Since Alex mentioned that wave 7 would help ordnance and bombers.

My group has been testing different idea's with scenarios by our GM.

This weekend we got to try another:

Ordnance Fix:

A timing shift correction (Like the Decloak updated);

An ordnance phase that takes place immediately before combat phase. Fire all ordnance according to PS just like combat phase, then start combat phase as normal. That is a timing fix. It allows you to attack two times in the same turn. Once with ordnance and then again with your primary weapons. Simple fix no card changes. Also this will help weaken the overuse of cannons since they are secondary weapons. No changes to any ordnance cards or other rules.

My group has been testing this in some of our games this weekend. The GM told us about his idea last week and asked us to build lists accordingly for this week. It's fun to use a as PS1 bomber to strip tokens on Ordnance phase. Then fire primary weapons in the same turn. Works very nicely

We still need to test it more, but it appears to be a pretty good fix. Hopefully FFG will do something like this. It makes Ordnance carriers useful again and team players.

eagletsi

While I admit ordinance is a bit overpriced and complicated to use, this change seems like it could make it too powerful. It seems like it would have a huge effect on the meta.

Low PS pilots would get free attacks in against high PS pilots due to ordinance. Ordinance based craft would significantly stronger as they could get a double attack.

Someone like wedge could do 9 damage in a single round, and since he typically fires first, that would be pretty powerful. A proto A-wing could do 7 or 8 damage in a single round.

4 A's with homing missles.

5 A's with ion pulse missles.

4 X's with protons.

4 Y's with flechette and ion turret.

6 Z's with ion pulse.

5 M3's with concussion missles.

Heavy ordinance lists would be the answer to almost everything. Fat Han? Couple torps/missles, found by combined regular attacks and no more MF. Swarm? No worries, ordinance wave will remove a couple, then we can take out another couple with the first round of regular attacks.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, it just seems like it has some obvious pitfalls. Perhaps the complicated requirements to use them in the first place will offset the alpha strike potential.

To really playtest something like this. You need your best players running well known dependable lists. The stuff that wins at regionals and what not. Then you need to build lists that just totally abuse this new rule. Lists that provide you with crazy amounts of alpha. Then you need to figure out what the meta counter lists would be (only thing I can figure off the top of my head would be serious arc dodging, but with low PS) and figure out how well they play against normal lists also.

Perhaps the better solution would be a new modification. 2 point (balance testing needed of course) mod that allows this to happen. Or perhaps just allows you to fire the ordinance and a normal attack in the same round. Now you pay extra for a massive alpha attack, and sacrifice that mod slot along with it.

While on the surface it seems like a low PS ship woudl get to shoot first, you have to keep in mind that the low PS ship still needs to get a Target Lock on the higher PS ship, and that isn't always easy when jousting.

I like this idea, but think that it might need some kind of drawback or penalty. Like perhaps if they fire ordinance, and plan to perform a regular attack as well, they get a -1 attack die to their attack when doing so.

I like this idea. They ordinance remains one shot only with no mods but the absurdly high cost of it is more easily justified...

Play test it more...but on the surface I really really like this.

I'm interested to see how they tackle it. The problems with ordnance have been stated ad nauseam, however if they don't change how ordnance works in the core rules, I don't see how ordnance pre-wave 7 is going to be used.

On the flip side, if they could do a simple rule change to make ordnance viable, I think they would have done so already.

I don't like it. I think an upgrade card would be more likely where you regain a target lock but takes a modification slot. Now you have to decide munitions failsafe or target lock re-aquisition.

Did he say it's going to help ordnance overall? Or was it just Tie Bombers? I recall the Tie Bomber part. I'm thinking the reason why they picked the Tie Punisher is due to some fix that will work for that ship and the Tie Bomber. Probably a title card, is what I'm thinking. If that's the case, though, will Wave 7 actually "fix" anything beyond those ships?

Did he say it's going to help ordnance overall? Or was it just Tie Bombers? I recall the Tie Bomber part. I'm thinking the reason why they picked the Tie Punisher is due to some fix that will work for that ship and the Tie Bomber. Probably a title card, is what I'm thinking. If that's the case, though, will Wave 7 actually "fix" anything beyond those ships?

I don't know what was said, but it would be weird to have a title that applies to more than one type of ship. People have been using the Autothrusters upgrade as a good example of how a ship can help other ships out without an upgrade that is directly tied to that ship. It seems likely that the K-Wing and Punisher will each come with cards like that.

True, perhaps a modification would be cool, that allowed this. My GM said we all had it and could try it out, we played an Epic game and had a blast.

I could see it as a modification for 2 points. However, I think that just makes bombers even more expensive and takes the modification slot.

I think a title for 0 or 1 point might be better. As for being overpowered, we didn't see that, but we do need to test it more as was stated.

I'm thinking that the reason it is the Tie Punisher was picked is due to a fix for the Bomber. They are incredibly similar. It would be weird to have a title that could work for two different types of ships, but I believe that this would completely work in this case. Everyone is saying that the Punisher is just a super Tie Bomber. I don't think anyone would blink if there were some title that worked for both of them.

OP: Very interesting approach.

While I admit ordinance is a bit overpriced and complicated to use, this change seems like it could make it too powerful. It seems like it would have a huge effect on the meta.

Low PS pilots would get free attacks in against high PS pilots due to ordinance. Ordinance based craft would significantly stronger as they could get a double attack.

...

Perhaps the better solution would be a new modification. 2 point (balance testing needed of course) mod that allows this to happen. Or perhaps just allows you to fire the ordinance and a normal attack in the same round. Now you pay extra for a massive alpha attack, and sacrifice that mod slot along with it.

I agree that it would be strong to allow ordinance phase to come before combat phase. What if it came after the combat phase? Then the high PS ships with no ordinance still get their shots and ordinance still gets a boost worthy of their cost & single-use nature. I'm not against a modification but we already got the under-sized bandaid in the 'munitions failsafe'. A new mod would likely sweep the failsafe under the rug. I'm in favor of a change to the game mechanics which is then supported by cards / ships which take advantage of the change.

I'm thinking that the reason it is the Tie Punisher was picked is due to a fix for the Bomber. They are incredibly similar. It would be weird to have a title that could work for two different types of ships, but I believe that this would completely work in this case. Everyone is saying that the Punisher is just a super Tie Bomber. I don't think anyone would blink if there were some title that worked for both of them.

Perhaps, but I think the reason they picked the Punisher is much more superficial than that.

1. They seem reluctant to break out of the TIE mold when picking ships.

2. They wanted a bigger, badder bomber, so they went with the TIE that looks like a bigger, badder TIE Bomber (as opposed to the Scimitar which doesn't even look like it carries missiles/torpedoes/bombs).

It is an intriguing idea. Does remind me of a boardgame (Eclipse) where missiles fire at the start of combat before normal initiative. In that game, many people hated it because it led to pure hit-and-run missile boats. A skeleton loaded down with missiles that would alpha strike and then run. Wouldn't work quite the same in X-Wing, but I'd be worried about similar things.

It seems a bit much to also get your primary, and there are a few ships it is problematic on. A B-Wing would, for example, probably love this way more than a Y-Wing or TIE Bomber. B-Wing gets the system slot (FCS for a TL'd primary), and an extra die on its primary.

I like the idea of missiles just firing first and not getting a primary that turn, but I'm not sure that is enough.

Did he say it's going to help ordnance overall? Or was it just Tie Bombers? I recall the Tie Bomber part. I'm thinking the reason why they picked the Tie Punisher is due to some fix that will work for that ship and the Tie Bomber. Probably a title card, is what I'm thinking. If that's the case, though, will Wave 7 actually "fix" anything beyond those ships?

The conditional text for the modification/title card could also just be something like "You can equip this card only if you have the torpedo or missile slot", thereby applying to all applicable ships.

Did he say it's going to help ordnance overall? Or was it just Tie Bombers? I recall the Tie Bomber part. I'm thinking the reason why they picked the Tie Punisher is due to some fix that will work for that ship and the Tie Bomber. Probably a title card, is what I'm thinking. If that's the case, though, will Wave 7 actually "fix" anything beyond those ships?

The conditional text for the modification/title card could also just be something like "You can equip this card only if you have the torpedo or missile slot", thereby applying to all applicable ships.

That is true, but it was mentioned that the Tie Bomber was going to "get some love". Not ordnance in general. That and the odd conspiracy theories on why was the Punisher picked make me think this. It's the only thing that really makes sense to me. Assault Boats could have done the trick, as well.

Did he say it's going to help ordnance overall? Or was it just Tie Bombers?

It was bombs and bombers. He didn't mention TIEs specifically, just bombers, which could mean tie bombers or could mean ordnance carriers in general. Given how much ordnance needs help, most people are assuming the later.

I'm thinking that the reason it is the Tie Punisher was picked is due to a fix for the Bomber. They are incredibly similar. It would be weird to have a title that could work for two different types of ships, but I believe that this would completely work in this case. Everyone is saying that the Punisher is just a super Tie Bomber. I don't think anyone would blink if there were some title that worked for both of them.

How about this:

Modification:

1 pt

Advanced Warheads

You may only equip this card if you have a Torpedo or Missile Upgrade slot.

At the start of the Combat phase, after players have resolved all other abilities that happen at the start of the combat phase. Each ship equipped with this card starting with the ship with the highest pilot skill and going in descending initiative order. A ship may fire one of it's ordnance (Either a Missile or Torpedo) . A ship which chooses to do so cannot shoot again until after the next activation phase (Sorry Corran).

This has the Phantom nerf description for flavor.

My guess for the ordinance fix?

We are about as close to guessing it as we were with the phantom fix.

Not saying it will not be fun to try....but so far I have not seen a workable theory.

My guess for the ordinance fix?

We are about as close to guessing it as we were with the phantom fix.

Not saying it will not be fun to try....but so far I have not seen a workable theory.

I've come around to the idea several people have been supporting that if a missile or torpedo hits, you cancel all of the defender's dice results. It seems workable to me, and it's nice and simple. They could easily turn it into an upgrade card if they'd rather do that than change the rules.