22 points gets you a bomber with double proton torpedo, seems pretty playable to me

Tie Bombers are cheaper... but yeah. Punishers look like souped up Bombers. My poor Bombers aren't gonna see that much play are they. =(

If the cheapest Punisher is 21, then that's 5 points more than the cheapest Bomber. You can now run two Proximity Mines for that much. You can run two Proton Rockets for that much (and the Punisher is noticeably worse at Proton Rockets than the Bomber). You can almost run two Cluster Missiles for that much.

Frankly, I'm not worried about the TIE Bomber being pushed out of the game; I'm worried about people having few reasons to spend the extra points for the Punisher.

Try 4 of those with prox mines.. hehehehehe bomber fun just got... more fun...

Try 4 of those with prox mines.. hehehehehe bomber fun just got... more fun...

5 Scimitars with Seismics and Extra Munitions.

With 10 Seismic Charges, who needs attack power?

Maximum damage from those? 10 times the number of ships on the table.

That is some high potential. I'm loving the bomber options..

This debate is all pretty analogous of the X-wing to B-wing evolution. Both lost 1 agility, gained 3 shields, a system slot, and more ordnance slots. The X-wing got shoved out. But the difference is, the B-wing was only 1 point more.

I don't really see the same thing happening here with a 5 point difference. More likely bombers will continue to be taken with minimum upgrades--keeping them at or below 20 points. Whereas, with TIE Punishers, you'll see them taken as missile boats and will end up near 30 points.

There won't really be an overlap in function or in cost, so I don't think the punisher will force out the bomber. If anything, the generic TIE advanced will push out the bomber as it will be a much more consistent ship for a similar price range.

2 points in support of the old Bomber.

1. A loaded up Punisher will attract attention and will probably be explodified before it can unload all of it goodies. That means wasted points.

2. It is Original Trilogy .. therefore, it will ALWAYS have a place on my table.

If Jonus, then Clusters (or Flechettes for price).

3 scimitars with Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, and Cluster Missiles

Captain Jonus

= 100 on the nose.

Expected damage is 2.25 per attack, times 6 attacks, + 1.5 damage from Jonus' attack.

This continues for 4 rounds, or until Jonus is dead.

In a single round, that's an expectation of 15 rolled damage.

Times 4 rounds, that's 60 expected damage.

ah. aHAHah. Haha.

What's the Falcon's precious little Threepio going to do about that???

surrender is a perfectly acceptable alternative......

OK….I’ve spent all morning so far thinking about all of this and the Tie Bomber. I’ve been deflated by the “fix” of Extra Munitions. Thinking about it overall and Vorpal Sword saying a thing or two does level me out.

For one, there will be a place for both a cheap Scimitar Bomber and a fancier Punisher w/ upgrades. The Tie Bomber will still have a place as a cheap weapons platform. It’s the cheapest Imperial ship with access to lots of bombs, missiles, and torpedoes. Extra Munitions just makes it able to carry even more.

You will need to watch out for the trap of carrying too much on a single Bomber. If you load it down with too much, it just makes it an easy target to destroy for a lot of points (without using it’s ordnance).

If you want to go with 4 Tie Bombers, I don’t think Jonus is worth it anymore. If you go with 4 w/ Homing Missiles & EM then you end up with enough points for 2 Seismic Charges left over. To me, Jonus because LESS necessary.

The option of a single Tie Bomber to add some control to an Imperial list just went up immensely. How about a Scimitar w/ Ion Pulse Missile, Flechette Torpedoes, and EM for only 23 pts? You get Ion Pulse Missiles that will Ionize a big ship in one shot…and you don’t lose the TL. Next, you get the Flechette shots that will stress out a target. You want to add an extra point for Munitions Failsafe? This gives you a cheap ship that can really counter a lot of important enemy ships. It’s still cheap enough that if it dies fast, you don’t lose too much. It is also a ship that will take a lot of shots before it dies.

I think adding in a single Bomber got better. I think there are still a lot of options for the Tie Bomber.

The option of a single Tie Bomber to add some control to an Imperial list just went up immensely. How about a Scimitar w/ Ion Pulse Missile, Flechette Torpedoes, and EM for only 23 pts? You get Ion Pulse Missiles that will Ionize a big ship in one shot…and you don’t lose the TL. Next, you get the Flechette shots that will stress out a target. You want to add an extra point for Munitions Failsafe? This gives you a cheap ship that can really counter a lot of important enemy ships. It’s still cheap enough that if it dies fast, you don’t lose too much. It is also a ship that will take a lot of shots before it dies.

Oh, that's NICE. And enough of an offensive threat that your opponent will probably send some attacks its way that all else being equal would have been directed at the sexier, more expensive ships in your list.

OK….I’ve spent all morning so far thinking about all of this and the Tie Bomber. I’ve been deflated by the “fix” of Extra Munitions.

Deflated? Disappointed? I was too. I was honestly hoping something really useful would come out of this to encourage more missiles and such on different ships, but I don't see that at all. Really wanted a good reason to equip missiles on my A-Wings...

Tie Bombers are cheaper... but yeah. Punishers look like souped up Bombers. My poor Bombers aren't gonna see that much play are they. =(

If the cheapest Punisher is 21, then that's 5 points more than the cheapest Bomber. You can now run two Proximity Mines for that much. You can run two Proton Rockets for that much (and the Punisher is noticeably worse at Proton Rockets than the Bomber). You can almost run two Cluster Missiles for that much.

Frankly, I'm not worried about the TIE Bomber being pushed out of the game; I'm worried about people having few reasons to spend the extra points for the Punisher.

Spending 5 points to add a systems slot doesn't sound very attractive. Perhaps the punisher has a fantastic dial with its 8 engines?

The TIE punisher has a more durable, shielded frame, a systems slot (Fire Control System and Advanced Sensors + Boost are no slouches for rocketry and bombs respectively, and Accuracy Corrector Cluster Missiles anyone?), and twice as many bomb slots. If you want to do Sable's Proxmine trick, the TIE bomber's still the way to go, and for eight points it can now do it twice.

I get the impression the TIE bomber is the choice when you want a lot of them, and the TIE punisher is more of a lone operator, stacked with weapons and flinging four proton bombs around.

Plus the choice between boost and barrel roll.

OK….I’ve spent all morning so far thinking about all of this and the Tie Bomber. I’ve been deflated by the “fix” of Extra Munitions.

Deflated? Disappointed? I was too. I was honestly hoping something really useful would come out of this to encourage more missiles and such on different ships, but I don't see that at all. Really wanted a good reason to equip missiles on my A-Wings...

Yeah, it is not a fix for ordnance overall. It doesn't even fix the old ordnance for those that can take it. It does give some new options, though.

I'm excited about this because I love flying against Bombers! Wes Janson is getting warmed up and it's about time to bring him back out to play.

I am quite certain FFG tested this out, meaning bombers vs heavy bombers ....

OK….I’ve spent all morning so far thinking about all of this and the Tie Bomber. I’ve been deflated by the “fix” of Extra Munitions.

Deflated? Disappointed? I was too. I was honestly hoping something really useful would come out of this to encourage more missiles and such on different ships, but I don't see that at all. Really wanted a good reason to equip missiles on my A-Wings...

Yeah, it is not a fix for ordnance overall. It doesn't even fix the old ordnance for those that can take it. It does give some new options, though.

Not that a "fix" for ordnance was ever promised - it was assumed by the community.

All that was said was that fans of TIE Bombers are going to love wave 7 ... which is exactly what happened (TIE Bombers got a shot in the arm)

How is it power creep if normal Bombers are 5 points cheaper than a Punisher? That's 5 points of extra munitions you can bring (which actually means something with EM).

There's no exclusivity to it but it seems to me (setting aside point cost) that the Punisher will be a much more viable option for bombs with Boost and the extra slot. So if bombs are your thing and you're adept at using them the Punisher may be for you.

I was worried at first that the Punisher was going to push out the bomber, largely due to the systems upgrade slot making ordinance a LOT scarier (whether bombs with adv sensors/enhanced scopes, or missiles/torps with fire control system). But, as anyone who plays X-Wing knows, the cheaper options of things that work, WILL get played. So, if these multi-shot/bomb ordinance builds work, we will see bombers as well as the Punisher.

I'm excited for the possibilities.

I am not worried for the true TIE Bomber yet. The Bomber is cheaper than the TIE Punisher; making the latter reach my preferred limit of 30-35 points for a small based ship sooner. The Punisher has no Barrel Roll, one of my preferred actions.

I am very interested in twin engines though

They might make the regular Bomber more agile. Just a Bomber with a Bomb and Twin Engines. Could be fun!