In my defence - I am a massive fan and will still get the book when it is released - The point I am trying to make is that FFG need to be better with realistic release dates - they make high quality products and have a great website to support there business - but I feel that they just let people down with release schedules and dates.

UncleArkie said:

UncleArkie said:

I never ordered one. Sure, it'd be nice but I can't justify it to the wife.

Just a question... Does anyone (who doesn't have the book) have a problem with the Collector's Edition people getting their books before the General Public? I don't. I mean, they're paying $100+ for it. I read somewhere (I think it was the CE forum) that FFG's idea that shipping them all at the same time would eliminate any hard feelings or cries of unfairness that some lucky few had the book whilst the plebians did not.

Speculation of course, but I find it incredibly ironic...

I'm still going to the game store today but I have little hopes that FFG shipped it yet. I need some paint anyway.

I just wish for a little communication is all. Will Ross or Stewart at least announce when it's shipping? Or do I have to keep trekking across town and bugging my retailer until he's banned me from his store for being annoying?

DENZ said:

LOL.

"Hey FGG, think you can get away with vague release dates? Will take this!

...my money for my copy of Rogue Trader. "

I don't think it's fair to blame FFG for dissapointing release dates and push backs when they probably get unrealistic dates to have to try and finish a new core rulebook for a game, ya dig?

DENZ said:

DENZ said:

That's what you should have said the first time! But apparently I'm guilty too of the snide, bitter comments. I feel you though.

Mazinkaiser, the release date is "Fall". Well, it's now "Fall".

Other companies give firmer release dates and other companies deliver the goods when they say they will.

This whole issue will go away once they finally ship it, but it all boils down to that this is a business problem which they need to solve. They need to identify their process procedures, review them and make improvements. We don't expect FFG to hit the mark every time, but this is reoccuring issue with them.

Granted, I'm not in the game industry, but product is product. If we did this to our customers on a regular basis we'd have no customers.

The problem isn't that they haven't shipped it yet. The problem is lack of communication with the customers about it. I don't feel abused by FFG, merely neglected.

Rational or not, it's the way a lot of us feel and will affect whether or not I purchase other games I might be interested like AT-43, Call of Cthulhu or Tannhauser.

If you really want to put "blame" somewhere, put it on the price-gouging corporate suits at GW and their anal-retentive IP which revolves around making your minis obsolete so you'll have to buy more. Rogue Trader the RPG should have been out 5, 10...15 YEARS ago. We should be waiting on the 3rd or 4th edition, not the first.

I've taken a different approach to the long wait for Rogue Trader - I've stopped caring. It now occupies that vague category of "Stuff which I would like which may eventually be released" alongside Alien 5, a sub-£200 PS3 and a version of 40K that brings back some of the complexity of 2nd Edition.

Rogue Trader looks good. I can certainly see the influences of other RPGs in the designer diaries we've seen, but rather than chomping at the bit I just ignore it. I have no pre-order because I'm in no massive hurry to get the game, the only thing I'd be anxious for would be a custom-named collector's edition, which they've sold out of anyway, so what's the point in stressing out over two weeks?

I have the rest of my life to buy Rogue Trader, In the meantime there are plenty of other things to occupy me.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Nope. I got my Dark Heresy collector's edition a full month before official release, so it would be churlish to object.

It does seem a little off that people who got a copy at Gencon got to have theirs before the CE-buyers though - I would have sent out the CEs, then done Gencon, then sent out the regular pre-orders.

ObiWanClousseau said:

Oops!

Yeah, that's me. Sorry, ObiWan. Point well taken.

ObiWanClousseau said:

I do, thanks for noticing. ;-)

ObiWanClousseau said:

My stance has always been that if you have a problem with a company, write them a letter, an EECB, call customer service, take it to the BBB or the Consumerist. It's more professional and productive.

Anyway, I'll be nice. When the books comes out we'll all have to band together to confound our players or outwit our GMs. And in the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, blah blah blah.

Once the book is out, this topic about RT isn't gonna come up again anyway.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Actualy it's still summer; fall begins september 22. So, technicaly, the book still has a long way to go before it's late ;-)

Graver said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notes the changing of the seasons based on the soltices and equinoces.

Then again, if FFG is using the academic calendar to note the changing seasons, they are late...

I've pre-ordered books from other company, that have been late - real late - and then showed up beat to hell, or just plain poor quality -- Conan 2nd edition from mongoose anyone? It was so warped they shrink wrapped it to keep it straight and when I unwrapped it, it exploded!!!...LOL, they did send me a very nice quality replacement 3 months later and whole bunch of hassle, but even that replacement isn't as nice as the FFG stuff. I'm not going to get all high and mighty because I really don't care as long as I get it before the end of the year and it's uber quality, but for the folks that don't have a ton of other games to play and have put all thier eggs in this basket, at least knowing when they are going to get it would help.

Veronus

Other companies give firmer release dates and other companies deliver the goods when they say they will.

Maybe I've been playing too many PC games, but whenever one of these comes out in time, it's riddled with bugs. I much prefer Blizzard's "when it's done " policy.

This whole issue will go away once they finally ship it, but it all boils down to that this is a business problem which they need to solve. They need to identify their process procedures, review them and make improvements. We don't expect FFG to hit the mark every time, but this is reoccuring issue with them.

Granted, I'm not in the game industry, but product is product. If we did this to our customers on a regular basis we'd have no customers.

So... your customers, do they by any chance have a binding contract with you where you specify the product's release date? Because FFG and us... don't.

And "product is product" sounds like a gross oversimplification. Do you know the rather tight margins of the RPG "industry"? Granted, I can only talk about the german RPG makers, but at least over here, RPG designers are in no danger to become rich too soon. Roleplaying games are a niche market that doesn't make too much money - guess why GW eliminated Black Industries!
If you want an RPG industry that becomes as reliable as, say, electronics manufacturers, hook up half a milliard people more to the hobby and we may be talking.

Finally, I fail to see any overstepping in release time here - they said "Fall 2009". In most industries, that translates to "Be happy if it's there before the 21st of December".

Cifer said:

Didn't the company making Duke Nukem Forever use the exact same response? And look what happened to that game!

To any FFG staff or such reading this thread... I'm not mad at you, and I can wait for the game happily. Woot.

Oh! Trust me they know that we are waiting with bated breath and that the lot of us will swarm our FLGS when it comes out or send long gutripping letters to Amazon or B&N ect if we don't get it the same date as the guy who lives right next to the dispatch center or what not. I mean we are discussing the release date of a book, getting riled up so much that more level headed members of the community have to step in and ask folks to play nice, we are what we are and I think its a minority of us that won't spring for at least the core book.

Cervantes3773 said:

Dude. Not cool. While I may not share the OP's sentiment on waiting, I feel their frustration. Where else are they going to vent? They're 100% allowed to do so and they didn't insult anyone. Attacking each other doesn't help. I mean, many of us have had "That Day" and want to rant about it with others in the same boat.

As far as Shadowrun goes, it's a great game that meshed two divergent concepts and did it well. If they cancelled RT in favor or SR, I'd be pissed as to me, both are cool and deserve space on my shelf.

Veronus said:

Please allow me to derail the thread and mention that I'm amazed that Mongoose is still around. It almost seems as if crappiness is their schtick.

I too am fed up with waiting. However much it hurts though , these recent "updates" by the dev's ease the anxiety.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Well in thier defence the game is still not "Done," they never finished it before the company had to give it up. It could have been worse, like a Superman game worse.

Inquisitor Huntingmoon said:

But really. The development started in 1997, and continued until 2009 until the company ran out of patience. That's 12 years, for one single game!

I could have accepted that if they spent like six or seven years writing a really epic storyline which would move players to tears, but come on, it's Duke Nukem we're talking about, not the most serious character in gaming history, and not the most serious setting either (the Serious Sam franchise have obviously hogged those titles ). That means the development team had 12 years to fidget around with graphis and programing alone, it really shouldn't take that long.

If they had just chosen one gaming engine and simply stuck with it, rather than changing it during development a gazillion times, the game would've been finished years ago.

Im sorry, I just can't see much defending a development team taking that long to finish one game. In fact, if I ran the company I would have shut them down a lot sooner than 12 years.

I've kind acdcepted the fact that it will arrive when it does... the only problem I now have is that they took the money out of my account for the Collectors Edition some 2 or 3 weeks ago.

No offence but I'd rather that £100 be sat in my accounht until it's ready to be despatched than sat in someone elses accoun while I have nothing to show for it...

Obviously dependig where you bought it and what country you're in the price will vary, but for arguments sake let's just say they sold 100 copies at £70 each. Thats 70k sat in their bank earning interest while the rest of us sit here twiddling our thumbs with nothing to show for it.

That's the problem I have, but hey, what does my opinion count in the big wide world...

..or should I say 7k sat in their bank.

TalkingMuffin said:

I've never had any issues with anything I've gotten from Mongoose - none of the old Starship Troopers stuff (RPG and tabletop game alike) or their more recent Traveller stuff has demonstrated any issues like that described.