Here it is:

I'd like to open a discussion about the trailer and subsequently, the movie.

I'm also including a transcription of all the lines of dialogue in the trailer, as some are hard to hear without watching it over and over again. I've included which Actors/Characters/people I believe are speaking at the time. The parts in parenthesis are when those lines are heard in the middle of other people speaking.

What are your thoughts on this trailer? Does it make you excited to see the movie or are you more skeptic than you were previously?

Lol, Batman looking like Iron Man

Are these the same characters as they apeared in the previous movies? If so we have a Batman physically worn out from fighting crime versus a superman that will kill and doesn't mind a smashing up half the city. It can't come to a straight up fight, there's no way bats would survive. Do we even have cryptonite in this reboot?

But I like the tone the trailer sets: Why DO we trust Superman anyway? (That actualy sais more about our society than you might think)

Trailer looks good. Now I was gonna see the movie regardless, just to see how they handle a conflict between DC's most iconic characters (sorry fans of GL, Flash and Wonder Woman! )

Lol, Batman looking like Iron Man

Are these the same characters as they apeared in the previous movies? Reboot of Batman within the Man of Steel franchise.

If so we have a Batman physically worn out from fighting crime versus a superman that will kill and doesn't mind a smashing up half the city. It can't come to a straight up fight, there's no way bats would survive. Yeah, I guess that's why they decided to go with the whole mechanical suit that can supposedly take on Superman from the comic The Dark Knight Returns. The problem I have with that is the Batman in the comic had decades of knowing Superman and would actually have knowledge of what could stand up to his strength. Funny thing is, there really isn't anything that could in the comics. In this reboot, they've toned down Superman's powers, he is not Immortal like in the comics.

Do we even have cryptonite in this reboot? Kryptonite has not made an appearance so far. Neither has Superman's Superbreath or Coldbreath powers.

But I like the tone the trailer sets: Why DO we trust Superman anyway? (That actualy sais more about our society than you might think) It's a good point to bring up for sure. It's part of the reason why the movie intrigues me and I hope they dive deep into that idea more than just a distrust that sets up the fight between Batman and Superman.

Trailer looks good. Now I was gonna see the movie regardless, just to see how they handle a conflict between DC's most iconic characters (sorry fans of GL, Flash and Wonder Woman! ) To me, the trailer kind of killed any hope I have for the film other than that idea of mistrusting Superman and questioning his motives. I'll see it anyway because I might enjoy it if I keep my expectations low. In my opinion, they shouldn't really try to pit Batman and Superman against one another. Superpowers vs Training/Experience/Gadgets/Strategy aside, the idea of pitting two forces for good against one another doesn't always make for a great story.

Also, the film is too dark (figuratively and literally). There were only about 2 scenes set during the daytime and the rest was at night/indoors. Superman tends to operate more during the day. As far as figuratively, this trailer makes me think they are again making superman dark just for the sake of making it dark. Superman himself is supposed to be a character that inspires hope and courage not mistrust and suspicion. While I like the idea of the general population mistrusting him and where that idea can go in terms of story, that basically makes him a different character entirely if those are the things he makes the world feel.

Years ago when Space McQuirk, Graham Macneil and I were on our second interviews for jobs at GW head office they assigned us to do a five minute talk on a series of quite random topics.

One of them was 'who would win in a fight between superman and batman'. space got that one and did a really serious evaluation of their powers over the course of 4 minutes or so...

then ended it with 'but my moneys on Batman because Supermans in a wheelchair!'

It was really poor taste given Christopher Reeve had just had his accident but it clearly made the panel laugh as he got a job!

There's also a fan comic (I think) about them revealing each other's secret identities: Batman leaks the information to the police, the media and the criminal underworld. Superman carves "Batman = Bruce Wayne" on the moon .

1-0 For Superman.

Atleast they established that the Flash IS faster than supes.

Sorry, I founded it mostly boring (to be kind). Incredibly slow, and Batman's eyes? Plus, the script: "do you bleed? you will"... c'mon...

Batman probably got confused and tought he was fighting against the Predator.

If it bleeds we can kill it...

Man of steel was terrible I don't expect this to be any better, dc have two decent tv shows in the flash and arrow and I think that's where they should focus and just forget movies.

The idea Affleck would make a good batman was laughable before it's even more so now.

"I'm Daredevil!" Oops wrong movie!

I dunno, George Clooney didn't do it for me either. I don't wanna see a Batexpresso machine!

I kinda liked Man of Steel, but then again i'm not a superman fan, and I can certainly see why people don't like it.

Also it lacked Lex Luthor yelling at women and children.

Problem was man o steel was so **** joyless.

I've always found 'superman' to be the most *boring* superhero ever.

essentialy he can do anything, he can solve any problem, fly across the world in the blink of an eye, hold up a falling sky scraper with his little finger.

His weakness?

Bits of a planet that no longer exists.. wow thats limiting.

To me the best superhero's are intrinsically flawed or fighting and inner demon.

Ironman is a god example. Hes a spoiled rich kid with a drink problem. His 'power' keeps him alive, without it hes as good as dead.

Batman is a classic, hes got no magic power, hes just a rich very very hard psychpath with serious issues disguising his sadism by making it about 'protecting' people. hes inherently a really messed up guy.

Even in fantasy my favourite hero was 'elric'. Last emperor of a dying race who gives up his thrwn to travel the world because hes 'bored' , hes albino and sickly and needs drugs to stay alive until he discovers a sword that steals the life force of those he kills, seems like a great solution but the sword causes him to kill his friends and lovers... not so good.

But if he gives the sword up he dies....

Thats proper drama.

Superman is just lame... good kid becomes good guy who can pretty much solve anything without breaking a sweat.

And he doesn't kill people! (atleast he didn't outside of Man of Steel and the lois lane comic covers )

So, yeah I'm with Gadge, Supes is to vanilla for me. Well except for Superman at Earth's End Where he's shouting "I AM A MAN!" and punching androids guts out!

This is where a true Superman fanboy would probably tell you something like "Superman isn't really all about his heroism. You know he's going to win eventually. What makes him interesting as a character is how he feels so alienated from a world that believes in him yet he is constantly trying to fit in as Clark Kent. The best parts of the stories come from when he's disguised and not from the action."

I always counter with "That's what makes him so boring. There's no suspense, no contest. You're telling me that a superhero comic is good but only the parts where they are not being super."

There is a batman quote about just how godlike superman appears to others, and how fortunate they all are that it just doesn't occur to superman that he could play god.

Atleast Golden Age superman wasn't as overpowered as he would later become. No flight, just leaping tall buildings in a single bound, and beating up villains while yelling "Papa spank!"

Golden age superman was weird

Now that's the superman I wanna see fight batman!

Superman: "Back of Batman, or it's papa spank!"

Batman: "My parents are dead."

Superman: "My entire PLANET is dead!"

Batman "U mad bro?"

Superman: "Come at me bro!"

I've always found 'superman' to be the most *boring* superhero ever.

essentialy he can do anything, he can solve any problem, fly across the world in the blink of an eye, hold up a falling sky scraper with his little finger.

I've gone into detail talking about this elsewhere on the site--on the subject of the Yuuzhan Vong, actually, and why they constitute lazy writing--but the trick of writing an interesting Superman story is in realizing that confronting him with physical problems is beside the point. The conflict has to be fundamentally internal/emotional to make sense for Superman.

Palpatine figured out that he didn't have to challenge every individual Jedi to a lightsaber duel in order to beat them; instead he mired them in a war that forced them to change from ascetic monks ("knowledge and defense, never for attack") into soldiers. The Clone Wars show is all about that reshaping, of which the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin is a microcosm.

So the Emperor destroyed the Jedi from inside out, and won his war against them with only a single physical engagement--and even then, he'd already rigged the outcome. It's smart writing, if poorly executed on the big screen. That's how you do conflict with godlike heroes.

What are your thoughts on this trailer? Does it make you excited to see the movie or are you more skeptic than you were previously?

I wasn't at all excited about the movie previously, and the trailer further cements my feeling that Zach Snyder doesn't understand Superman. (It also reminds me that casting Ben Affleck in a leading role represents a triumph of faith over evidence, but that's a separate problem.)

[EDIT: Fixed a typo. This is why you shouldn't post 20 minutes after taking heavy-duty cough medicine.]

I think it'll be another train wreck like man of steel was, that film was joyless and a grind to get through this will be the same.

Superhero movies are meant to be fun but with WB giving a directive banning jokes from their comic movies all this will be is grim dark that leaves you worn out and glad it's over.

The big problems with Superman tend to be powercreep and lazy writing. He powercreeps because eventually they'll try to up the ante by pushing his physical limits, but then the next time they do that they have to push him harder. It says a lot about how bad this got that he went from lifting a car to shoving planets around, before they toned it down. The lazy writing comes from trying to throw physical threats at him. There's no drama when the whole story comes own to "can Superman punch the thing hard enough? Can he tank the damage well enough?" because he can obviously punch everything and tank all the damage. He might be roughed up but that's not important, we knew he was going to win decisively and that's what happened.

The best Superman stories usually combine him dealing with personal issues and him punching stuff. For the Man Who Has Everything had him get caught in a fake world where he was a farmer on Krypton, with a wife and son. Mongul stuck a weird plant on him that creates illusionary worlds where you would be truly happy, so Superman wouldn't be able to do his thing and stop the bad guy. We get to see Superman lose his temper and just pummel a fool, but the big moment is the one where he tells his son "I don't think you're real" and breaks free. Same as the best episodes of Superman: The Animated Series were the ones where he didn't solve the problem entirely with his powers, but where he still put them to use. The Mxyzptlk one was pretty good, too.

tl;dr Superman can be interesting but you have to balance his problems between what can and cannot be solved by punching

That is a good story. It would have been hilarious if it had turned out to be real tough:

Superman: "I don't think you're real son." PUNCH.

Son: "Daaaaad!"

Superman: "Whoops, Sorry, son!"

Son: "Mom, dad hit me!"

Superman: "Quiet you, or it's papa spank !"

Wife: "Have you been snorting powdered kryptonite again?"

Superman: " Errr...I must go now, planet Earth needs me!"

http://www.superdickery.com/tag/superman-is-a-****/

Thats a site worth a few good laugh's.

As they point out on the site: Superman's just so happy when he's killing Lois Lane!

The big problems with Superman tend to be powercreep and lazy writing. He powercreeps because eventually they'll try to up the ante by pushing his physical limits, but then the next time they do that they have to push him harder. It says a lot about how bad this got that he went from lifting a car to shoving planets around, before they toned it down. The lazy writing comes from trying to throw physical threats at him. There's no drama when the whole story comes own to "can Superman punch the thing hard enough? Can he tank the damage well enough?" because he can obviously punch everything and tank all the damage. He might be roughed up but that's not important, we knew he was going to win decisively and that's what happened.

The best Superman stories usually combine him dealing with personal issues and him punching stuff. For the Man Who Has Everything had him get caught in a fake world where he was a farmer on Krypton, with a wife and son. Mongul stuck a weird plant on him that creates illusionary worlds where you would be truly happy, so Superman wouldn't be able to do his thing and stop the bad guy. We get to see Superman lose his temper and just pummel a fool, but the big moment is the one where he tells his son "I don't think you're real" and breaks free. Same as the best episodes of Superman: The Animated Series were the ones where he didn't solve the problem entirely with his powers, but where he still put them to use. The Mxyzptlk one was pretty good, too.

tl;dr Superman can be interesting but you have to balance his problems between what can and cannot be solved by punching

Superman TAS and the writers of the Justice League cartoons wrote a lot of great stories with all the characters. I remember one where the League is getting agitated with one another during a training exercise in which they called Superman out for always flying in first and getting hit with the brunt of the evildoer's force. He yells back at them because he knows he can take the hit and recover. Even when he's in a group of similarly powered beings he still is trying to protect everyone from harm.

Superhero movies are meant to be fun but with WB giving a directive banning jokes from their comic movies all this will be is grim dark that leaves you worn out and glad it's over.

I agree, the fact that they are intentionally trying to make Superman dark and gritty, means they don't get the character in the first place. Batman sure, Arrow maybe yeah, Superman never.

Flash for example is a great show that is true to the character, so is Arrow as well depending on what era you take him from. Daredevil on Netflix did a great job of taking what was already a semi-dark character and making him work.

Marvel has nailed it with the movies IMO. They have superheroes being super heroic and it shows. DC on the other hand has failed to do that for the last several movies, although the fight scenes in Man of Steel were fun to watch.

Thats a site worth a few good laugh's.

Yeah that is a fun site to visit.

The big problems with Superman tend to be powercreep and lazy writing. He powercreeps because eventually they'll try to up the ante by pushing his physical limits, but then the next time they do that they have to push him harder. It says a lot about how bad this got that he went from lifting a car to shoving planets around, before they toned it down. The lazy writing comes from trying to throw physical threats at him. There's no drama when the whole story comes own to "can Superman punch the thing hard enough? Can he tank the damage well enough?" because he can obviously punch everything and tank all the damage. He might be roughed up but that's not important, we knew he was going to win decisively and that's what happened.

The best Superman stories usually combine him dealing with personal issues and him punching stuff. For the Man Who Has Everything had him get caught in a fake world where he was a farmer on Krypton, with a wife and son. Mongul stuck a weird plant on him that creates illusionary worlds where you would be truly happy, so Superman wouldn't be able to do his thing and stop the bad guy. We get to see Superman lose his temper and just pummel a fool, but the big moment is the one where he tells his son "I don't think you're real" and breaks free. Same as the best episodes of Superman: The Animated Series were the ones where he didn't solve the problem entirely with his powers, but where he still put them to use. The Mxyzptlk one was pretty good, too.

tl;dr Superman can be interesting but you have to balance his problems between what can and cannot be solved by punching

Superman TAS and the writers of the Justice League cartoons wrote a lot of great stories with all the characters. I remember one where the League is getting agitated with one another during a training exercise in which they called Superman out for always flying in first and getting hit with the brunt of the evildoer's force. He yells back at them because he knows he can take the hit and recover. Even when he's in a group of similarly powered beings he still is trying to protect everyone from harm.

Reminds me of the one where they thought he died and Green Lantern talks about the time he protected Green Lantern (and maybe other people) from a grenade by just wrapping his hands around it. I like Superman better as part of the League, because he's more interesting to watch when interacting with other heroes and the problems tend to be huge enough that he can't handle them alone.

I also like how when Luther and Brainiac merged and created Justice Lord duplicates, Superman's copy easily sent him into a rage mostly by just existing, while Flash shrugged off his copy's attempt at mind games and Batman never gave his a chance to speak. Superman seemed to be struggling the most to destroy his copy, which was a nice change of pace. I found the writers were great about giving each character a chance to outdo everyone else without forcing everyone getting outdone to hold the idiot ball for the episode.