Okay so another wave seven speculation thread, somewhat. So we all know that K wings have an action that has not been scene before. I could only come up with 1 of 2 things.

• A. the reload action so it can reuse missiles and torpedoes. (not that good for missile and torpedo IMHO).

• B. an action that allows you to make an attack with a secondary weapon along with your primary weapon.

As you see the double attack ability is starting to creep in the meta. It first started with the gunner which allows you to make second attack with a primary weapon after you missed. Sure the cluster missiles were the first but it was never that powerful. Now you got pilots like IG88-B and upgrades like BTL-A4 which are making double attacks the more common place. There was some quote somewhere that Wave 7 was supposed to make the missiles torpedoes and bombs more viable. If they were to do something like that I think the missile/torpedo attack followed by primary weapon attack would be where to start.

Or whenever you fire a missile/torpedo, perform the attack twice? TIE Advanced/x1 + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles (4 shots now) would be way too powerful, though.

Or whenever you fire a missile/torpedo, perform the attack twice? TIE Advanced/x1 + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles (4 shots now) would be way too powerful, though.

That combo doesn't actually work though, since /x1 requires the TL and Cluster needs you to spend it.

You'd need to add Deadeye!

/x1 is just the title that gives you a system slot, thus accuracy corrector.

Or whenever you fire a missile/torpedo, perform the attack twice? TIE Advanced/x1 + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles (4 shots now) would be way too powerful, though.

That combo doesn't actually work though, since /x1 requires the TL and Cluster needs you to spend it.

You'd need to add Deadeye!

You're thinking about Advanced Targeting Computer.

Yeah, requiring an action to do what you're proposing is self-defeating. I can see them doing it with a simple title or modification, which would be fairly costed around 2-3 points, bringing some of the better ordnance in line with HLC. On the other hand, some of the ordnance does almost the exact same thing as a few of the cannons, so the redundancy would make for something of an inelegant solution, balance wise.

There are a ton of suggested ideas for fixing ordnance. Too many are complicated or convoluted, or won't even be enough.

If nothing is done to the potency of the single use upgrades, the simplest solutions fall into one of a few categories:

A. Price drop. Clearly the single shot is not worth 4+ points. Worth also is heavily dependent on the target and the attackers primary being replaced. A missed attack is worth nothing. An attack that deals little more than a primary is worth little. High agility defenders will be the targets where the ordnance makes a bigger difference, but also has a higher chance of missing. Low agility targets will not be as greatly affected, where doing possibly 1 point extra of damage is worth little compared to the health pool.

B. Even with a reload, depending on how difficult the mechanic makes reuse, could make it worth it, but an analysis could be done to figure out how many uses would be needed to cover the cost. If it comes to any more than twice, I doubt it would see much use outside very survivable ships that more easily deliver torps like corran horn. I'd be leery of a reload action as you are now sacrificing an action to target lock, and an action to reload, and still need the right range to fire. Most ships will then be firing ordnance every other turn and not modifying their primary in between.

C. Making ordnance more effective. Your idea might be feasible, the ordnance has more value if it isn't replacing an attack.The crucial question is still whether the ordnance is worth its points.

Well, we know what the problem with ordnance is right now; it doesn't provide enough value you for what you're purchasing. That means the fix is going to somehow involve increasing that value, whether by making ordnance cheaper (probably not enough on its own), or giving you more for what you already pay. Reversing or mitigating the drain on action economy is probably going to be the very first step they take. I suspect we may see new ordnance that benefits you if you have a target lock, rather than restricting you to having one in the first place. Something like "you may roll one additional attack die if you have a target lock on the defending ship."

Rather than guess at the potential fixes, let me ask you guys this: what would a disposable upgrade have to do to make you want to invest points in it?

I thin 4 points needs to produce a powerful, consistently usable attack. The attack is already powerful, it's just not very usable. I expect a mod or title that makes acquiring target locks easier, so your action can be a focus for further boosting attack or used for defense.

Does it have to be consistently usable, though? Assault Missiles has its place, just not in every game, and maybe not even in 100 point games. I've used other missiles a fair number of times on Vader, always with satisfactory results. I don't think it's their disposable nature that's a major hurdle for ordnance, it's their value, which is further impacted by the restrictions placed on them. When wave 3 was first spoiled, there were many of us who immediately wanted to try and break Advanced Proton Torpedoes. Unfortunately, there was no good way to do that without investing a substantial number of points - too many to make it viable - so it got shelved. Without those restrictions, though, you're looking at a card that has the potential to one-shot almost any small base ship, and I think that's worth something, even if you only get one use out of it.

Edit: I thought you were talking along the sames lines as the reusable ordnance subject. If you meant something else by "consistently usable," I apologize.

Something with longer than average range.

Honestly, I know it wont be a thing, but being able to have bombers engage ships before they start coming under fire would be a good use of points. Currently I need to inch my way into range three to grab a target lock, and then either save it to get the focus next round, or snap-fire off my stuff. If I go for option B, they are usually going to be in range one, in my face, if they are a better than average player, trying to kill the poor bomber before it comes around to it's pilot skill.

We're likely to find out the ordnance fix tomorrow. Strikes me as unlikely there'd be no article, and I can't see them leaving out the goal of the wave.

We're likely to find out the ordnance fix tomorrow.

Maybe. If not tomorrow, then two weeks from then.

Something with longer than average range.

Honestly, I know it wont be a thing, but being able to have bombers engage ships before they start coming under fire would be a good use of points. Currently I need to inch my way into range three to grab a target lock, and then either save it to get the focus next round, or snap-fire off my stuff. If I go for option B, they are usually going to be in range one, in my face, if they are a better than average player, trying to kill the poor bomber before it comes around to it's pilot skill.

Extending the range is a good idea, I think, but overlaps too much with Rhymer's ability. There are also logistical issues to extending beyond range 3 that should be obvious to everyone at this point.

By consistently usable, I meant that the shot isn't much harder to use than primary weapons. You don't want 4 point shots in the tubes when a ship dies. If the actual weapon profile doesn't match up with your target, that's a list building decision.

Well, we know what the problem with ordnance is right now; it doesn't provide enough value you for what you're purchasing. That means the fix is going to somehow involve increasing that value, whether by making ordnance cheaper (probably not enough on its own), or giving you more for what you already pay. Reversing or mitigating the drain on action economy is probably going to be the very first step they take. I suspect we may see new ordnance that benefits you if you have a target lock, rather than restricting you to having one in the first place. Something like "you may roll one additional attack die if you have a target lock on the defending ship."

Rather than guess at the potential fixes, let me ask you guys this: what would a disposable upgrade have to do to make you want to invest points in it?

The one I'd want is a price reduction. Proton torpedoes, in my opinion should be 1-2 points if nothing else changes about them. I'd be fine with target locks being spent to fire so long as the attack is priced accordingly.

A few ideas I've had recently:

Long Range Seekers, Modification: Ship may target lock at any range if target is within the ship's firing arc. This target lock may only be used for Missile or Torpedo attacks.

-This gives low PS ships the ability to alpha strike with their shots, instead of waiting to the 2nd turn of shooting when they may be dead or at the improper range. It helps the action economy, also. Additional restrictions may be needed.

Automatic Targeting Computer, Modification: After movement, this ship may gain a free target lock on a ship that was in its firing arc before and after this ship's movement. This target lock may only be used to for Missile or Torpedo attacks.

-This is much better on low PS than high PS, because they know where the board will be when they plan movement, but it works for any ship on an attack run (and encourages attack runs for using Ordnance).

I think either Modification should be 0-1 points, because they only work on Ordnance, and Ordnance is priced so high at the moment. Both have restrictions on their Target Lock usage, however, so there's arguably a record-keeping issue, but there's likely a way around this that I haven't thought of in the last 5 minutes.

A few ideas I've had recently:

Long Range Seekers, Modification: Ship may target lock at any range if target is within the ship's firing arc. This target lock may only be used for Missile or Torpedo attacks.

-This gives low PS ships the ability to alpha strike with their shots, instead of waiting to the 2nd turn of shooting when they may be dead or at the improper range. It helps the action economy, also. Additional restrictions may be needed.

Automatic Targeting Computer, Modification: After movement, this ship may gain a free target lock on a ship that was in its firing arc before and after this ship's movement. This target lock may only be used to for Missile or Torpedo attacks.

-This is much better on low PS than high PS, because they know where the board will be when they plan movement, but it works for any ship on an attack run (and encourages attack runs for using Ordnance).

I think either Modification should be 0-1 points, because they only work on Ordnance, and Ordnance is priced so high at the moment. Both have restrictions on their Target Lock usage, however, so there's arguably a record-keeping issue, but there's likely a way around this that I haven't thought of in the last 5 minutes.

-2 points and I think you are on to something

Okay, so what other speculations for the K-wing action cane we come up with. We got the reload and we got the extra attack.

I would guess it has something to do with torpedo or missile weapons since it is on the K-wing after all.

Would love to see little missile tokens and missile dials to chase ships around the board. Give each missile a set number of turns it can maneuver before it goes ballistic or self-destructs. So, the short-ranged ones have one or two turns to maneuver into the target, and the long-ranged ones have 3-5 turns. Give them a proximity fuse, so they maybe don't have to overlap, just get within range 1 or something. That would be cool.

Or whenever you fire a missile/torpedo, perform the attack twice? TIE Advanced/x1 + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles (4 shots now) would be way too powerful, though.

That combo doesn't actually work though, since /x1 requires the TL and Cluster needs you to spend it.

You'd need to add Deadeye!

You're thinking about Advanced Targeting Computer.

Yes, I was. My bad.

The deadeye + Adv.Targeting Cpu combo will give more damage output that accuracy corrector though