Please forgive if much of what is here has been asked previously. I'm sure some may be thinking... "here comes the stupid questions". =) My assumption is the questions I have aren't new, so If someone could point me in the direction of where to go for answers I'd appreciate it.

As a newbie to the game (core set only) and having older experiences with CCG's I'm trying to make sense of the game from a release/$ standpoint. I'm learning the rules, strategies, etc. as I go and not yet worried, trusting I'll pick those up better over time. Of course I'm already browsing the forums here to help in those areas.

Specifically, what I'm confused by is the history of the game (CCG v LCG) and what I'll need to be aiming to purchase going forward, or better yet should be considering for purchase. For example, are there obvious cards/sets I should invest in ASAP? Is only investing in the LCG portions typical or acceptable/smart? Perhaps there are cards I could hold off on (esp to help financially) and get eventually as I naturally progress playing?

Bigger picture, what other sort of "newbie" stuff should I start looking at?

Also, I am planning to buy the board game, but took interest in the card game after I saw the non collectible aspect introduced (since?) as an LCG. To be quite honest I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on LCG's to know what I'm getting into financially (how often cards come out, future plans, etc.) and pros/cons.

Finally, it may help if I explain my situation a bit. I am currently re-reading the first book and was able to interest 4 friends to read with me. So far, so good. In other words, they like what they're reading and are eager for more. We typically get together occasionally for game nights and also plan to make time to discuss the books as we read along (similar to a book club). I figured I'd bandwagon on those opportunities and incorporate the related games to strum up interest with my gaming friends. That said, I'm in Houston and if there is someone also in Houston that may be interested in holding our hands and instructing us with their experience you could benefit with a group of new eager players to join you in the near future! If not, I hope to create a local group of players here among friends myself (why I came here for help). I hope that all makes sense.

Since this is starting to get long I'll stop for now and will elloborate more as needed later. Thanks very much for your time and help in advance!

Regards,

Madduxx

Welcome, my friend! ;-)

Questions cannot be stupid: only anwers could. So, feel free to ask everything you need to know.
OK, now...

THe LCG chang occurred something like a couple of year a go (even if the Chapter pack format started before, but we were not in the LCG yet). At the end of the Collectible expansions, FFG started to print monthly releases (monthly is a good word to demonstrate your trust, cause sometimes you have to wait a bit longer ;-) ) called Chapter packs (the current expansion format).

So, there were 2 formats which allowed you to play all the printed stuff, but the game was no longer expanded with a Collectible logic.

After that, they created the LCG as a new era, giving a sort of a Reset to the game.

They created the CORE SET, a box containing 4 playable decks (playable is another gentle word in some cases ;-)). With it (30-40 bucks) you could jump in to the game and have a card game with a Board game feeling.

Now, let's look at what happens if you're intrested in the whole environment. If you want beyond on the occasional games with the CORE SET, you have to purchase the Chapter Packs they release.

Chapter packs are printed in thematic cycles. Each cycle adds some mechanics, sometimes new rules and some new flavour.

We are going to have 3 complete cycles in a couple of months (2 completely released and the third is going to end with 2 more chapter packs). Every cycle has a name.

Here they are:

- A Clash or arms: black bordered cards. Those chapter packs were printed BEFORE the LCG official announcement. IS the ONLY stuff of the "old" era that you can still play in the new environment.

- A time of ravens: white borders. Added "Season change" mechanics (good flavour mechanics which adds intense strategy at certain conditions).

- King's Landing: current Cycle. Added a new mechanic and new exciting stuff.

Each chapter pack it's 9-10 Bucks. In each chapter we have 20 new cards: 10 of them are 1 per copy; 10 of them are 3 per Copy. So, you have 40 total cards in hand each month.

WHAT SHOULD I GET?

Now. If you want jump in to the game, understand some mechanics and see if it's a game for you, pick up the Core Set and play some games.

If you'll be "corrupted" by this incredible game (and you will, believe me), you'd get chapter packs to start building your own deck and strategies.

I BOUGHT 3 copies of the Core Set, just to have 3 copy of some Key cards and some stuff for demonstrations (if you wanna get into competititve games, even if with your friends, you're pretty forced to buy 3 copy, even with Chapter packs, where you have some key cards in a single copy).

Then, each month you should BUY all chapter pack, 1 copy each, just to see and start building. After that, choose the cards you need the most and decide to buy singles or just multiple copies of some CP's.

IMPORTANT NOTE: to recognize easily the LCG stuff...All WHITE BORDER CARDS + A CLASH OF ARMS CYCLE (the last Black bordered cycle) are LCG LEGAL. Other stuff are CLASSIC LEGAL (Classic is a format where you can play ALL THE PRINTED STUFF 1x COPY).

LET'S SAY YOU'RE IN...

If you decide to do that, you have to spend something like:

- CORE SET: 30-40 Bucks (choose the quantity).

- All CP'S: 50/60 Bucks per CYCLE (Now you should spend something like 130-150)

Let's say that if you get "addicted" (and you'll get, don't try to be so smart ;-) ), and decide to get in seriously, you'll need something like 250-300 total (adding KINGS OF THE SEA expansion, READ FORWARD).

WHICH HOUSE I SHOULD PLAY?

There are SIX playable houses: STARK, LANNISTER, BARATHEON, TARGARYEN, GREYJOY, MARTELL.

Stark, Lanni, Bara and Targ are found in the Core Set. Greyjoy has an expansion (recently released). It's called KINGS OF THE SEA and it's a bit overpriced, but if you want it, that's it.

PRINCESS OF THE SOUTH will be the expansion that will allow players to play MARTELL in the LCG environment.

For Unknown REASONS, the first year and a half they abandoned Greyjoy and Martell, giving some cards in CPs, but ignoring them in the core set.

Now they're coming back...

BUT WHAT IF...?

If you are not interested in anything I wrote before (like enjoyng destructive competitive games untill 5 in the morning in the name of the Iron throne...Why you'd do that?), just be quiet and study the game with the Core Set, which is printed with the INTENTION to appeal even to those who are strangers to card games mechanics, collectible or not.

WHERE I SHOULD START WITH 100 BUCKS?

Get the Core Set and the whole A Clash of arms cycle. You will not TOTALLY Upgraded, but you'll be able to do some good builds and go deep into the wonderful aspects of the game.

HOPE IT HELPS.

If I forgot something, please ask and me or someone else will answer.

This is the only game that matters.

;-)

P.S. If you're STUDYING the rules DOWNLOAD THE LAST FAQ FROM THE SUPPORT SECTION OF THE AGOT MINI SITE.

WHEN YOU'LL GET into the game a little more, visit www.tzumainn.com, fan site whit card database, deck builder, articles and real time spoilers.

The A Game of Thrones Core Set gives you four perfectly playable decks right out of the box. Maybe someone from Houston will chime in, but otherwise you'll be playing against your friends with the cards you bought, so the "accecptable" cards are whatever you guys decide to invest in. Playing with just the LCG cards is becoming more common amongst people who post here if you want to be able to compare experiences with people here.

If you're looking to augment the experience you get from the Core Set, there are a lot of nice chapter packs to choose from. To build the most powerful and consistent deck, you'd probably need to buy three copies of the Core Set and a lot of chapter packs, but you can have fun, interesting games with much less than that if you and your friends are drawing from the same card resources (ie one person doesn't have a bunch more cards than everyone else). My recommendations would be:

1. If you enjoy House Greyjoy in the books, the Kings of the Sea expansion gives you a Greyjoy deck which does a good job of capturing the sea raider feeling of Greyjoy. This might also be a good idea for you if you plan on playing with your four friends since with the Core Set and Kings of the Sea you'll have five decks total. If you don't like Greyjoy that much in the books and don't plan on needing five decks at once, I'd hold off on Kings of the Sea initially though because you don't get as many cards for your money as you do with chapter packs, and early on you're probably more interested in increasing your overall volume of cards so you can have more options for modifying your decks.

2. For chapter packs, I'd recommend starting with the first three packs from A Time of Ravens (A Song of Summer, Winds of Winter, and A Change of Seasons). These give you the cards you need for the seasons mechanic which shows up on cards in the A Time of Ravens and Kings Landing Edition chapter pack cycles.

3. Besides the first three packs from A Time of Ravens, I recommend Ancient Enemies from the A Clash of Arms cycle and Refugees of War and Scattered Armies from A Time of Ravens. You could consider getting these three before or in addition to the ones I listed in #2. These packs all have cards that are just generally useful for each house (the plot cards in Ancient Enemies, the refugees in Refugees of War, and the reinforcements in Scattered Armies).

(Aside: you can have three copies of any card in your deck. A chapter pack comes with one copy of ten cards and three copies of ten other cards. When you're just getting started it's best to buy one copy of a chapter pack since you can put all of the cards straight into your deck. If you get more serious, you might want to buy more copies of a pack so you can get multiples of the cards that only appear once in a pack. I wouldn't do this at first though because it's not as efficient because all the 3X cards in the chapter packs become redundant.)

Beyond those recommendations, I think it's probably best just to get in some games and get a feel for how the game plays and how powerful certain abilities are and then just read through the chapter pack contents on tzumainn.com to decide which chapter packs you'd want to add to your decks. The shadows mechanic in Kings Landing Edition is pretty cool for instance as are the epic battle and army themes in A Clash of Arms. Also, if you prefer consistent decks to varied ones and you have several of your friends interested in the game, you guys might consider going in for a second Core Set since it has a bunch of generally useful cards.

I've tried to give an outline on tackling the 18 and counting LCG releases available (and other people have different suggestions -- like just acquiring things in chronological order). You asked about the monetary investment aspect and CCG vs LCG -- you don't have to buy all the chapter packs or even all the ones I listed above. That's just a guide of what order I would buy things in. You can stop any time (even after just the Core Set) and have fun playing the game. A lot of people enjoy the deckbuilding aspect of the game and for that you need more cards than just the Core Set so you can swap cards in and out. Deckbuilding is the part of the game that carries over from CCG to LCG. The main difference with the LCG is that you know exactly what you're getting in each pack and can choose accordingly. A new chapter pack comes out roughly once each month, but again you don't have to get every single one if that's not in your budget.

Also, you can try looking in the AGoT Metagame Discussion subforum to see if there's anyone else playing in Houston and if not you can try starting a thread and seeing if anyone responds.

DB_Cooper said:

"Princes of the Sun" of course.

I just want to point out that for reviewing the entire contents of chapter packs, Rogue30's card search is better than tzumainn's site (tzumainn's site, of course, excels in other areas, say, pre-LCG era cards, when you have a specific card in mind and want to see if there are any comments/ratings for it, artwork (for older cards), deck building, etc.). With Rogue30's search, you can see all of the chapter pack contents with full card text/stats, and quantity per pack, all displayed on one page. Just choose the chapter pack you want to review from the lower righthand dropdown and make sure you uncheck "Hide Agendas" and "Hide Plots", which are checked by default. The link is in Rogue30's signature block (he posted just before me).

Wow, awesome help. I can't thank y'all enough.

Follow up questions...

Are chapter packs on time every month, or are there occasional breaks/delays? Are there always 6 chapters per cycle? schrecklich you mentioned I'd need a lot of chapter packs, but I assume I wouldn't need more then 3 of any chapter pack, correct? I don't have a good place to purchase locally I know of, is there a recommended place to purchase online perhaps?

Once I can "catch up" I love the idea of a monthly expense to stay current w/ new strats!

I'll definitely check out www.tzumainn.com and http://info.wsisiz.edu.pl/~szczesnj/.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Madduxx

Rogue30 said:

OMG!!! Please....I'm sorry...I woke up a that time, I wasn't "ok" yet... ;-)

For you, MADDUXX...

You don't really have montly releases because of some "delays", but believe me, it's not a big problem...I'm fine with the timing, even if not precise...(sometimes you can feel upset, but you can live with it)...

You'll never need more than 3 of any chapter pack...The things I suggest (as before) is to pick up 1x copy of the ones you can get..Then see the mechanics/cards/houses you need the most and buy multiple copies...

Use those sites to figure out the stuff while you read the rules (I started in that way)...Then if you have a couple of bucks, make a big order and play 'til you die.

;-)

Here we are, waiting for your questions.

Bye

DB_Cooper said:

Good idea. Did you mean last as in recent AGoT LCG FAQ v1.3.1 or last one listed AGoT Legacy FAQ v7.1 ? I figured both are good regardless.

Thanks again!

Madduxx said:

Download both of them....The difference is that the second one refers to the "Classic format" I explained before.

I forgot to say that the Cards, here, are not so expensive as they'd be in Magic the gathering, so if you need something to build up a Classic deck for tournaments, you're not going to spend lots of bucks, just you have to buy a big quantity and it'll take some time (considering the 1x limit)...The good aspect is that the fact we don't have a format where old cards are playable in a 3x standard, you'll find lots of old players selling their stuff (naturally it won't happen if their local meta plays a meta-format).

In example, there are metas which goes on to play the old "Standard Format", where you could play the last 2 Collectible Cycles and all the non-collectible stuff.

Hope it helps. ;-)

Madduxx said:

I think chapter packs are usually pretty close to on time over the sixth month schedule. There might be a little break between cycles (I'm not sure though -- the Princes of the South expansion might be timed to come out to fill that break between the current King's Landing Edition and the next cycle). So far there have always been 6 chapter packs per cycle -- that makes 120 unique cards per cycle which is about what you would expect from an expansion in a CCG. They could always change the number, but so far they haven't shown any signs that they plan to do so.

Madduxx said:

Hmm, well, I was trying to make the point that you don't need a lot of chapter packs but that there are a plenty of options if you want a lot of chapter packs. I'd say if you still have some uncertainty about how much you like the game you should start off with just the Core Set because that gives you four good decks to play with and explore. If you feel pretty confident that you'll like the game, are interested in the deck building aspect, and want to save on shipping, then you could buy some chapter packs (and/or Kings of the Sea) in addition to the Core Set. How many you buy right away should probably be determined by how much money you want to put into the game initially. Those six chapter packs I listed above would the first six that I would recommend (but you don't have to get them all right away). If you want to start off with more than six, I'd recommend making the decision based on which mechanic/card you find most interesting (seasons: get Raven's Song, epic battles: get more from A Clash of Arms, shadows: get some of King's Landing Edition, or if, for example, you are a fan of Rhaegar you could get the Battle of the Ruby Ford or Tower of the Hand if you like Jon Arryn...).

I would hold off on getting multiples of any particular chapter pack until after you are pretty familiar with the game and see why it would be particularly useful to have three copies of a particular card that is 1X in a chapter pack. Personally I haven't gotten to the point of buying multiples of the same chapter pack though I see why one would want to. You can't put more than three of one card into a deck so you'll never want more than three of the same chapter pack to make any one deck. Technically there are some cards you might want to put in more than one deck but that's an extreme case that would only come up if you wanted to use two decks at the same time with the same card in each.

Madduxx said:

Two good sites:

www.coolstuffinc.com/

www.ccgarmory.com/

ccgarmory sells some singles of older cards that you might be interested in (some of them have been reprinted in the LCG -- see the LCG reprints section of www.agotny.net/ if you're interested). Personally, I find coolstuffinc more professional (ie they are more responsive and provide more clear communication).

Also, regarding the FAQ -- both documents have some flow charts in the back that are pretty helpful when you're first starting out and trying to understand the turn sequence.

I wanted to follow up here and give thanks again for the help. I ordered my own core set and the first 6 chapter packs online. If things take off, as I suspect they will, I'm going to be more selective with future purchases once I know what I like to play most. I can't wait till they arrive and I can organize showing the game to my friends (got 2 interested so far just sharing what I know and the website).

I had another, off topic perhaps, item I was hoping some may be able to help with. One of the things that's pulling us in is simply reading the books. We are all reading the first book currently (I am re-reading) with plans to obviously read them all. I was trying to find some "book club like" discussion questions I could use for each book to help us chat about the books. Does anyone know if something like that exists somewhere? Or perhaps has some ideas of good questions I could use that would spur discussion besides "so and so was my fav" or " I loved it when..."

Appreciate it!

Madduxx said:

Check the "Spoiler Space" section on these boards. You can find some popular topics of book discussion these. In older incarnations of the boards, the topics could get pretty long and speculative. Not many of these have been translated or transferred, but if you ask this question again these, I am willing to bet many of those discussions could be reopened.

I'd also recommend checking out www.towerofthehand.com . THey have a ton of information about Westeros from a Song of Ice and Fire available and a neat feature that restricts the information available to you based on which book you have read so it cuts down on the amount of spoilers you can come across. It has polls and various posts and articles of speculation and commentary that can spur some interesting discussions... but I don't know if the book restriction setting will hide posts and articles that may contain spoilers (I suspect not), just the chapter summaries and such that are a static part of the site.

Another question - which chapter packs are tied to which book? If someone hasn't read a book yet is there the possibility for being spoiled?

Some little spoilers are in place but it is not so critic I think... you may think about why a character is now a Night's Watch when in the book you are reading it isn't... and other similar things, but in general I think the game doesn't destroy your reading...

They aren't really tied that way. While the Chapter Packs are themed off of events in the books they are rather loosely themed in regards to literal events.

Sorry, did we ask where you were from? Best way to answer questions is from other players! Hope you are close to some...

Maddux said he was in Houston. I'm not sure if there is a full established meta in Texas that posts here. I just moved to Dallas last month (though I've been traveling for the last three weeks or so) and have gotten a few people interested in the game. I'm not hep to the distance thing yet so don't know how far Dallas is from Houston in real time, but I'm not against traveling a couple hours for a day of gaming, especially if it helps establish a new meta.

rings said:

I believe I did mention I'm in Houston. I have been looking for players but haven't found any yet. I did reply to a post in the "Metagame" subforum from a Houston player that posted awhile back. I also called the card store he mentioned in the post, but it doesn't sound like the owner knows of anyone playing there anymore. I'll keep searching and creating a group of friends to play with here. If someone knows any players in Houston let me know!

dormouse said:

Dallas is about a 4 hours drive, baring traffic, from where I'm at in Houston (SEast). I don't venture up to Dallas often, but if I do and think of it I'll try to get in touch with you here just to see if we could possibly find time to play and chat. That'd be great! Of course if you ever make it down to Houston let me know.

Just wanted to chime in and let y'all know how things are progressing here with my local gaming group I've begun starting up. I've been able to play the core decks with two of three friends that are all eager to get going. We are organizing a weekly day to play & are going to combine an order soon to save on shipping and such. We have decided to take getting all the available cards at first a bit slow and mix in new cards as we go and assuming we enjoy the game as much as we expect. That means core set and first 6 chapter packs only to start (Clash of arms packs).

Personally, I think I'm going to go ahead with purchasing a 2nd core set, but for now everyone else will just have 1 and 1 of each chapter pack mentioned above. I'm mixed on getting the core again because it just seems like such a waste to get all the extras again I don't need. That said I'd love 3 core sets but just can't pull the trigger. It's really too bad they don't have a slightly cheaper version of just cards in the core set.

Anyway, as I look through the available cards we'll have at our disposal I'm really struggling with trying to customize based on what I have. I've been able to read through many of the existing deck forum posts for some ideas on overall good rules for construction that defintely help. However, I'm just not quite getting different combos and things to try with each house. Without actually building me a deck, does anyone have any good suggestions on things to try and focus on besides just being character driven to start (assuming only having the cards mentioned above available)? If there's a good post already I missed on this please point me there as well. Perhaps thinking back to when that was all there was and what people did for decks then?

Again, I appreciate all the help and esp the awesome forum junkies here.

I think that the first 6 chapter packs allow for some customizing of decks, but I don't know if there is anything in those chapter packs that really sends your deck ideas in new directions so much as just help them do what they do better. I'll give you some card synergy ideas though...

Stark - Midnight Sentry really empowers Stalwart and feral Direwlves puts some real power in a deck using a number of direwolves.

Lannister - Castellan of the Rock really puts Lannisters kneel on the map giving you some easy repeatable kneel. I have a feeling this guy is going to eventually get done a way with or errata'd in some fashion. A lot of people seem to feel very strongly about him in a negative way... which means he is good and you should use him.

Baratheon - Bringers of Law with Hunting Spear gives you a major wall that even some armies can't get around. Get two of these out and you'll stop 90% of non-stealthed challenges against you.

Targaryen - about the only exception, Clash of Arms does open up a new deck type to Targ, Ambush. Queen's Knight and Dragon Thief really give you some unexpected power in the middle of the challenges phase.

To be honest I'd buy Kings of the Sea before I bought a second Core Set. IT gives you the basics to play Greyjoy and they are a fun and powerful House.