That 'fix' is not a fix. It's terrible.

Oh well. :|

Don't be such a Debbie Downer.

It's not the only fix. There are also cheaper munitions. There are also pilots that handle munitions better. There is probably some other cards that aren't fully revealed that will also impact the way munitions work.

What this does, is give you extra shots, for only 2 points. If you run a TIE Bomber, this means 2 points give you +3 shots. If you run a Y-WIng, you can have 2 bombs. It gives a ton of options. Try and look at what it does, rather than what it doesn't do.

How does the existence of more munitions & different pilots fix ordnance in general? It almost does not matter (so long as the stats are sane) how fancy you make a missile - you're still rolling unmodified dice. It's nice that certain pilots have the spare action economy to use ordnance more effectively (which was true even prior to the W7 spoilers), but that's of little help to them as an overall upgrade option.

I posit to you that if a player could just about any current ordnance option at R3 against an opponent and modify the roll, it would probably be worth the points & a viable inclusion in some lists. Having multiple shots is more or less irrelevant - you want them as an R3 option to deny bonus agility dice, and those engagements are not easy to create if your opponent knows what's up.

I don't think it's being a 'Debbie Downer' to say that this looks disappointing and probably won't see a lot of play (though, again, bombers may use it).

The problem I have with ordnance fix isn't so much that it doesn't fix costing, it's that it doesn't make ordnance FUN.

missiles and torps aren't fun, it's rolling the same dice at the same time as a primary attack with the same requirement for being in the firing arc, at the same or worse range of 1-3.

It doesn't feel like a proton torpedo. Firing a torpedo should be like Luke at the end of a new Hope -- hold your breath and squeeze the trigger. Maybe you won't hit, but if it does the result should be devastating. Instead, by the time the blanks are accounted for and the opponent has rolled evades, you're lucky to get one or two hits. Yay.

Oh look, an upgrade that makes ordnance even more expensive.

OK explain the use of the extra munitions card. It is used in the torp, missile, or bomb slot. Is it considered in place of the normal weapon in that slot or in addition to the weapon in the slot?

It uses the slot, just like any other upgrade card. So, if you slot it into the X Wing, for example, you can't then slot an actual torpedo to use it with on the X Wing.

Because game design.

Oh look, an upgrade that makes ordnance even more expensive.

where do you get this? For a 2 points you can get an additional 4-5-6 point missile/torop/bomb on anything you have loaded out

Oh look, an upgrade that makes ordnance even more expensive.

where do you get this? For a 2 points you can get an additional 4-5-6 point missile/torop/bomb on anything you have loaded out

My question is how many of those shots are you getting off? It does scale well the more you spend, but that doesn't change the fact that equipping two missiles and two torpedoes to one ship is a bad idea.

Yeah, I think people were getting their hopes up WAY to high for the ordnance fix.

This does fix the issue of the ships with a lot of ordnance slots of getting real expensive, real quickly. I mean, you can really load out a Bomber now.

If I understand this correctly:

_If equip it on a ship that only has 1 torpedo slot. I dont do anything with it.

_If I equip it on a ship that has 2 torpedo slots. I reduce the cost of the torpedo because im only multiplying the second torpedo.

_For ships that have 3 or more ordnances is a great adition.

I'm curious how this pairs with Munitions Failsafe. Would it prevent you from discarding a token if the attack doesn't hit, since you would discard the token instead of the card?

Oh look, an upgrade that makes ordnance even more expensive.

where do you get this? For a 2 points you can get an additional 4-5-6 point missile/torop/bomb on anything you have loaded out

My question is how many of those shots are you getting off? It does scale well the more you spend, but that doesn't change the fact that equipping two missiles and two torpedoes to one ship is a bad idea.

True and I think it will stay that way but it makes haivng 2 shots cheaper than buying the two outright. You are still slashing the cost of the overall effect. So for 6 points I can get off two shots of a 5 point missile (more if I have munition failsafe) That's two homing missiles that you can't use evade tokens with. 23 Points on the cheapest bomber makes that thing go toe to toe with the B-wing.

Yeah, I think people were getting their hopes up WAY to high for the ordnance fix.

This does fix the issue of the ships with a lot of ordnance slots of getting real expensive, real quickly. I mean, you can really load out a Bomber now.

Again, when are you getting those shots off? Most Ordinance is only useable at very specific ranges. Having two Proton Torpedoes on your Y-wing now means jack $#!% when you can't fire the second one next turn because they're in Range 1. If you try to tell me that doesn't happen often you have clearly not used ordinance very much at all.

My only issue is that it can't be used with Munitions Failsafe. If you could combine the two...

unf. Yes.

I think this is fun. And is going to improve a lot the Bombers (I cant wait to see more TIE Bombers out there). It will also bring back the "Slave I" title.

The only bad thing about this is... it doesnt help the X-Wing. The X-Wing could have needed a push. But oh well...

Again, when are you getting those shots off? Most Ordinance is only useable at very specific ranges. Having two Proton Torpedoes on your Y-wing now means jack $#!% when you can't fire the second one next turn because they're in Range 1. If you try to tell me that doesn't happen often you have clearly not used ordinance very much at all.

I can very easily stay at range 2-3 or 1-2 for two consecutive rounds, especially depending on the ship.

I really was hoping they would include several copies of these cards in each pack so I could fix my other bombers and such without having to buy multiple copies of ships I don't want. Oh well, I guess it will be one of each of these two new bombers to at least have a couple of copies. I don't see myself buying extra so I guess there will be no bomber flying in competitive tournaments for me. On a brighter note, I'll have less ships to purchase for a wave release since wave five.

Oh look, an upgrade that makes ordnance even more expensive.

where do you get this? For a 2 points you can get an additional 4-5-6 point missile/torop/bomb on anything you have loaded out

My question is how many of those shots are you getting off? It does scale well the more you spend, but that doesn't change the fact that equipping two missiles and two torpedoes to one ship is a bad idea.

True and I think it will stay that way but it makes haivng 2 shots cheaper than buying the two outright. You are still slashing the cost of the overall effect. So for 6 points I can get off two shots of a 5 point missile (more if I have munition failsafe) That's two homing missiles that you can't use evade tokens with. 23 Points on the cheapest bomber makes that thing go toe to toe with the B-wing.

But it's only 'cheaper' in that the token isn't as expensive as the upgrade card. You're still sinking far too many points into action economy suicide by loading up on torpedoes / missiles and then sticking this thing in for yet more points. I mean, suppose that Cluster Missile was itself cheaper - would you see anyone in competitive play jamming their ships full of them? In my opinion, no, you wouldn't - it's an inefficient way to spend your points.

I think it's reasonable to say that many people wanted / expected something that would make the Proton Torpedo a viable include on some ships (like the X Wing) because of it's iconic status in the lore. Many, many simple solutions were posited and even implemented via house rule that made this work.

Again, when are you getting those shots off? Most Ordinance is only useable at very specific ranges. Having two Proton Torpedoes on your Y-wing now means jack $#!% when you can't fire the second one next turn because they're in Range 1. If you try to tell me that doesn't happen often you have clearly not used ordinance very much at all.

I can very easily stay at range 2-3 or 1-2 for two consecutive rounds, especially depending on the ship.

Actually, you can't. It's not possible to do unless your opponent allows it.

Again, when are you getting those shots off? Most Ordinance is only useable at very specific ranges. Having two Proton Torpedoes on your Y-wing now means jack $#!% when you can't fire the second one next turn because they're in Range 1. If you try to tell me that doesn't happen often you have clearly not used ordinance very much at all.

I can very easily stay at range 2-3 or 1-2 for two consecutive rounds, especially depending on the ship.

What ship that can actually use this card and keep opponents at optimal range and STILL get the action to fire ordinance every turn are you talking about, pray tell? I'll wait.

It's probably worthwhile for bombs, but missiles? Torpedoes? You pay a two point premium for the privilege of being able to shoot unmodified dice twice, assuming you can meet the weapon parameters for the requisite shots.

You could've instead just taken the Focus action for free and actually had better overall damage output.

:|

Why do you say unmodified dice? Multiple munitions modify their own dice, focus is still a viable option for actions. Lots of synergy on pilots, and among pilots create an opening and this is a massive discount on ordinance, buy one get 1 50+% off.

4 points for one proton is too much, but 6 for two, that's more doable.

anyone saying this makes ordinance more expense is missing the point imo

This upgrade is cheaper than every ordinance minus flechette torps or seismic charges and will save you some points over doubling up on ordinance

anyone saying this isn't enough of a fix...is probably correct

only time will tell (and a chance to have a go at those sexy new ships)

Yea but I really don't want spammed 5 dice damage that auto changes blanks to eyeballs, that seems excessive. At least with the phantom you had to have a lock to get rerolls (meaning sometimes your first shot was really really bad).

It's probably worthwhile for bombs, but missiles? Torpedoes? You pay a two point premium for the privilege of being able to shoot unmodified dice twice, assuming you can meet the weapon parameters for the requisite shots.

You could've instead just taken the Focus action for free and actually had better overall damage output.

:|

Why do you say unmodified dice? Multiple munitions modify their own dice, focus is still a viable option for actions. Lots of synergy on pilots, and among pilots create an opening and this is a massive discount on ordinance, buy one get 1 50+% off.

4 points for one proton is too much, but 6 for two, that's more doable.

3 Munitions modify their own dice. All of them Missiles. One of which, Prockets, you will never see on ships that can take both cards because you're losing out on red dice due to agility and won't be able to keep ships at range 1 with these behemoths.

Again, when are you getting those shots off? Most Ordinance is only useable at very specific ranges. Having two Proton Torpedoes on your Y-wing now means jack $#!% when you can't fire the second one next turn because they're in Range 1. If you try to tell me that doesn't happen often you have clearly not used ordinance very much at all.

I can very easily stay at range 2-3 or 1-2 for two consecutive rounds, especially depending on the ship.

What ship that can actually use this card and keep opponents at optimal range and STILL get the action to fire ordinance every turn are you talking about, pray tell? I'll wait.

Kath and krassis are both great at a deep range 3 to a close range 2 the following round, if an opponent really doesn't want to get shot at by the second weapon then they have to face a range 1 shot which is just as deadly.

Or if there is space you can always 4 flip leaving you at range 2 if they bumped. It's real easy when there is a more important target like Carnor Jax on the board who is disrupting their action economy.

It's probably worthwhile for bombs, but missiles? Torpedoes? You pay a two point premium for the privilege of being able to shoot unmodified dice twice, assuming you can meet the weapon parameters for the requisite shots.

You could've instead just taken the Focus action for free and actually had better overall damage output.

:|

Why do you say unmodified dice? Multiple munitions modify their own dice, focus is still a viable option for actions. Lots of synergy on pilots, and among pilots create an opening and this is a massive discount on ordinance, buy one get 1 50+% off.

4 points for one proton is too much, but 6 for two, that's more doable.

3 Munitions modify their own dice. All of them Missiles. One of which, Prockets, you will never see on ships that can take both cards because you're losing out on red dice due to agility and won't be able to keep ships at range 1 with these behemoths.

Homing have the ability to use the lock the same round-

Concussion turn a blank into a hit

Proton Torps turn an eyeball into a crit

ADV proton toprs turn 3 blanks into eyeballs

Prockets add dice

That's 5 am I missing one?