated circumstances, it's not enough. Had it been one point instead of two (and thus not equal to just a second seismic charge or flechette torpedo) I'd be a little more excited.

1 point for this upgrade would have been undercosted. You forget that it gives you a second 4 or 5 point missle/torp/bomb for each you have equipped. 2 seems very fair

This is not the fix people were looking for. The designers were clearly thinking, how to make it more appealing to take ordnance on the ships with plenty of ordnance slots.

Another great example of where people's expectations got too high.

You are right it is not what people wanted, but (barring "Redline") the fundamental problem with Missiles and Torps is that the are not consistent enough, giving a "Buy 1, get 1 half price" voucher is almost pointless if you don't want to buy the first one in the first place.

The fix is in another castle.

To quote myself from Crabbok's thread: "Not sure on this fix, because it doesn't address some of the fundamental problems with ordnance; namely the difficulty for low-PS pilots in acquiring target locks in the first engagement, and the poor action economy involved in spending target locks to fire many missiles and torpedoes (which lowers overall damage and thus cost effectiveness).

It does fix the problem of ordnance being a 1-shot proposition, but at a price. And although it scales up for multiple ordnance upgrades, that means your ship is going to be relatively pricey. Final judgement reserved until we see more, especially the new torpedoes/missiles and bombs, but I don't think this card is going to fix our little ordnance problem by itself. "

The fix is in another castle.

Didn't want to like this, because I like the fix thus far (have to play it to confirm), but wanted to let you know I actually LOL'ed.

It is possible that, like the TIE phantom, the fix is an actual rule change and we'll have to wait for the next FAQ.

Could be that the new missile and torpedo are meant to be cheap ordnance.

Or it could be that this is what we're getting and despite the ordnance wave's awesomeness the humble proton torp shall forevermore be a dust magnet.

The problem with ordnance has always been the horrible action economy. This is a fix the same was Munitions Failsafe is a fix. It's not. It's a trap, that will convince you to spend more points and waste more turns on inefficient, difficult attacks.

If this weren't the case, the top Punisher pilot wouldn't have an ability that directly addresses the action economy issue.

Well, it does more than nothing on B, Y, Bomber, Slave-1, and Decimator, as well as the Wave 7 ships.

It's better on the ones with Bombs, as it is simultaneously more powerful an upgrade (as Torpedo ships sacrifice a slot to gain the doubling, and therefore only get the discount), and Bombs are historically better worth their points.

Coupled with Munitions Failsafe....

Y wing + Ion Torp + Additional Ion Torp for only 2 points + muntions failsafe

Noice.

I'm pretty happy with it. A cost discount ("buy one, get one with X% off" is a discount).

I don't think the problem with X-wings are in terms of their ordnance. The X-wing may need a different fix, but it is definitely a fix for the poor TIE Bomber, which I'll be dusting off even before Wave 7 hits (though maybe not just yet, as I've just gotten a new list to play).

My only (slight) gripe is that we only get one of these cards per TIE Punisher/K-wing. I do think that 'fix' cards (e.g. autothrusters) should come with multiple per pack, so that you can equip it on the ship you buy and another ship to fix.

If this weren't the case, the top Punisher pilot wouldn't have an ability that directly addresses the action economy issue.

And to further compound the issue, because the double TL effect has now has been used as the premier Punisher pilot ability, it is unlikely that it will be generalized in a rules amendment or upgrade card (as it should have been)

It's not an ordnance fix, at least not for existing ordnance.

It pays off for bombers with expensive bombs or missiles, or if you take more than two bombs (Scum Firesprays with Andrasta title will be happy).

For other ships ... well, X-s get no benefit. Y's benefit sort of. B-wings with flechette torpedoes are a wash against another flechette torps.

So while it is fun for isolcated circumstances, it's not enough. Had it been one point instead of two (and thus not equal to just a second seismic charge or flechette torpedo) I'd be a little more excited.

Firesprays have to take Slave 1 title to get a torp slot. No Extra Munitions + Andrasta shenanigans.

It's not an ordnance fix, at least not for existing ordnance.It pays off for bombers with expensive bombs or missiles, or if you take more than two bombs (Scum Firesprays with Andrasta title will be happy)......

I thought the same, but it would also require the Slave title for the top slot. Doesn't help Andrasta, but helps The Slave.

I wanted something to make ordnance easier to use frankly.

I'm pretty happy with it. A cost discount ("buy one, get one with X% off" is a discount)

Y-Wing With Ion Torpedo: 25 Points.

Y-Wing With Ion Torpedo + Extra Munitions: 27 points.

...How is this a discount, again? Bear in mind that buying two Ion Torpedoes is not even an option, and assuming you could do it, would you? Also bear in mind that the second shot you bought for 2 points is actually worth less than the first shot to begin with, because it's going to be much harder to meet the parameters for the shot (or to survive long enough to shoot it).

I'm pretty happy with it. A cost discount ("buy one, get one with X% off" is a discount)

Y-Wing With Ion Torpedo: 25 Points.

Y-Wing With Ion Torpedo + Extra Munitions: 27 points.

...How is this a discount, again? Bear in mind that buying two Ion Torpedoes is not even an option, and assuming you could do it, would you? Also bear in mind that the second shot you bought for 2 points is actually worth less than the first shot to begin with, because it's going to be much harder to meet the parameters for the shot (or to survive long enough to shoot it).

why are you so dead set on the idea that you cannot get two similar shots off in a row?

I really don't think this upgrade will be crazy good en masse but if it fills a roll on one of your ships you field, then maybe your other two use stress or Ions to control how your opponent moves, making it very easy to get multiple shots off in a row.

Get on the tail end of a turret ship and it isn't going to turn to face you, it's just going to run and shoot you, making it easy to stay at range 2-3.

I don't think the problem with X-wings are in terms of their ordnance. The X-wing may need a different fix, but it is definitely a fix for the poor TIE Bomber, which I'll be dusting off even before Wave 7 hits (though maybe not just yet, as I've just gotten a new list to play).

True, but at the same time proton torpedoes are *the* iconic ordnance (whether from the OT or the X-wing game) and it would be nice to make using them worthwhile on something besides a TIE bomber. With the action economy, I'm not even sure they're worth it there.

Extra munitions could have been zero points and it wouldn't have fixed ordnance because of action economy.

I'm pretty happy with it. A cost discount ("buy one, get one with X% off" is a discount)

Y-Wing With Ion Torpedo: 25 Points.

Y-Wing With Ion Torpedo + Extra Munitions: 27 points.

...How is this a discount, again? Bear in mind that buying two Ion Torpedoes is not even an option, and assuming you could do it, would you? Also bear in mind that the second shot you bought for 2 points is actually worth less than the first shot to begin with, because it's going to be much harder to meet the parameters for the shot (or to survive long enough to shoot it).

I'm just going to say that your experiences do not match my own.

Also, the Ion Torpedo is sort of a bad example, as it will be the easiest one to get multiple shots off of.

Firesprays have to take Slave 1 title to get a torp slot. No Extra Munitions + Andrasta shenanigans.

D'oh! Good catch, thanks. But it would have been quite fun on Andrasta!

It's not an ordnance fix, at least not for existing ordnance.

It pays off for bombers with expensive bombs or missiles, or if you take more than two bombs (Scum Firesprays with Andrasta title will be happy).

For other ships ... well, X-s get no benefit. Y's benefit sort of. B-wings with flechette torpedoes are a wash against another flechette torps.

So while it is fun for isolcated circumstances, it's not enough. Had it been one point instead of two (and thus not equal to just a second seismic charge or flechette torpedo) I'd be a little more excited.

1 point for this upgrade would have been undercosted. You forget that it gives you a second 4 or 5 point missle/torp/bomb for each you have equipped. 2 seems very fair

1 point would have been overcosted for some ordnance out there on ships that aren't the tie bomber or one of the new wave 7 ships. Just because you get a second missile/torp/bomb that has a printed cost of 4 or 5 doesn't mean it is worth 4 or 5 points, possibly not even 2 points. And that a second would be worth as much.

It's not an ordnance fix, at least not for existing ordnance.

It pays off for bombers with expensive bombs or missiles, or if you take more than two bombs (Scum Firesprays with Andrasta title will be happy).

For other ships ... well, X-s get no benefit. Y's benefit sort of. B-wings with flechette torpedoes are a wash against another flechette torps.

So while it is fun for isolcated circumstances, it's not enough. Had it been one point instead of two (and thus not equal to just a second seismic charge or flechette torpedo) I'd be a little more excited.

1 point for this upgrade would have been undercosted. You forget that it gives you a second 4 or 5 point missle/torp/bomb for each you have equipped. 2 seems very fair

1 point would have been overcosted for some ordnance out there on ships that aren't the tie bomber or one of the new wave 7 ships. Just because you get a second missile/torp/bomb that has a printed cost of 4 or 5 doesn't mean it is worth 4 or 5 points, possibly not even 2 points. And that a second would be worth as much.

Do you use Jonus with your torps? what about homing missiles? Proton Rockets? There are a variety of ways missiles and torps are great when stacked in pairs just currently we haven't had a way to do it. I don't think getting them off will be much of an issue as people seem to be making it. Shooting a cluster missile is better than just shooting 3 dice isn't it? You have to remember that for every time you roll 0 hits you will eventually roll all hits.